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RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 11:05:42 AM   
alhamdullilah


Posts: 81
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline 		Steven... how come you say I "seem" intelligent but you deem me "very submissive"?? Entirely kidding! Thank you for the compliments!

I really appreciate all the replies thus far. It never ceases to amaze me how much wit and wisdom there is among those who post here (totally wasted much of the time, isn't it, but it's still impressive!)

Yes, Domiguy, you're responsible for what ill fate befalls me here now. If nothing else, I figure it means that if I post something really stupid you can't, (pardon the phrase) tear me a new one in your incredibly clever manner... right? Right??

AnimusRex as well as others have posted wise truths about having the strength and dignity to walk away when one finds herself in that role. I have never knowingly walked in to any of those situations but I have failed to walk out of them when the awareness struck. In the end, I guess I have done so. It is frightening to face doing it all alone, however, and to embrace that when being told you're wanted and adored and you'll be the one as soon as the time is right can be terribly unappealing and, all that comes with the independence, all the more daunting.

So, the consensus then is that, just as being submissive doesn't equate to weakness, being a slave or submissive doesn't make one more prone to becoming the other woman?

I guess I would have to agree with that logic. That would mean there isn't a higher incidence of it among submissives. Perhaps that's true, too, especially since I think a lot of women are submissive whether they claim it as a label or not. I still wonder, though, if the incidence isn't higher among us, if in fact we aren't more prone to fall into that role. It would seem that, from the posts I've read, it happens often enough, just that those who've posted their experiences are saying they would never go back to such an existence. Doesn't it make us prey for the sort who would take advantage of our nature in that way? Is it not harder to set those limits, especially if you happen to be the type who loathes the idea of setting any limits whatsoever?

I could be setting myself up for attack... Domiguy... protect me?? But I've never even used a safe word or set boundaries for "play", let alone told a Man how I expect him to behave. Once I accepted the identity of a slave, I concluded that ending the relationship wasn't even within my purview. Now, perhaps my life experiences are teaching me that isn't a legitimate approach to living until and if I find that wholly trustworthy Companion to relinquish myself to. Without engaging in belabored banter about doormat syndrome, I guess I'm asking if one is not wise to avoid total submission, total vulnerability in order to establish those limits. Otherwise, how can she not be more prone to being taken advantage of in myriad ways, including being made into "the other woman"?

Hope I'm making sense and not belaboring the topic. Thank you all again so much for your thoughts on the issue!!

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 11:37:34 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		You don't have to immediately fix your issues, assuming they can be all dealt with and tossed which I doubt. You simply have to set up rules for yourself to live by. Which includes no poly if you don't like it. And talk about these parameters before you have sex.

By talking about it before, he either agrees he's monogamous or he says he isn't. If he isn't you don't go farther. If he says he is but acts differently, then you overrule your heart and allow your brain to make the decision. If he says he is monogamous but runs around, then he's a liar and a cheater and you end the relationship.

Because it is better to be alone than to be with the wrong person. I find it helpful to write down the list of traits I need in a partner, and then compare the new person to those traits. If he doesn't have them, then no matter how hot he is I don't go farther. I don't let my clit do my thinking.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to UniqueRaven)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 11:59:05 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alhamdullilah

Yes, Domiguy, you're responsible for what ill fate befalls me here now. If nothing else, I figure it means that if I post something really stupid you can't, (pardon the phrase) tear me a new one in your incredibly clever manner... right? Right??



Alhamdullilah,
So your first conversation on CM was with Domiguy, eh?  That must have been an interesting intro to the boards.  Kind of like a 15 year old girl losing her virginity by being anally raped by a biker gang; it's a rough first experience, but after that, everything else seems mild in comparison. 

(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 12:37:57 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: alhamdullilah

Yes, Domiguy, you're responsible for what ill fate befalls me here now. If nothing else, I figure it means that if I post something really stupid you can't, (pardon the phrase) tear me a new one in your incredibly clever manner... right? Right??



Alhamdullilah,
So your first conversation on CM was with Domiguy, eh?  That must have been an interesting intro to the boards.  Kind of like a 15 year old girl losing her virginity by being anally raped by a biker gang; it's a rough first experience, but after that, everything else seems mild in comparison. 



