RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma

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CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:09:25 PM)
quote: such as smoking inside public buildings needs to be restricted for the public good, people with allergies to cigarettes and other respiratory ailments have a right to public spaces too... Ok, and can you give me some rational argument for not being allowed to smoke in your own private car...??? Because those laws are in place in several states now. Where does it stop. Will laws be put into place to keep me from smoking in the apartment I pay rent for, because my name isn't on the deed????

pahunkboy -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:09:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do get it, if they wanted to sell me arsenic as Vitamin C you would see nothing wrong with that... buyer beware.... I agree that we need more laws to regulate these fuckers that would seek to harm our health... not less laws as you are advocating (I apologize in advance for the rant -- I just lost my right to milk produced by my own goat by the Texas government after they declared my boarding/tending/milking arrangement to be an "animal share" and illegal in TX, because I have them bred and milked out on a farm, and I live in the city!!!) I don't think anyone here is advocating that companies that practice bad business should get away scot free --- in fact, I advocate dissolving the "corporate person", so that individuals who own shares in a company that damages other people or property with its business practices are liable for the penalties therein. However, I -don't- think the government should have any say in what I put in my body when and where... PERIOD. If I want to drink raw milk, that is illegal in most states in the US -- how ridiculous is that? When I was growing up, I worked on a dairy farm and drank raw cows milk every single day for nearly 15 years. Now, in order to be able to live running a dairy and sell one's milk, the government seals up the farmer's tanks and requires that they milk by machine, so that the milk has to go to the processor and the farmer has to buy it back at RETAIL to get the milk that they produce themselves. What kind of crap is that? My body is mine. If I want to trash it, that's my business. It only becomes the government's business if I trash myself in a way that damages someone ELSE or someone else's property (like drinking and driving). While, in general, I have been in favor of single-payer insurance, I have to admit that one of my concerns, seeing the willingness of our government to cast away individual freedoms as soon as some special-interest group leans hard enough on them, is that single-payer insurance would become an excuse to legislate every single action that we take -- and then what are we but government puppets? If I have to sacrifice single-payer insurance (or -any- insurance) to keep my freedom about how I choose to heal myself or treat myself, I'm all good with that. Of course, we know I'm a renegade, so I'll just keep my own counsel, and find my own Coventry, should the Regulation Nation get its way and regulate us into perfectly controlled little carbon copies of each other. Oh man what a post! You should be able to grow and drink raw milk. They are harassing the Amish around here and I find it chilling. It is hard to know if such is only a matter of $ greed or if it is even more sinister. The government produces nothing. It merely redistrubutes the fruit of others toil.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:10:28 PM)
quote: the thing is- what works in one locale may or may not work in another locale. all politics is local. I support local control. maybe they need to slam people in jail over in UK- but we do not here. not for this. the infraction is civil-- (IMO) not criminal. we very much have to be careful as to what we allow any govt to do. People suffer from asthma in every state People suffer from emphysema in every state People suffer from allergies in every state Complications to airborne exposure to certain allergen are respiratory infections... all because someone wants to smoke up a joint and not respect other people's rights for better air quality. This question totally impacts my health... it is not some airy fairy debate of no importance to me. As I type this post I am on several different medications to control my allergies because what I thought was the flu turned out to be something else... I am sensitive to airborne pollutants to the point they incapacitate me if I do not control it 24-7... and some pollutants make me sick no matter what I take... tobacco is one such pollutant.. it is why I quit smoking, and I am not alone. Why should people have the freedom to make the air so toxic that their fellow human beings either have to stay home all the time or have to take antibiotics just to share space with them? If you can come up with one good justification for allowing people to smoke in public buildings when they can haul their smoking asses outside, I could entertain it perhaps. I have thought of applying at the University of Chicago, but I would be spending a lot of time at home by myself if I do, seeing I can't handle smoker pollution

LadyEllen -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:11:59 PM)
It seems to me that there might well be sufficient support for an outright ban; 1) clearly smokers are stupid (they score lower on IQ tests) and need the law to make them realise their error and control them 2) smokers also come predominantly from lower socio-economic groups who can least afford the heavy taxes on tobacco, so this would represent an immediate financial boost to their situations which can go into pensions to pay for their extended longevity - or better, cuts in welfare payments proportionate to the cost of a pack a day 3) a ban would also reduce the wanker ratio in the population as a whole 4) and help to overthrow the NWO (or support it, as you prefer) 5) and once we've got a ban in place we can move on to alcohol, another socially damaging addictive substance peddled by evildoers and consumed by the stupid peasantry who then go on to cause serious health, safety and security issues for the rest of the peasantry under its influence 6) and we can increase other taxes on everyone to make up the shortfall of £37 million a day in tax revenues from tobacco; £1.25 per day for everyone in the workforce, but with a bit of creative accounting we could make it at least double that 7) but at no stage will we consider any limitation on the exhaust emissions of buses and trucks, because reducing diesel consumption taxes would really hit the coffers. Neither will we seek to control the highly profitable low grade shit that enters the food chain and causes obesity, along with its attendant health problems and vast (and unfunded) costs to the public purse Only one question though, should the ban apply to those of us in the top five percent of IQ and income, or just the dim witted peasants whom we employ or otherwise subsidise through welfare paid with our business taxes? E

