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RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 8:52:20 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alhamdullilah

LafayetteLady, you really addressed an important point for me. I will offer a small bit of background and mention my "Gorean roots". Within a week of discovering there were those who identified as submissives, I was introduced to Gor, having been asked if I were a sub or a slave. Perhaps that's where a mess of confusion began, with that one question, but I won't really go there because I've read enough in the forums to know how beaten is that horse! Still, Gorean thought was kind of my upbringing, if you will. The idea that was ingrained (not that I'm not capable of discerning wisdom from whack now - just not sure what I really believe) is that all Men were my superiors. Early on, I'd give up my parking spaces to Men, I was sooo submissive!

I guess I still see Men that way, looking past those who have a nature that would demand otherwise. Online, I have the benefit of being able to simply not reply to a message (Is that wrong? Starting to wonder if that's considered bad form!) rather than confront them about something like age. I don't feel comfortable telling a Man I'm not interested. Heck, I'm still trying not to cap the darn word. Lol.

But I know you're right in everything you said. Knowing it and doing it can be quite different. As you said, it won't be easy.


Have you tried looking at some assertiveness classes? I will be the first to admit, I have no need for Gor and only basic knowledge of it, but it really doesn't matter. Maybe one of the first things you can do to work on that assertiveness is to actually ANSWER those emails where age is a problem. No one is saying that you should respond with "Fuck off you old coot!" But there is no way to not end up in bad relationships if you can't learn the word "NO." You could even respond with one of the "canned" response options available, then you don't need to actually type the words at first, but you will still be taking a step towards taking care of YOU first. And by the way, it isn't "bad form" to not reply to certain emails, lots of people do it. But in your case, I think it would be much better for you to force yourself to respond to those emails and tell them you don't think they are compatible with what you want.

The other thing you need to do is change that profile! Not because there is something wrong with admitting you are a "mess" but because you don't need to announce it for everyone to see. "Mess" is like a dog whistle to all those predatory doms. They know they can fool you into hanging on their every word.

Of course it is easy to have someone come in an handle everything. But in the long run, it will not do you much good, will it?

Not being ready for anything offline is great, but I don't think getting into some online relationship is going to do much for you either. Sure you could find yourself some "virtual" master who will tell you what to do and probably have you play all kinds of silly web cam games, but then you will just go to bed lonely and who the hell needs that? I see from your profile that you are 40 years old. I don't know if you were ever married, or have children. If you do have kids, what would you do to protect them? Probably anything, right? Well, right now, you need to protect your "child" that is the slave in you. If you wouldn't let your kids (or your friends) put themselves in a position, if you would tell them to stop, then start telling yourself to stop.

I've never been one for affirmations or any of that new age self help stuff, but in your case, I think it might be helpful. Remind yourself every single day that you will only be a slave to a man who has the qualities you want, one of which includes him being free and ready to want only you. If you don't present yourself as being worth the best, then only the dregs are going to approach you.

I honestly wish you luck. I have confidence that you are going to be able to overcome your self esteem issues and find a really great guy. Now you need to build some of that confidence yourself!

(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 9:03:52 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

You guys are right, Elisabella and came4U. My profile screams self-esteem issues and, I am learning, it can be rather like blood in the water. I guess it's one of those "Oh, I'm being totally honest" kinds of things because it is where I am right now. That's part of the reason it says I'm not really looking for an offline relationship just yet. Clearly, I'm not ready. When I don't feel like I have to confess to being a mess, I might be better prepared to make good judgments.

I thought about what you asked also. I think I believe it would be easier if I didn't feel the need AND the desire to be Mastered. For me, life would be simpler, I imagine, if that weren't a part of my psyche. So, perhaps feeling in control of my life more completely would improve my self-esteem but I don't think it would change my sense of insecurity on that issue. Thank you for the food for thought. Your insights are sincerely appreciated!


Sorry, and thanks, but nothing I can say or anyone can say is new news about reality.