I was her first...A gal never forgets her first. She was a lucky little filly, was she not? Think of all of the people that could have benefited from my mentorship. I should charge.


quote:

ORIGINAL: alhamdullilah

That would mean there isn't a higher incidence of it among submissives. Perhaps that's true, too, especially since I think a lot of women are submissive whether they claim it as a label or not. I still wonder, though, if the incidence isn't higher among us, if in fact we aren't more prone to fall into that role.

I could be setting myself up for attack... Domiguy... protect me?? But I've never even used a safe word or set boundaries for "play", let alone told a Man how I expect him to behave.


People will disagree, but I think that you are 100% correct. for whatever reason whether it stems from abuse, neglect, past trauma or just a natural subby trait.. you sum bitches are more likely to be rolled over.

It goes with the territory. If you meet someone that is a taker they might run you straight through the shredder. It is in your character to kind of allow this to not only transpire but repeat itself time and time again. It sucks.

So knowing yourself all too well you have to construct more barriers than a woman that will not immediately just give the shit up. Sabe?

I will protect you. I am your protector. I am the most trusted name on CM...My name goes on before my dick goes in!!...There are several reasons I will take you under my wing. First off, I am a giver. Secondly, you are bi. Also, it doesn't hurt that you are rather easy on the eye... Let's disregard the first and focus our energies primarily on the second.

Take care.



< Message edited by domiguy -- 3/6/2010 1:32:17 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 1:07:17 PM   
alhamdullilah


Posts: 81
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline 		Domiguy, you are sooooo right. I am bi.

Seriously, I agree with your assessment. I think it's all the more necessary to set boundaries when one knows she is prone to being "rolled over". I know that not everyone would agree that it's more likely among submissives - it isn't likely to be a popular opinion but I can't help but think there's some legitimacy to it. I used to notice the prevalence of a history of abuse among the submissives I'd encounter but never dared to bring it up in any forums. On the other hand, an inquiry into the lives of average people seems to reveal that it's pretty common in general. So, who's to say?

Thanks for the protection, Domiguy. I feel safer already. That means I can say any stupid thing I want to on here and you'll stick up for me, right?! Cool.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 1:28:01 PM   
afkarr


Posts: 328
Joined: 1/13/2010
Status: offline 		My take is a little different, as I'm not only married and playing, but prefer to play with other marrieds. I walk into anything kink related with eyes wide open, knowing full well I will be "the other woman", just as any potential partner knows he will be "the other man". Works quite well for me, as I really am not able to devote the time and energy to being the one and only to a single partner, nor is it fair for me to expect someone who isn't in another relationship to spend their days waiting for when I can sneak out and play.

IMHO, singles are best seeking other singles, and attatcheds should stick to other attatcheds. Juggling 2 schedules can be a headache at times and seriously decrease playtime, but I find that avoiding the eventual ineviatable situation of one partner wanting more than the other is able to give is worth giving up a little in person time.

(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 1:44:35 PM   
alhamdullilah


Posts: 81
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you for that honest reply, afkarr. That makes genuine sense. But then people can be greedy, can't they? Many who are attached still want someone who will give them all the attention they desire.

That's where I think the prevalence I'm talking about comes in- Doms (of a certain type, that is) wanting to control and rule the life of a submissive who will be at his beck and call, undemanding on him and tolerant of his life situation. What's worse is when it turns out that his primary relationship isn't one in which he's the Dom. Well, I think it's worse, anyway. It does, however, somewhat excuse one from the notion that she can't end the M/s relationship, if she'd be disinclined to do so. Perhaps it shouldn't require that he turn out to be a less than genuine Master to lead her to end the relationship, though.

Sorry. I seem to be working through a lot of thoughts and uncertainties... out loud!

(in reply to afkarr)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 2:12:24 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		Hey welcome, see the good domi's thread did? I think he should get bonus points for having someone come in and say more than hi.

You are all right dont apologize!

quote:

ORIGINAL: alhamdullilah

It seems that in my relationships, or rather in my life, I'm not stable enough to make me a good candidate for being the main girl, so to speak. The criticism is that if I had my life more together I'd be more appropriate for the serious relationship.


Who is saying this? If someone said that to me I would laugh them right out of my hallway, go scoot get...

quote:

I've always believed that being strong is a necessity for a slave/submissive and, perhaps, I'm not.


