RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai

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pahunkboy -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:25:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy side note: I buy silver coins off of ebay. I can always tell the ones who come from a smoking house. I'd suggest you sell your collection and move, myself. Land and property are going to be worth a lot more than land and silver after the economy collapses, and they're less of an attraction to muggers as well. I am stuck here for now. I dont quite have a big enough stack yet- to make a piece of property trade. figure 5 years before I am to that point- maybe even 10.

Moonhead -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:27:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic so you can not pay a fine in the US and not get further shit ?? theres no come back if you dont pay a court appointed fine or appear in court if ordered?? ya right not talking about smoking per se, as I am an ex smoker now(six months) but I still think the guy shouldnt get jail, but in reality, he didnt pay a fine, showed contempt for court, he isnt gonna get way from it. a parking ticket can go- 20 years and never be paid. jail is for ciminal act- not civil law mis acts. In American law, perhaps, but didn't you start the thread whining about how the UK is the Conspiracy's bitch, unlike you armed free Americans who can't smoke in their own cars in some states? (You're not legally required to meet HSE regulations on homegrown produce over here either, come to that...) we could come to fricken CODEX. McCain wants to undo DUSHEA. The city of london has a huge part on the NWO BS. and the sun never sets on the British Empire. So - lets not fake like UK is a colony when it is really under the control of the federal reserve central banks. I hate to be the one to tell you this, mate, but the sun set on the British empire shortly after the first world war. As for the colony thing, pull the other one it's got bells on. Every Prime Minister we've had since the late '70s has had their foreign policy dictated by whichever cretin you people voted into power. About the only argument you could make for that is the Bank Of England lending money to the American banks when they boracic at the start of last year, and they've got fuck all out of doing that.

Moonhead -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:30:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy side note: I buy silver coins off of ebay. I can always tell the ones who come from a smoking house. I'd suggest you sell your collection and move, myself. Land and property are going to be worth a lot more than gold and silver after the economy collapses, and they're less of an attraction to muggers as well. I am stuck here for now. I dont quite have a big enough stack yet- to make a piece of property trade. figure 5 years before I am to that point- maybe even 10. Are you sure the imminent collapse will leave you five or ten year's grace to do that? The way you talk on here it's any day now.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:30:37 PM)
quote: Do you think I like living on a busy street? I can reach out and touch the traffic. The noise and smog is 24-7. No one goes the speed limit- few have a proper muffler- and people toss liter out that I then must pick up. I HATE this rotten busy street. i wish I could move. I wish you could move too, it would be nice to reduce the unnecessary pollution, which is a good reason to advocate for less cars on busy roads by decreasing emissions, increasing public transportation, etc. In other words better regulation....

Moonhead -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:33:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Do you think I like living on a busy street? I can reach out and touch the traffic. The noise and smog is 24-7. No one goes the speed limit- few have a proper muffler- and people toss liter out that I then must pick up. I HATE this rotten busy street. i wish I could move. I wish you could move too, it would be nice to reduce the unnecessary pollution, which is a good reason to advocate for less cars on busy roads by decreasing emissions, increasing public transportation, etc. In other words better regulation.... Hush your mouth: that's ZOG talk.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:34:25 PM)
quote: ZOG quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Do you think I like living on a busy street? I can reach out and touch the traffic. The noise and smog is 24-7. No one goes the speed limit- few have a proper muffler- and people toss liter out that I then must pick up. I HATE this rotten busy street. i wish I could move. I wish you could move too, it would be nice to reduce the unnecessary pollution, which is a good reason to advocate for less cars on busy roads by decreasing emissions, increasing public transportation, etc. In other words better regulation.... Hush your mouth: that's ZOG talk. Oh yeah.,... that's me[:-]