Sure, as a submissive, we'd all love to be safe, warm, comfortable (yet not ) in some situation with the most perfectest dominant dom-dom candyman who comes along to save our world.

But it doesn't matter if you were born in the 13th or 21st century, there are always men that just plain suck and frankly aren't man enough to handle a stronger woman and therefore choose a whimp. Not calling you a whimp...lol. If you were, you would have far worse issues. I am calling thems mens that take advantage of the weak--whimps.

Although, weakness is a turn-on, a big high for the stronger species, it is also not to be taken advantage of for the sake of taking advantage.

It is like the Natives, they believe in the capture/kill of a prey to be sacred. As did the Vikings (the ones they pillaged) or a thousand other civilizations. How long would one that couldn't work hard or they couldn't fuck would last? Ooooo minutes. Why take some bitches on a boat for months or a year, if they knew they wouldn't last until the first codfish made them vomit endlessly? or the 2nd month they would be so frail they would cast themselves off a ship's edge if they could get to it?

What really is the point in capturing/taking something so weak that it is non-consequential? Why take it, kill it, if you don't make use of the bones, the cartilage, the liver, the heart? It is sacrilege to anyone witness and just as sacrilegious to the prey...an insult, infact.

There is beauty in all, even weakness. Yet, no creature gets the utmost pleasure out of capturing the lame. It just goes against nature and only the very weak and starving (physically/emotionally or mentally) do so. A creature gets more pride (lion pun) when there is a chase, a deserving, proud kill.

Don't ever think of yourself as weaker. Always think of yourself as struggling to be stronger, even if not for yourself, but for others. Don't ever forget that if you are injured/weakened and someone pulls the thorn out of your paw...that you can always bite them back. Make sure no one person has intention that it is merely JUST your paw they are healing, but it is with intent to make you walk.

A man who can help you to walk is the only man who is worthy of walking beside (or behind, or under).

Only a man who can make you stronger by the day, can heal --your soul.

When you find him, you won't need feet, for you will have wings



*gettin' mushy here

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/6/2010 9:15:38 PM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 9:19:47 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		OP.....

It does kinda suck when the other woman does better than you can.

Bugger.

< Message edited by Smutmonger -- 3/6/2010 9:20:34 PM >

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The other woman - 3/6/2010 9:27:23 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

OP.....

It does kinda suck when the other woman does better than you can.

Bugger.


If you are referring to a wife or gf, yep. She does do better, because that kinda sneaky man needs a strong woman to control him in everyday life lol. He likely sweeps the kitchen floors every night for her. She runs the show and she has it made.

She isn't doing any better being WITH HIM though, she is doing him a favor because his mom tossed him out and stopped cooking with cheese.

If anything, being the other woman is not such a bad thing (if consentual). At least it takes the pressure off .. no whining about taking out the garbage and less laundry (dirty gaunches) to do.

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/6/2010 10:15:50 PM >

(in reply to Smutmonger)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The other woman - 3/7/2010 3:27:02 PM   
afkarr


Posts: 328
Joined: 1/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: alhamdullilah

Thanks for the protection, Domiguy. I feel safer already. That means I can say any stupid thing I want to on here and you'll stick up for me, right?! Cool.


No female sub has yet complained about Domiguy not sticking up for her....




Domiguy has never stuck anything up me....I'm starting to feel so-o-o- rejected.

OP- seems like your best bet is would be to slow down, and seriously evaluate any potential partner to see if your both on the same wavelength as far as LTR. If he's not, then either move on, or consider him a play partner only, and keep looking. Eventually the pieces will fall into the right place. But remember, sometimes you have to kiss a lot of toads before one turns into your Prince Charming.