I dont dig labels. For me being strong is something that happens as you grow. Some people seem to have it more together than others but it doesnt really mean that much because we all have ourselves and that is where we start most of the time.

If you arnt strong and I am not sure what you mean here. You want a one on one intimate relationship with a man? That is a reachable goal. Look within and see there, start there. If you have friends you trust they will be really good things to lean on when times feel too nutty. There are no necessities. Being real, being true to you is the main thing I would wager.

quote:

Apparently, I'm a good lay so they don't want to let me go but one doesn't become the priority that way, either.


That is what they all say I am not sure if you are saying you feel you have no character by not being strong...

quote:

In my profile, I spoke honestly of this and, to my surprise, got a lot of responses from Doms wanting to "fix my life." So, between the sexual aspect and "the mess" aspect, I hold some attraction, but in the end, what kind of attraction does that really turn out to be? And I wonder, how many women who are very submissive fall into that trap.


We are all in some sort of damaged state, look around you this world is not healed yet, lots needs fixing. If a man can help you be more of who you are great. You are a self proclaimed sexy mess that is not so bad or strange.

quote:

I know, the twue Doms (I do enjoy that phrase though it seems terribly irreverant) might say that a real Master doesn't sneak around. I don't disagree. He doesn't have to. That's part of the problem, though, when a Man discovers that you'll be accommodating enough that he doesn't have to lie to you. Then, he just lies to the women in his life who aren't submissive and wouldn't tolerate it. Add loving someone to the mix here and it seems to become a problem for all involved.


A man who lies to any woman in his life in order to sneak around is not a man in my books. Maybe dont take shit from men. Expect more for yourself than to be run over because he can.

quote:

I usually hate to address a topic I know I can answer on my own. I know the answers - the wrong kind of guys, fixing my own life especially, etc. Still I can't help but wonder if there aren't slaves and submissives out there - doormats or otherwise - who fall into this category and find themselves often in the role of "the other woman" as I do, and I rather hope to hear from them if they, like me, exist. However intelligent, however wise and however well-meaning... I can't be the only one who allows herself to be tripped up by life and one's own nature in this manner. Can I?

Let the reaming begin... Thanks for letting me post here, however lame my query.

-llilah


I would suggest you to stop talking shit about yourself. You have made yourself vulnerable here and that is not bad at all but no need to heap crap on yourself. It is so easy to do a preemptive strike seems like a good defense. You are you bottom line and what you are hoping for and looking for is your thing and you have every right to have what you desire.

I think it is cool you came out here and posted this, good on ya!

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 2:16:26 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		heartcream that was awesome., you covered/said it all. Took the words right out of my....fingertips.



_____________________________

It hurts.....that you call me a masochist


(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 2:41:03 PM   
DWCskitten


Posts: 199
Joined: 3/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alhamdullilah

So, the consensus then is that, just as being submissive doesn't equate to weakness, being a slave or submissive doesn't make one more prone to becoming the other woman?

There are a lot of strong s-types and plenty of 'nilla "other women." It can happen regardless of "lifestyle."

_____________________________

formerly sweetsub1957.

New beginnings...my first poly relationship.

Proudly Owned property of MasterDWC.


(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 3:21:48 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alhamdullilah
But I've never even used a safe word or set boundaries for "play", let alone told a Man how I expect him to behave. Once I accepted the identity of a slave, I concluded that ending the relationship wasn't even within my purview. Now, perhaps my life experiences are teaching me that isn't a legitimate approach to living until and if I find that wholly trustworthy Companion to relinquish myself to. Without engaging in belabored banter about doormat syndrome, I guess I'm asking if one is not wise to avoid total submission, total vulnerability in order to establish those limits. Otherwise, how can she not be more prone to being taken advantage of in myriad ways, including being made into "the other woman"?

Hope I'm making sense and not belaboring the topic. Thank you all again so much for your thoughts on the issue!!


It would seem that this paragraph right here might be where things are going bad. It's all fine and dandy that you identify as "slave." Right now, you are (I assume) single, right? So you aren't a "slave" right now, you are a woman. A living breathing, attractive, intelligent woman who has wants and needs of her own.