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 1:41:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen It seems to me that there might well be sufficient support for an outright ban; 1) clearly smokers are stupid (they score lower on IQ tests) and need the law to make them realise their error and control them 2) smokers also come predominantly from lower socio-economic groups who can least afford the heavy taxes on tobacco, so this would represent an immediate financial boost to their situations which can go into pensions to pay for their extended longevity - or better, cuts in welfare payments proportionate to the cost of a pack a day 3) a ban would also reduce the wanker ratio in the population as a whole 4) and help to overthrow the NWO (or support it, as you prefer) 5) and once we've got a ban in place we can move on to alcohol, another socially damaging addictive substance peddled by evildoers and consumed by the stupid peasantry who then go on to cause serious health, safety and security issues for the rest of the peasantry under its influence 6) and we can increase other taxes on everyone to make up the shortfall of £37 million a day in tax revenues from tobacco; £1.25 per day for everyone in the workforce, but with a bit of creative accounting we could make it at least double that 7) but at no stage will we consider any limitation on the exhaust emissions of buses and trucks, because reducing diesel consumption taxes would really hit the coffers. Neither will we seek to control the highly profitable low grade shit that enters the food chain and causes obesity, along with its attendant health problems and vast (and unfunded) costs to the public purse Only one question though, should the ban apply to those of us in the top five percent of IQ and income, or just the dim witted peasants whom we employ or otherwise subsidise through welfare paid with our business taxes? E Actually I think that the taxes levied on smokers are unjust, which is why eliminating ciggies is the best alternative to taxing people for smoking... I also would advocate to take pollutants out of food... I would also want to decrease emissions on cars... the two are not mutually exclusive, are they? My son has asthma, the asthma rates are growing because of toxic air pollutants... we need to reduce ALL of them. It would mean a happier healthier society... As far as illegalizing alcohol.. I do not drink much, but alcohol has been argued to have some health benefit and even though it can be addictive, it is not addictive in the same way as ciggies are...

Moonhead -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:45:34 PM)
The guys you see drinking meths under a railway bridge aren't just putting away a couple of glasses of red a day as an anticoagulant, Julia.

pahunkboy -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:49:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy side note: I buy silver coins off of ebay. I can always tell the ones who come from a smoking house. I'd suggest you sell your collection and move, myself. Land and property are going to be worth a lot more than gold and silver after the economy collapses, and they're less of an attraction to muggers as well. I am stuck here for now. I dont quite have a big enough stack yet- to make a piece of property trade. figure 5 years before I am to that point- maybe even 10. Are you sure the imminent collapse will leave you five or ten year's grace to do that? The way you talk on here it's any day now. I know I have at least a few years. If I get greedy and impatient- I will have nothing. If I am strategic and methodical- I will be able to make a move- but not this year- not next year.

pahunkboy -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 1:51:32 PM)
Breathing trouble is no fun. I have scars on both lungs- so I have my moments. While I don't have asthma- I am sensitive to any type of smells.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 2:07:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Fair enough, but can you get your head around the counter argument that it might be nice for non smokers to have somewhere they can go for a drink in February? You know, before the legislation, there were half a dozen restaurants and clubs in our neighborhood alone that were smoke-free (admittedly, I live in a large city), without any legislation requiring it. There was at least one Country-Western club, and one dance club that I know of because I spent time in them, and two family restaurants and a health-food restaurant, and a Continental restaurant that were also 100% smoke-free. My thing is, even in a small town or city, if people want a smoke-free establishment, work with the management of the club. If there are enough customers in that venue to support a smoke-free environment, then the place will probably go smoke-free, without legislation--as a force of the market. Legislation on things like this are nothing more than enforcing one's own choices or moral code on someone else -- and to -me- that kind of stripping freedom in the interest of conformity is a crime.

Moonhead -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 2:12:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW Legislation on things like this are nothing more than enforcing one's own choices or moral code on someone else -- and to -me- that kind of stripping freedom in the interest of conformity is a crime. How is letting ten or fifteen percent of the customers fill the premises with smoke not doing that?

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 2:15:29 PM)
quote: Actually I think that the taxes levied on smokers are unjust, which is why eliminating ciggies is the best alternative to taxing people for smoking... Again, I'm going to disagree on this one. I have no issue with taxes on cigarettes. I think that it's perfectly acceptable to place a tax on cigs, soda, processed/fast foods...that way, if the community needs resources to deal with the complications caused by making those choices about one's life, then they can tap into the pool of "vice" taxes, right? Sounds like a fair plan to me -- I can either choose to pay the price, or choose not to smoke. If smoking is banned, that is a NO CHOICE option, which takes not only the right to decide what I'm going to do with my body... MY BODY... away from me and gives it to someone else, but also limits resources for the community as a whole... ... so explain to me again how banning my cigarettes is more just than keeping them legal and taxing them? To me, it just sounds like someone else trying to control me, my body, and my decisions with the justification of it being "good for me". I had parents. I'm an adult now, and can police myself, and prefer it that way, thank you very much -- even if I have to pay extra taxes to have the right to do so.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 2:17:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW Legislation on things like this are nothing more than enforcing one's own choices or moral code on someone else -- and to -me- that kind of stripping freedom in the interest of conformity is a crime. How is letting ten or fifteen percent of the customers fill the premises with smoke not doing that? Vote with your feet. If a company won't provide a protected smoke-free environment, and you and those who don't want smoke in their environment don't want to be around smoke, then don't eat, drink, dance, shop, or whatever there. (Do you know how weird it is to be arguing from this POV after having already quit smoking??? shakes my head)