Take it from one of the married crowd- you will NEVER be a priority to an otherwise taken man; he may tell you he's leaving her "when the kids are older", "he's in a better financial position" or he "wants to let her down slow". If it sounds like BS, and smells like BS, chances are good it's BS. Don't even stop to kiss a toad like that, it's not worth the wasted spit.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The other woman - 3/7/2010 7:43:14 PM   
krikket


Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline 		I think a lot of us, kink or nilla, end up as the "other woman" at some point in our lives, even though we might think otherwise. I've been on both sides of this particular coin, and I can't say I cared much for either.  It took a while, but I eventually stopped beating myself up over it.  I also finally decided that I was tired of spending holidays and birthdays alone, tired of being in second place.  It's kind of ironic, but the Master who taught me that I deserved better, better than being second class member of the "group," was the one who ended up marring another, thus making me the other woman.  What was even weirder is that, in the end, he didn't understand why I ended the relationship.  Whenever I'm tempted to put myself in that situation again, I remind myself that married and/or attached men are a "hard" limit for me.  If someone tries to convince me to accept them wife/girl friend and all, if they won't pay heed to that particular limit then I'm naive, at best, to think they'll respect other limits I might have. 

We all have to make our own path in this area; we have to decide what kind of relationship we want to have, and then to do our best to stay on track.  It's not easy, but it's certainly doing.

Good luck.


_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin



When your heart speaks take good notes.





(in reply to afkarr)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The other woman - 3/7/2010 9:05:18 PM   
takemeforyourown


Posts: 430
Joined: 2/24/2007
Status: offline 		I became the 'other woman' when I had to move away from my Master and he met and knocked up another girl (vanilla) the very next month. Apparently his rebound girl turned into an instant family. We communicated via email and occasional phone calls, until SHE found out. I was summarily blocked, discarded and barred from ever contacting him again. It was humiliating. It's not a position I would ever relish to be in.

(in reply to krikket)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The other woman - 3/8/2010 3:09:17 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		It is sometimes acceptable to be the other woman... especially if you you just want a bit of attention but nothing too serious...

However if you want a man of your own you have to make a plan and there are some guide lines...

1. Learn to flirt if you do not already know how.
2. Do not have sex on your first date - there are exceptions to this rule, but break it at your peril, generally your chances of catching a man do NOT improve if you seem to be an easy lay, most men like a bit of a chase, they want to feel like they win a price.
3. Do not have sex with the guy until you know for a fact that he is single and also that he is not actually after your best friend instead.
4. Be self sufficient, men like a woman that can look after herself.
5. Be polite and curteous but no push over.
6. Go dancing, get better at cooking, join your local library and read good books.
7. Do NOT be too honest... honesty is over rated... most men do not want to know that you have a married lover to take care of your itch occasionally... or that you are a mess.
8. Do not complain about baggage... yes you might have been dumped, or maybe your mother does not understand you... just suck it up, do not bother him about these issues.
9. other things like stop smoking and do not use too much parfume... basically just be sensible.

Now ask all your friends if they know of a single man who might be interested in you and set up dates.

or continue playing on-line...
if it is all virtual who cares what kind of woman you are?

(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The other woman - 3/8/2010 5:23:45 AM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

It is sometimes acceptable to be the other woman... especially if you you just want a bit of attention but nothing too serious...

However if you want a man of your own you have to make a plan and there are some guide lines...

1. Learn to flirt if you do not already know how.
2. Do not have sex on your first date - there are exceptions to this rule, but break it at your peril, generally your chances of catching a man do NOT improve if you seem to be an easy lay, most men like a bit of a chase, they want to feel like they win a price.
3. Do not have sex with the guy until you know for a fact that he is single and also that he is not actually after your best friend instead.
4. Be self sufficient, men like a woman that can look after herself.
5. Be polite and curteous but no push over.
6. Go dancing, get better at cooking, join your local library and read good books.
7. Do NOT be too honest... honesty is over rated... most men do not want to know that you have a married lover to take care of your itch occasionally... or that you are a mess.
8. Do not complain about baggage... yes you might have been dumped, or maybe your mother does not understand you... just suck it up, do not bother him about these issues.
9. other things like stop smoking and do not use too much parfume... basically just be sensible.