It seems to me that when you begin talking with someone, you easily slip right into your "slave" identity and forget that you aren't that guy's anything at that moment beyond someone who sparked his interest. I know it seems contradictory to think that since you are a slave, you can "make demands." But you really aren't making any demands. You are stating what you require in a master, and there is nothing wrong with you having requirements.

Think of it this way....if you were messaged by a man, and during your conversations you found out he was say, like 80 years old (no comments from the seniors or the peanut gallery). You feel that a 40 year age difference is just too much. Do you have a problem telling the man that? You probably don't, right? So try to think about any other thing that a man presents himself as being the same kind of thing. It isn't what you are looking for.

I'm not trying to say that it is going to be an easy thing to do. I'm sure it isn't. But until you find a man who meets YOUR requirements, remember that you are only a slave to yourself and your needs. As such, you have an obligation to yourself to make sure that only the best possible master (for you) gets to take over the reigns of your life.

(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 3:38:24 PM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		Welcome, glad to see a new poster here   Glad you took a chance and braved the water with a thread, that was a ballsy move on your part. I can relate to your post in many ways. In the past I've tended to be kind of wishy washy in what I wanted and fell into some situations where I wasn't very happy but I never said no or put my foot down until I eventually left. I'm the type of person who finds it hard to say no. So I'm telling you from being in the same place as you've been....you don't have to do this.

If you do not want anyone who is in a relationship let your profile talk for you and put it in there first of all. Then when you first exchange emails make sure to ask if the guy is single, unattached, unmarried, whatever. You put it out there in a non confrontational way in the profile and you follow up. Anyone who is looking to slide one by you is going to see right from the beginning that it's going to be a tough sell and they may elect to move onto another woman who is easier prey. See, I hear you when you say that you don't know upfront and you subsequently end up in these relationships unknowingly. Obviously that's the guy who is intending to mislead you and there's not much you can do about his dishonesty except be more wary upfront and continue to watch for signs along the way.

It's hard...very hard to leave something when you're invested in it, which is why I advocate more about being proactive from the beginning. I know what you mean about being so accomodating and letting the man do his thing but it's not what you signed up for, and if it's not, then move on at that point. As hard as it is. You know what the alternative is, you know what it's like to be the other woman...so do I. It sucks. It's not going to help your self esteem any and you're not going to get more stable or productive on your own by letting people take advantage of you. You won't be improving your own situation at all by accepting something you never wanted to begin with. Then you're stuck with another mess, another thing in your life that isn't going the way you want it to. It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy here don't you think?

I do understand what you're saying and I've done this with accepting things I never wanted. I've grown a lot in the area that if I were ever to seek a new relationship I'd be more upfront about asking for what I want and seeing if that person fits it or not and moving on if he doesn't. Lies shouldn't be a part of any relationship. If that happens it's not worth your time.

(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 3:45:42 PM   
alhamdullilah


Posts: 81
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline 		First, I have to say to heartcream, thank you so much for your post! It made me a little nervous when I first peeked at it. I thought, oh man, heartcream is gonna tear me apart... you were awesome! All of your points are well-taken and give me food for thought.

LafayetteLady, you really addressed an important point for me. I will offer a small bit of background and mention my "Gorean roots". Within a week of discovering there were those who identified as submissives, I was introduced to Gor, having been asked if I were a sub or a slave. Perhaps that's where a mess of confusion began, with that one question, but I won't really go there because I've read enough in the forums to know how beaten is that horse! Still, Gorean thought was kind of my upbringing, if you will. The idea that was ingrained (not that I'm not capable of discerning wisdom from whack now - just not sure what I really believe) is that all Men were my superiors. Early on, I'd give up my parking spaces to Men, I was sooo submissive!

I guess I still see Men that way, looking past those who have a nature that would demand otherwise. Online, I have the benefit of being able to simply not reply to a message (Is that wrong? Starting to wonder if that's considered bad form!) rather than confront them about something like age. I don't feel comfortable telling a Man I'm not interested. Heck, I'm still trying not to cap the darn word. Lol.

But I know you're right in everything you said. Knowing it and doing it can be quite different. As you said, it won't be easy.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 4:03:50 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline 		Hi alhamdullilah (I so had to copypaste that LOL just out of curiosity what does it mean?)