pahunkboy -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:12:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic so you can not pay a fine in the US and not get further shit ?? theres no come back if you dont pay a court appointed fine or appear in court if ordered?? ya right not talking about smoking per se, as I am an ex smoker now(six months) but I still think the guy shouldnt get jail, but in reality, he didnt pay a fine, showed contempt for court, he isnt gonna get way from it. a parking ticket can go- 20 years and never be paid. jail is for ciminal act- not civil law mis acts.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:13:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: such as smoking inside public buildings needs to be restricted for the public good, people with allergies to cigarettes and other respiratory ailments have a right to public spaces too... Ok, and can you give me some rational argument for not being allowed to smoke in your own private car...??? Because those laws are in place in several states now. Where does it stop. Will laws be put into place to keep me from smoking in the apartment I pay rent for, because my name isn't on the deed???? Your kids health should be motivation enough... I didn't smoke in my house or my car after my son was born... but you know, I thought his right to clean air superseded my right to puff on cancer sticks...

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:14:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic so you can not pay a fine in the US and not get further shit ?? theres no come back if you dont pay a court appointed fine or appear in court if ordered?? ya right not talking about smoking per se, as I am an ex smoker now(six months) but I still think the guy shouldnt get jail, but in reality, he didnt pay a fine, showed contempt for court, he isnt gonna get way from it. a parking ticket can go- 20 years and never be paid. jail is for ciminal act- not civil law mis acts. Although, to be accurate, here, PA, if you state, in front of the judge, that you're not going to pay the fine, they -will- slap your butt in jail for contempt.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:15:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: As a former smoker that realizes how cigarette companies get customers, influencing them to smoke before reaching adulthood, well no, they don't come to your door beating you up for quitting, but they sure as hell had a hand in getting you to start in the first place. Bullshit. I -chose- to start smoking. I saw others doing it, thought it looked cool, and actually had to WORK to start smoking, while my body retched and hacked... I was 15 years old, and old enough to know that it was (1) not a good thing... I'd had plenty of people including my parents tell me so, and (2) would "stunt my growth and shorten my life"... again... LOTS of input telling me what to do to avoid those problems. You know what... I DIDN'T CARE. I wanted the experience. It seemed interesting to me, and looked like fun, so I did it... and when it turned out not to be so much fun, it was plain old stubbornness that got me through -- personal choice... "I -am- going to learn how to smoke these things!" Most of the problems in this country come from people who are unwilling to take personal responsibility for their bad choices, and try to find someone else to pawn it off on. I do not think that minors are old enough to consent to engaging in an addictive habit.... most people agree with me, and this is why we have smoking laws for minors....

pahunkboy -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:15:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: the thing is- what works in one locale may or may not work in another locale. all politics is local. I support local control. maybe they need to slam people in jail over in UK- but we do not here. not for this. the infraction is civil-- (IMO) not criminal. we very much have to be careful as to what we allow any govt to do. People suffer from asthma in every state People suffer from emphysema in every state People suffer from allergies in every state Complications to airborne exposure to certain allergen are respiratory infections... all because someone wants to smoke up a joint and not respect other people's rights for better air quality. This question totally impacts my health... it is not some airy fairy debate of no importance to me. As I type this post I am on several different medications to control my allergies because what I thought was the flu turned out to be something else... I am sensitive to airborne pollutants to the point they incapacitate me if I do not control it 24-7... and some pollutants make me sick no matter what I take... tobacco is one such pollutant.. it is why I quit smoking, and I am not alone. Why should people have the freedom to make the air so toxic that their fellow human beings either have to stay home all the time or have to take antibiotics just to share space with them? If you can come up with one good justification for allowing people to smoke in public buildings when they can haul their smoking asses outside, I could entertain it perhaps. I have thought of applying at the University of Chicago, but I would be spending a lot of time at home by myself if I do, seeing I can't handle smoker pollution Do you think I like living on a busy street? I can reach out and touch the traffic. The noise and smog is 24-7. No one goes the speed limit- few have a proper muffler- and people toss liter out that I then must pick up. I HATE this rotten busy street. i wish I could move.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:16:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Your kids health should be motivation enough... I didn't smoke in my house or my car after my son was born... but you know, I thought his right to clean air superseded my right to puff on cancer sticks... My kids are grown and gone. I didn't smoke when my kids were at home -at all-... in the house, in the car, or even in secret. So I should still be subject to draconian laws because someone else has kids and can't handle their personal life enough to not smoke where it can tox out their kids???

kittinSol -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:16:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW Ok, and can you give me some rational argument for not being allowed to smoke in your own private car...??? If the car is used to transport children, who have no say in anything, refraining from smoking should be the humane thing to do. But guess what? For us, it took a court of law and a judge to enforce such common sense, because the adults in question insisted on smoking in the car, with the windows closed, with children that suffer from terrible asthma and allergies. So many adults are too selfish to take into consideration the health and wellbeing of those that are smaller than themselves [>:] .

