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RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/6/2010 9:22:33 PM   
MrMister


Posts: 272
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrMister
I can think of two instances where there were illegal orders carried out by people who have sworn an oath to our Constitution. 1) The aftermath of hurricane Katrina in the confiscation of guns. 2)The round up and internment of Japanese people living in the US during WWII.


Hmm, where were the Oathkeepers when anAmerican citizen was imprisoned on American soil by the President without a trial, charges, or right to habea corpus?





The Oathkeepers are a relatively new group formed a little over a year ago if my memory serves me correct. I do know the membership has grown, but not sure of the current numbers. Pretty simple to deduce that the folks responsible for carrying out any order that has been issued up to this point, were not privy to what was going on with the Oathkeepers. It is my hope that the next time any such illegal order is issued, there will be Oathkeepers there to stand down and not follow said orders.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/6/2010 9:28:56 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Man, I have tooooo many war stories about having to pee outside on remote sites.  No fun atall.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
So this may be as peeing in the wind, though I'll leave that to the menfolks.  So much more hassle for us wimmin.


Off topic, but the visual of a woman standing up and peeing in the wind just made me laugh out loud



(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/6/2010 9:32:43 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		Well, MrMister, I am a bit skeptical that the Oathkeepers give a rat's ass about the imprisonment of Jose Padilla, American citizen on American soil, by George W Bush.

However, maybe now that Obama is President, they will discover the joys of civil liberties, and join in with the ACLU and other groups in protesting cases like this.

(in reply to MrMister)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/6/2010 10:01:18 PM   
MrMister


Posts: 272
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Well, MrMister, I am a bit skeptical that the Oathkeepers give a rat's ass about the imprisonment of Jose Padilla, American citizen on American soil, by George W Bush.

However, maybe now that Obama is President, they will discover the joys of civil liberties, and join in with the ACLU and other groups in protesting cases like this.


Much like you AnimusRex, I can only assume one way or the other what the Oathkeepers think of Jose Padilla's predicament, but I will assume that it is something to serve as another reason for stronger support for all such causes where rights of American citizens are lost or infringed.

Here is a list I copied from their website, as it seems not many here consider it prudent to check things out for themselves, concerning unlawful orders they will not carry out and some other general things about them:

What We Are Not


We are Not advocating or promoting the overthrow of
any government whether local, state or national.
We want our governments to return to the Constitutional
Republic which the Declaration of Independence and the
Constitution defined and instituted.


We are Not advocating or promoting violence towards
any organization, group or person.
We are determined to Honor our Oath to support and
defend the Constitution.


We are not advocating or promoting the removal of any
person from his or her elected office.
We want all elected persons to live up to their
Oath to "support and defend the Constitution" as it
is written or to leave of their own volition.


We are not advocating or promoting that anyone in the
Judicial Branch be removed or replaced.
We want the Justices in the Judicial Branch to follow
the Constitution as written without interpretation.


We are not advocating or promoting any particular
form of government other than the Constitutional
Republic which the Declaration of Independence and
the Constitution defined and instituted. 


We are not advocating or promoting the rewriting of
the Constitution nor are we asking for an Amendment thereto.
We are insisting on the Constitution being Enforced
as it is written without interpretation.   


We are Not advocating or promoting any act or acts of
aggression against any organization or person for any
reason including, but not limited to; race, religion,
national origin, political affiliation, gender or
sexual orientation. 

We hope for a return to a Constitutional Republic free from fear and hatred,
We hate only tyranny.


We are Oath sworn Americans who want the
Constitution returned to its Legal and Rightful place, intact,
as the Ultimate Law of the Land.


OATH KEEPERS: ORDERS WE WILL NOT OBEY
Click here to read full length version.

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control."
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.
10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

< Message edited by MrMister -- 3/6/2010 10:06:28 PM >

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/6/2010 10:05:48 PM   
Blackburn


Posts: 78
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mikeyOfGeorgia

i've said it before and i'll say it again, what this country needs to straighten things up is another Civil War.


??? Civil war between what sides? If you are talking conservative vs liberal or some such bizarre abstraction, they will fight like pussies, calling each other names and sticking out their tongues. Won't solve my problem getting a new home loan...

(in reply to mikeyOfGeorgia)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/6/2010 10:15:07 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		So if the Oathkeepers don't like a SCOTUS ruling, saying that it wasn't "as the Constitution as written", they'll not act in accordance with the ruling?  Shit, as written slaves had no rights and women couldn't vote.

Regarding the following:
We are not advocating or promoting any particular
form of government other than the Constitutional
Republic which the Declaration of Independence and
the Constitution defined and instituted. 

The Declaration of Independence is not law, and you'd have a hard time finding 2 people who agree on exactly what the Constitution "defined and instituted."

(in reply to Blackburn)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/6/2010 10:23:19 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

So if the Oathkeepers don't like a SCOTUS ruling, saying that it wasn't "as the Constitution as written", they'll not act in accordance with the ruling?  Shit, as written slaves had no rights and women couldn't vote.