pahunkboy -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 2:32:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Do you think I like living on a busy street? I can reach out and touch the traffic. The noise and smog is 24-7. No one goes the speed limit- few have a proper muffler- and people toss liter out that I then must pick up. I HATE this rotten busy street. i wish I could move. I wish you could move too, it would be nice to reduce the unnecessary pollution, which is a good reason to advocate for less cars on busy roads by decreasing emissions, increasing public transportation, etc. In other words better regulation.... Thank you. You are very kind.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 2:46:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead The guys you see drinking meths under a railway bridge aren't just putting away a couple of glasses of red a day as an anticoagulant, Julia. People abuse all sorts of substances, as long as they can do so without harming others I fail to see your point... People eat too much, for example

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 2:51:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Fair enough, but can you get your head around the counter argument that it might be nice for non smokers to have somewhere they can go for a drink in February? You know, before the legislation, there were half a dozen restaurants and clubs in our neighborhood alone that were smoke-free (admittedly, I live in a large city), without any legislation requiring it. There was at least one Country-Western club, and one dance club that I know of because I spent time in them, and two family restaurants and a health-food restaurant, and a Continental restaurant that were also 100% smoke-free. My thing is, even in a small town or city, if people want a smoke-free establishment, work with the management of the club. If there are enough customers in that venue to support a smoke-free environment, then the place will probably go smoke-free, without legislation--as a force of the market. Legislation on things like this are nothing more than enforcing one's own choices or moral code on someone else -- and to -me- that kind of stripping freedom in the interest of conformity is a crime. In California there were very few restaurants to none in most places that had banned tobacco products. Most had "smoking" sections, but smoke has a way of not respecting lines on the floor, In Las Vegas they had one nonsmoking casino in the early 1990s it went back to smoking because casinos pander to the smokers... There is also the problem of employees who have to work in these establishments, which is why California banned smoking as a working health hazard... one cannot expose employees to second hand cigarette smoke and harm them... and I see this as completely rational.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 2:56:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania ... and I see this as completely rational. Of course you do -- which is why I suspect that the only way we're ever going to come to an agreement is if we agree to disagree.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dai (2/28/2010 3:11:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania ... and I see this as completely rational. Of course you do -- which is why I suspect that the only way we're ever going to come to an agreement is if we agree to disagree. Of course the only way we are going to come to an agreement is to agree to disagree... Of course I stated that I thought some of your positions had merit (I think people should be able to drink raw milk for example and to even put a gun up to their head and pull the trigger as far as doing what they want with their bodies), but if you cannot agree that people should have the ability to go into a public building, shop, eat or even work for over 8 hours a day in some cases vs those who want to smoke stepping outside and only harming themselves... well if you can't agree that people do not respect others and therefore need a law to force them to, well... I suppose we can't come to an agreement... Funny, I try to see other people's positions, especially if their position is based upon legitimate health concerns.... just me, etc

juliaoceania -> RE: Pub landlord is first person in Britain to be jailed over smoking ban Read more: http://www.dailyma (2/28/2010 3:17:26 PM)
quote: ... so explain to me again how banning my cigarettes is more just than keeping them legal and taxing them? To me, it just sounds like someone else trying to control me, my body, and my decisions with the justification of it being "good for me". I had parents. I'm an adult now, and can police myself, and prefer it that way, thank you very much -- even if I have to pay extra taxes to have the right to do so. I think it is wrong for government to profit from the pain and suffering that an addiction to tobacco represents... and since they have come up with a rationale for doing it, the only way to stop that rationale is to stop people from smoking in the first place... Part of the motivation for me to quit was I got tired of paying such heavy taxes to kill myself.. it made no sense to pay 1000s in taxes each year to slowly kill myself. Since smokers are usually socio-economically disadvantaged, it seems even more heinous to me to tax them to kill themselves. I took care of a man that was incapacitated from his habit, he had COPD, brain damage, asthma, and emphysema... he was blind and wheelchair bound... that was enough motivation to get me to quit alone, but the taxes on it, well that was a close second.

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