Now ask all your friends if they know of a single man who might be interested in you and set up dates.

or continue playing on-line...
if it is all virtual who cares what kind of woman you are?



damn I have often broken rules 2, 6, 7, 8 and 9 and I still seem to find men of my own. I choose being authentic over pretense any day.


_____________________________

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(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The other woman - 3/8/2010 6:51:41 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: takemeforyourown

I became the 'other woman' when I had to move away from my Master and he met and knocked up another girl (vanilla) the very next month. Apparently his rebound girl turned into an instant family. We communicated via email and occasional phone calls, until SHE found out. I was summarily blocked, discarded and barred from ever contacting him again. It was humiliating. It's not a position I would ever relish to be in.


Were you married when you were with him, the master?

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to takemeforyourown)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The other woman - 3/8/2010 1:46:06 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

damn I have often broken rules 2, 6, 7, 8 and 9 and I still seem to find men of my own. I choose being authentic over pretense any day.



You have been very bad... now go to my room.


_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

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The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to wandersalone)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The other woman - 3/8/2010 2:58:06 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

It is sometimes acceptable to be the other woman... especially if you you just want a bit of attention but nothing too serious...

However if you want a man of your own you have to make a plan and there are some guide lines...

1. Learn to flirt if you do not already know how.
2. Do not have sex on your first date - there are exceptions to this rule, but break it at your peril, generally your chances of catching a man do NOT improve if you seem to be an easy lay, most men like a bit of a chase, they want to feel like they win a price.
3. Do not have sex with the guy until you know for a fact that he is single and also that he is not actually after your best friend instead.
4. Be self sufficient, men like a woman that can look after herself.
5. Be polite and curteous but no push over.
6. Go dancing, get better at cooking, join your local library and read good books.
7. Do NOT be too honest... honesty is over rated... most men do not want to know that you have a married lover to take care of your itch occasionally... or that you are a mess.
8. Do not complain about baggage... yes you might have been dumped, or maybe your mother does not understand you... just suck it up, do not bother him about these issues.
9. other things like stop smoking and do not use too much parfume... basically just be sensible.

Now ask all your friends if they know of a single man who might be interested in you and set up dates.

or continue playing on-line...
if it is all virtual who cares what kind of woman you are?



Very good advice for the first few dates...I think after you've been with someone for awhile it's okay to open up about your baggage (they're going to learn it anyway if you get married) but aside from that, very good advice.

I think a lot of people think that on a first or second date they should just put everything out there, its almost confrontational - "here I am, like me or don't" but that's not the best way to get to know someone. Unless you're punk. Or indie, my ex roommate's indie friends were really blunt and kind of crazy IMO...but yeah, rambling.

Good advice. Should be followed.

ETA - there's also nothing wrong with looking online, I wouldn't tell any of my friends "I want a man who is dominant in bed" LMFAO so I don't think asking friends might be the best way for someone into BDSM because the friend will eventually get annoyed that we keep turning down these great guys she sets us up with.

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 3/8/2010 2:59:34 PM >

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The other woman - 3/8/2010 3:30:32 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself


quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Right, like Jeff was really looking at her hat.




Course he wasn't - he's a man and we wimmins all know men lie and cheat about everything



Hush it bunny!


< Message edited by Icarys -- 3/8/2010 3:31:52 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The other woman - 3/8/2010 3:54:34 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		One thing you might remember, OP, is that you have worth as a human being. It isn't your job to make everyone else happy - just the one that you PICK! It doesn't decrease your worth if someone is annoyed with you. In fact, if someone isn't annoyed with you on a regular basis, you are being too accomadating.