pahunkboy -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:17:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic so you can not pay a fine in the US and not get further shit ?? theres no come back if you dont pay a court appointed fine or appear in court if ordered?? ya right not talking about smoking per se, as I am an ex smoker now(six months) but I still think the guy shouldnt get jail, but in reality, he didnt pay a fine, showed contempt for court, he isnt gonna get way from it. a parking ticket can go- 20 years and never be paid. jail is for ciminal act- not civil law mis acts. Although, to be accurate, here, PA, if you state, in front of the judge, that you're not going to pay the fine, they -will- slap your butt in jail for contempt. Yup. That is true.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:17:21 PM)
quote: Will laws be put into place to keep me from smoking in the apartment I pay rent for, because my name isn't on the deed???? If the landlord has it as a part of the lease that you will not smoke, well you should respect your lease... This is increasingly on many leases in my state... another thing I am happy about...smoking destroys private property and is costly to repair in some instances where it gets embedded in the drywall.

Moonhead -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:17:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic so you can not pay a fine in the US and not get further shit ?? theres no come back if you dont pay a court appointed fine or appear in court if ordered?? ya right not talking about smoking per se, as I am an ex smoker now(six months) but I still think the guy shouldnt get jail, but in reality, he didnt pay a fine, showed contempt for court, he isnt gonna get way from it. a parking ticket can go- 20 years and never be paid. jail is for ciminal act- not civil law mis acts. In American law, perhaps, but didn't you start the thread whining about how the UK is the Conspiracy's bitch, unlike you armed free Americans who can't smoke in their own cars in some states? (You're not legally required to meet HSE regulations on homegrown produce over here either, come to that...)

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:19:14 PM)
quote: My kids are grown and gone. I didn't smoke when my kids were at home -at all-... in the house, in the car, or even in secret. So I should still be subject to draconian laws because someone else has kids and can't handle their personal life enough to not smoke where it can tox out their kids??? I have no comment on that because I have no knowledge of those laws... I haven't seen them to be honest... We have laws against txting, eating, talking on cellphones when driving because these activities are distracting, perhaps that is the rationale.

pahunkboy -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:20:01 PM)
side note: I buy silver coins off of ebay. I can always tell the ones who come from a smoking house.

Moonhead -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:21:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: Calla, so you don't think that filling a pub (or bar, restaurant, office, whatever) with cigarette fumes is imposing your self abuse on anybody else? I can take your point, but you don't seem to be following it through very rigorously. Actually, I've always taken personal responsibility for this stuff, and never smoked in restaurants, train stations, etc... Bars, I -have- smoked in, and my philosophy on that is, if I don't want to deal with ADULTS who smoke in an adult venue, then maybe I need to find an outdoor bar (which I do often, choosing IceHouse-style, outdoor bar venues rather than enclosed ones), or skip the bar scene. Fair enough, but can you get your head around the counter argument that it might be nice for non smokers to have somewhere they can go for a drink in February?

Moonhead -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:23:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy side note: I buy silver coins off of ebay. I can always tell the ones who come from a smoking house. I'd suggest you sell your collection and move, myself. Land and property are going to be worth a lot more than gold and silver after the economy collapses, and they're less of an attraction to muggers as well.

pahunkboy -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:23:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic so you can not pay a fine in the US and not get further shit ?? theres no come back if you dont pay a court appointed fine or appear in court if ordered?? ya right not talking about smoking per se, as I am an ex smoker now(six months) but I still think the guy shouldnt get jail, but in reality, he didnt pay a fine, showed contempt for court, he isnt gonna get way from it. a parking ticket can go- 20 years and never be paid. jail is for ciminal act- not civil law mis acts. In American law, perhaps, but didn't you start the thread whining about how the UK is the Conspiracy's bitch, unlike you armed free Americans who can't smoke in their own cars in some states? (You're not legally required to meet HSE regulations on homegrown produce over here either, come to that...) we could come to fricken CODEX. McCain wants to undo DUSHEA. The city of london has a huge part on the NWO BS. and the sun never sets on the British Empire. So - lets not fake like UK is a colony when it is really under the control of the federal reserve central banks.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:24:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: Calla, so you don't think that filling a pub (or bar, restaurant, office, whatever) with cigarette fumes is imposing your self abuse on anybody else? I can take your point, but you don't seem to be following it through very rigorously. Actually, I've always taken personal responsibility for this stuff, and never smoked in restaurants, train stations, etc... Bars, I -have- smoked in, and my philosophy on that is, if I don't want to deal with ADULTS who smoke in an adult venue, then maybe I need to find an outdoor bar (which I do often, choosing IceHouse-style, outdoor bar venues rather than enclosed ones), or skip the bar scene. Fair enough, but can you get your head around the counter argument that it might be nice for non smokers to have somewhere they can go for a drink in February? I love California... I can go out to any bar and not be inundated with other people's nasty bad habits that harm everyone else... nothing worse than getting dressed up and having my clothes smell like an ashtray at the end of the night.. and who is going to pay for the dry cleaner... me! I have a conference to go to in Reno again this spring... I made sure I wouldn't be staying at a casino like I had to last year.... it took me a month to get over that.

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