Regarding the following:
We are not advocating or promoting any particular
form of government other than the Constitutional
Republic which the Declaration of Independence and
the Constitution defined and instituted. 

The Declaration of Independence is not law, and you'd have a hard time finding 2 people who agree on exactly what the Constitution "defined and instituted."



its a directive

thats because people today are rockyfeller educated flouride retards


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/6/2010 10:45:35 PM   
MrMister


Posts: 272
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

So if the Oathkeepers don't like a SCOTUS ruling, saying that it wasn't "as the Constitution as written", they'll not act in accordance with the ruling?  Shit, as written slaves had no rights and women couldn't vote.

Regarding the following:
We are not advocating or promoting any particular
form of government other than the Constitutional
Republic which the Declaration of Independence and
the Constitution defined and instituted. 

The Declaration of Independence is not law, and you'd have a hard time finding 2 people who agree on exactly what the Constitution "defined and instituted."



I'm going to venture a guess here thornhappy, but if SCOTUS determined it was appropriate to come to your house and confiscate your food, water, guns (if any) or whatever else they deemed appropriate in confiscating, any member of the Oathkeepers would indeed stand down and NOT follow such an order even if determined by SCOTUS as being a lawful action.

Also, in my opinion, I'm sorry such an organization wasn't in place during Hilter's lead up to power. 

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/6/2010 10:53:07 PM   
PenOnBeadedChain


Posts: 58
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline 		I read the other day that there have been over 200 attacks resulting in deaths from domestic rightwing terrorists in this country. Meanwhile there have been what, 4 or 5 from militant Muslim terrorists?

Which "war on terror" should we be focusing more on? Makes you wonder.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/6/2010 11:24:46 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I read the other day that there have been over 200 attacks resulting in deaths from domestic rightwing terrorists


Where's the bullshit button? I want to see the site.

(in reply to PenOnBeadedChain)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/7/2010 12:09:27 AM   
mikeyOfGeorgia


Posts: 451
Joined: 3/8/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackburn


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikeyOfGeorgia

i've said it before and i'll say it again, what this country needs to straighten things up is another Civil War.


??? Civil war between what sides? If you are talking conservative vs liberal or some such bizarre abstraction, they will fight like pussies, calling each other names and sticking out their tongues. Won't solve my problem getting a new home loan...


does it really matter? it could be the rich against the poor. or it could be a religious war. or it could be just an all out, every man (or person, for those seeking to be politically correct) for themselves. the only way things can possibly get better is for a war among ourselves to get things changed...maybe for the better...maybe for the worst.

of course, i'm pulling for the Rich VS the Poor. not that would be impressive.

(in reply to Blackburn)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/7/2010 4:37:42 AM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Do you really think something like that would fly?  Considering the conservative bent of decisions lately, why do you think anything like that would happen?  Why is this such a concern now and not when Bush was whacking away at various and sundry liberties?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrMister

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

So if the Oathkeepers don't like a SCOTUS ruling, saying that it wasn't "as the Constitution as written", they'll not act in accordance with the ruling?  Shit, as written slaves had no rights and women couldn't vote.

Regarding the following:
We are not advocating or promoting any particular
form of government other than the Constitutional
Republic which the Declaration of Independence and
the Constitution defined and instituted. 

The Declaration of Independence is not law, and you'd have a hard time finding 2 people who agree on exactly what the Constitution "defined and instituted."



I'm going to venture a guess here thornhappy, but if SCOTUS determined it was appropriate to come to your house and confiscate your food, water, guns (if any) or whatever else they deemed appropriate in confiscating, any member of the Oathkeepers would indeed stand down and NOT follow such an order even if determined by SCOTUS as being a lawful action.

Also, in my opinion, I'm sorry such an organization wasn't in place during Hilter's lead up to power. 


(in reply to MrMister)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/7/2010 8:06:41 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Some Tea Partiers hate Obama, sure. Some of them hate Bush,too -  but thats neither here nor there. What the Tea Partiers really hate are these incrediblly irresponsible deficits that are robbing the future from America's future generations. They hate the way the Constitution is being degraded, and the way states rights are ignored.



Yes, and weren't you the one on here preaching about how liberals are "haters"?

Yet you see nothing wrong with a movement that seems based on hatred of anything they disagree with.

This is what you get when that happens:


quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

It's people like you that will be first to go. Well, right after Obama and the heads of all the too-big-to-fails.
What a complete load of shit.

When it's extremist to believe in freedom, sound money, and sanity, the country is ready for another revolution. Yes, the kind that involves people shooting other people in the face until they die. With guns.



(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/7/2010 8:10:53 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
That question's better asked the other way around. Why was the Patriot Act, etc, the end of the  world when it was Bush who signed off on it, but when Obama signs off on the same sort of thing it doesn't even make the news. Crickets are all you hear. We're expanding wars and using drones to destroy people without warrants, still more crickets.