To be blunt, the first paragraph of your profile just screams take advantage of me - "The truth? I'm a mess. There you have it. For some reason, I need a Master but I wish I didn't. "

Low confidence, low self esteem, vulnerability, likely tendency to jump headfirst into relationships, and a (un)healthy dose of shame right there at the end. I've known a few doms, good upstanding doms, and they wouldn't reply to that profile, they don't want to deal with low self esteem and someone who thinks she's a "mess" and someone who will start to "need" them right away because of their Master status.

So that leaves the less-than-upstanding doms, the ones who can say all the pretty words to get you in bed, and that profile is like blood to a shark. I really don't mean to be critical because I'm guessing you wrote that from the heart, that you believe it's true, and I think you really need to address *why* you think it's true. Why are you "a mess"? Why do you need a Master - obviously as humans we have a strong desire to be partnered, but when I was single I would say "I wish I could find a man who I want to be with" and not "I need a man" and there's a different mindset there. Why do you wish you didn't need a master - that's probably a good question to ask - is it because you're ashamed of your sexuality or because you wish you were able to take charge of your own life?

If it's the latter...well I once knew a girl who told me, completely seriously, she didn't want to be self sufficient because then she wouldn't need a dominant man to rescue her. Is that what you're hoping for? Because I don't think it's going to happen. You need to do what you need to do for yourself, and that will attract a strong man.


(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 4:10:57 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		I agree, ya get down to the nitty-gritty, slim pickins of the weaker species doms IMO if you are so.....weak an needy. So, having the tail waggin' the dog is no way of living. Expect a better or more quality man when you treat yourself as if you deserve one--and if you think you don't, then that is what they will percieve. Any man can seem incredible to a pile/heap of despair and weepy lonliness. A homeless guy might have more self esteem and internal fortitude to survive on his own. Stop seeking and start livin'--for yourself, first.

sometimes all the good looks in the world can't make such an unnecessary weakness look..pretty.

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/6/2010 4:12:28 PM >

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 4:57:43 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alhamdullilah

Thanks for the protection, Domiguy. I feel safer already. That means I can say any stupid thing I want to on here and you'll stick up for me, right?! Cool.


No female sub has yet complained about Domiguy not sticking up for her....


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 5:32:59 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

No female sub has yet complained about Domiguy not sticking up for her....



Psssst...Steven...I think there are a couple of typos there...

You accidentally wrote the word 'for', and you missed out the words 'his Domidong' from where they belong after 'sticking'...



< Message edited by VaguelyCurious -- 3/6/2010 5:34:02 PM >

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.




(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 5:38:44 PM   
alhamdullilah


Posts: 81
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline 		You guys are right, Elisabella and came4U. My profile screams self-esteem issues and, I am learning, it can be rather like blood in the water. I guess it's one of those "Oh, I'm being totally honest" kinds of things because it is where I am right now. That's part of the reason it says I'm not really looking for an offline relationship just yet. Clearly, I'm not ready. When I don't feel like I have to confess to being a mess, I might be better prepared to make good judgments.

I thought about what you asked also. I think I believe it would be easier if I didn't feel the need AND the desire to be Mastered. For me, life would be simpler, I imagine, if that weren't a part of my psyche. So, perhaps feeling in control of my life more completely would improve my self-esteem but I don't think it would change my sense of insecurity on that issue. Thank you for the food for thought. Your insights are sincerely appreciated!


Steven, I'll bet you're a "stand-up" Guy in any sub's book, too!

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 5:50:51 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alhamdullilah

I am bi.



This, along with your youth, your looks, your charm, your wit, your intelligence and your submissive nature is all you need to pretty much land almost any guy you set your sights on!!! Do you know how many guys are looking for young, attractive, submissive, bi-sexual women??? I'm surprised they're not flooding your mailbox as we speak!

Girrrrrrrrrrllll....if I hear about you settling for ANYTHING other than the very best that there is for YOU, I am personally going to track you down and kick you in the seat of the pants!!!! For heaven's sake....it's time to start being picky! Start aiming high!

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 8:07:06 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I seem to end up being "the other guy"...it isn't just submissives who end up like this.

Don't make someone a priority who thinks of you as an option.

(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 40
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