Practise rejecting demands and requests online. It becomes easier, trust me. Just have a couple of ums and you will soon find out you can't say yes to everything.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The other woman - 3/8/2010 4:08:32 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline 		I have a different take on this. I don't mind being the other woman or even one of the other women... for the right man or woman. I don't connect this with self-esteem or rather a lack of it; I connect it with need and passion. Part of what I strongly need is to serve the right person in whatever way they want to be served...with the emphasis on the "whatever." Getting picky over the fact that I must share him or her with someone(s) else, seems antithical to that goal. Some people know how to handle multiple relationships and handle a slave's feelings about them so she didn't feel worthless or less of a person in that situation--well except in the sexual sense (I'm smiling at what I'm imagining). Not everybody can finesse that. But some can.

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(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The other woman - 3/9/2010 1:56:54 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

damn I have often broken rules 2, 6, 7, 8 and 9 and I still seem to find men of my own. I choose being authentic over pretence any day.



guidelines not rules... and even so, all rules can be broken at your own peril.
It has nothing to do with authenticity or pretence, it has more to do with smart marketing of yourself.

obviously women with the biggest wow factor don't have to adhere to any guidelines... they sometimes seem to be like honey and men just swarm to them like bees... i think it is the smell... i think their sex smell is so powerful it overrides the perfume and cigarette stink...

Nevertheless... there is a difference between attracting a man... not too difficult really... and keeping him... now here most women need a bit of skill. Many men are slippery buggers, easily distracted unless you know how to keep their attention.

(in reply to wandersalone)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The other woman - 3/9/2010 4:31:32 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		been there, tried to, failed, wont again.

the experience i had left me with the impression that actually it wasnt anything to do with me as such, but to do with the fact that *some* men approach this with a greedy glint in their eye - in a way how can you blame them - .  here in this lifestyle they dont have to be mono, they dont have to send flowers and remember anniversaries, they dont have to remember to phone, they dont have to do anything they dont particularly want to (if youre a D) and to some extent or another we subs buy into that.

so first of all dont think its anything to do with you - you just have to find youreself a guy who wants only you.  they are out there.



< Message edited by lally2 -- 3/9/2010 4:35:39 AM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The other woman - 3/9/2010 4:36:39 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

when a Man discovers that you'll be accommodating enough that he doesn't have to lie to you.


In that case, don't be accommodating, Tell them up front your looking for a monogamous relationship and if he has a problem with that, move on to the next one.


_____________________________

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(in reply to alhamdullilah)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The other woman - 3/9/2010 4:39:02 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: belladevine

In my opinion every woman becomes the other woman sooner or later. I have never met a monogamous man. Chances are if he isn't lying to me he is lying to somebody else.
Men lie and cheat. They don't really care about us. Men are sexual nomads, users and abusers. I don't care about monogamy any more, just show me the money.
HAHAHA Most men have lied and cheated themeslves so far into debt that there isn't any money left. Where is the dominance????


Wow, that really sucks. I feel bad for you.


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to belladevine)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The other woman - 3/9/2010 8:17:18 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		C&R, I see a big distinction between poly and being "the other woman." I have been in a couple of poly-ish relationships, but everyone involved was being honest and communicating with each other. "The other woman" implies that he is sneaking around behind his wife (or SO's) back. I would not have anything to do with a man who would to that, and I would warn his SO about his behaviour if I knew how to contact her.

krikket, I've almost always met his family, and we've either had a lot of mutual friends, or have met each others' friends. I haven't met my Master's family yet, since they live out of state, but he has mentioned to them that I'm dating him. I don't *think* that any of the men I've dated have cheated on me, but I'm pretty darned sure that if one of them did, she, rather than I, would be considered "the other woman."

alhamdulilla, the first man I reacted to submissively wanted me to be in a poly secondary relationship with him, even though he was single. He wanted to be free to find a primary girlfriend, and was fine with me looking for a nice vanilla guy to get the romantic stuff from. I didn't feel comfortable separating out those aspects that way, so I turned him down. It's not exactly what you're talking about, but I definitely would have felt unimportant to him. I don't want to be anyone's "Insignificant Other." I think you deserve better than that, too.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 60
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