Was it all just about political gain? That devil Bush, maybe not as bad as he was painted up to be? Maybe we really need to do these things, but the left needed something to scream about... and national security isn't a priority for them, so they chose to attack Bush that way.


quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Do you really think something like that would fly?  Considering the conservative bent of decisions lately, why do you think anything like that would happen?  Why is this such a concern now and not when Bush was whacking away at various and sundry liberties?


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/7/2010 8:15:19 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

You've been duped. There is no tea party or tea bag party. Beck and Palin are shills trying to jump on board the real movement and discredit it. It won't work. People like Brain are brainWASHED and unable to see reality, but I think you'll eventually come around. The movement is based on small government, sound money, peace, the constitution, and has no backing. It has no sponsors. It has no agenda. But it's washing over the western world in a huge way and anyone caught still clinging to the old system is going to go down with it. Open your eyes and take a chance. You'll still be "cool" once you do it, don't worry. :)



No shit?

It's about peace huh?

Wasn't there some guy on here with the same name that was just talking about revolution and shooting people in the face?

I'm also curious why someone from Canada wants to take part in a Teabagger revolution in the States.

(in reply to wittynamehere)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/7/2010 8:26:42 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Why would you complain about Canadians commenting on our politics, most Canadians here are extreme far left Liberals.

And they're not teabaggers unless you're a Libtard and you suck their balls.

They're Tea Partiers.

You get the same kind of respect you dish out you whiny, naggy little bitch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
No shit?

It's about peace huh?

Wasn't there some guy on here with the same name that was just talking about revolution and shooting people in the face?

I'm also curious why someone from Canada wants to take part in a Teabagger revolution in the States.



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/7/2010 8:45:43 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


That question's better asked the other way around. Why was the Patriot Act, etc, the end of the  world when it was Bush who signed off on it, but when Obama signs off on the same sort of thing it doesn't even make the news. Crickets are all you hear. We're expanding wars and using drones to destroy people without warrants, still more crickets.




It's easy to understand how your little brain might have a hard time wrapping around this one.

You give me a gun.

You give you (sanity) a gun.

Wait ten minutes.

Ten minutes later I still have my gun holstered with the "safety" on.

Ten minutes later Sanity is screaming, laying in a pool of blood because he not only shot a child but in the process blew off his own nuts.

It's not as frightening having the "Patriot Act" in the hands of a person that values your rights and is a responsible person.

Understand you fucking idiot?

< Message edited by domiguy -- 3/7/2010 8:56:56 AM >

_____________________________



(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/7/2010 8:57:58 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Also, in my opinion, I'm sorry such an organization wasn't in place during Hilter's lead up to power.


This statement does not indicate that you have any clear understanding of the "lead up to Hitler's power".
Perhaps you might be interested in Churchill's Role in that. It is easily available in print.
It is Churchill's six volumn tome on WWII

(in reply to MrMister)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/7/2010 11:16:42 AM   
MrMister


Posts: 272
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Do you really think something like that would fly?  Considering the conservative bent of decisions lately, why do you think anything like that would happen?  Why is this such a concern now and not when Bush was whacking away at various and sundry liberties?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrMister

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

So if the Oathkeepers don't like a SCOTUS ruling, saying that it wasn't "as the Constitution as written", they'll not act in accordance with the ruling?  Shit, as written slaves had no rights and women couldn't vote.

Regarding the following:
We are not advocating or promoting any particular
form of government other than the Constitutional
Republic which the Declaration of Independence and
the Constitution defined and instituted. 

The Declaration of Independence is not law, and you'd have a hard time finding 2 people who agree on exactly what the Constitution "defined and instituted."



I'm going to venture a guess here thornhappy, but if SCOTUS determined it was appropriate to come to your house and confiscate your food, water, guns (if any) or whatever else they deemed appropriate in confiscating, any member of the Oathkeepers would indeed stand down and NOT follow such an order even if determined by SCOTUS as being a lawful action.

Also, in my opinion, I'm sorry such an organization wasn't in place during Hilter's lead up to power. 




AHHHH, at last we get someone who merely wants to argue for arguments sake and pit left vs right or whatever other such nonsense. Why is it some of you folks simply refuse to read and comprehend? I NEVER once indicated that I thought this would fly, or would ever happen. It it were to happen (God forbid), then hopefully the Oathkeepers will be of some positive influence. Why is that difficult for you to grasp thornhappy???

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: US facing surge in rightwing extremists and militias - 3/7/2010 11:21:01 AM   
MrMister


Posts: 272
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Also, in my opinion, I'm sorry such an organization wasn't in place during Hilter's lead up to power.


This statement does not indicate that you have any clear understanding of the "lead up to Hitler's power".
Perhaps you might be interested in Churchill's Role in that. It is easily available in print.
It is Churchill's six volumn tome on WWII


Here we go once again......

I would like to see the tome you are referring to, nonetheless, I still stand by my previously stated opinion. And for the record, I also wished such an organization as the Oathkeepers were around while the Japanese were being rounding up here in the USA during WWII and placed in internment camps.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 100
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