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God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 3:27:27 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		Maybe this answers why we can't get anything done in this country.

After all, it's not really our responsibility.



God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say


livescience.com – Wed Mar 10, 10:46 am ET

Most Americans believe God is involved in their everyday lives and concerned with their personal well-being, though the well-educated and higher earners are less likely than their counterparts to believe in such divine intervention, a new study suggests.

Scott Schieman, a sociology professor at the University of Toronto, examined data from two recent national surveys of Americans and their beliefs about God's involvement in their everyday lives.

The results, published in the March issue of the journal Sociology of Religion, suggest these beliefs differ across education and income levels. Past research has suggested other factors involved with our religious beliefs, with one study revealing teachers are more religious than other college grads, and another suggesting women are more likely than men to believe in God.

Here are some highlights from the new findings:
  • 82 percent of participants reported that they depend on God for help and guidance in making decisions.
  • 71 percent said they believe that when good or bad things happen, these occurrences are simply part of God's plan for them.
  • 61 percent indicated they believe God has determined the direction and course of their lives.
  • 32 percent agreed with the statement: "There is no sense in planning a lot because ultimately my fate is in God's hands."

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 3:30:54 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Status: offline 		I see nothing wrong with this, I've been know at times to toss a coin.

Sometimes the decision isn't as important as making the decision, when time is of the essence.


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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 3:43:19 PM   
mcbride


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Alas, you have it backward. People who have faith have greater responsibility

Here are two short quotes from someone who got something done, Martin Luther King, Jr. on the subject:

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 3:46:28 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Status: offline 		What do either of those quotes have to do with faith? I don't need faith to spot evil.

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 3:47:45 PM   
Jeffff


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Status: offline 		Nothing. it is unrelated to faith.

As a matter of fact, This
32 percent agreed with the statement: "There is no sense in planning a lot because ultimately my fate is in God's hands."

And These

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.

Would seem to be opposed


< Message edited by Jeffff -- 3/10/2010 3:50:20 PM >

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:03:07 PM   
maybemaybenot


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I would agree with the first... I aks for God's guidance when making decisions in that I ask him help me keep his laws in mind as I go through the decion making process.

As for the other three. I couldn't disagree more:

God making good or bad things happen..  for me it is about being given " free will" and events are the result of man's free will

God determining the course of our lives: Again free will. He put us here, he will take us out of here, but the in between time is ours to live according to his laws or not. Up for grabs, consequenses at our own peril.

Not planning.. I don't even get that one.

Just my 2 cents worth.

                  mbmbn


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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:05:32 PM   
maybemaybenot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride


Alas, you have it backward. People who have faith have greater responsibility

Here are two short quotes from someone who got something done, Martin Luther King, Jr. on the subject:

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.



Not one of his more well known quotes, McBride. I always liked it tho. He was addressing the war in Viet Nam tho. It wasn't a " religious " sermon.

                       mbmbn

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:05:41 PM   
Smutmonger


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I don't need a supreme being to help me to decide that doing right by others pays off more times than not.

All you have to do is to pay attention. Seriously?

The Bible shows THIS god condoning and doing an incredible amount of evil. I think I can do better.

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:11:18 PM   
maybemaybenot


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Status: offline 		Smutmonger:

I don't see anywhere in that article where the God they are speaking of is the " Christian God ".  I don't see any specs on the diversity of the poll group as to religious affiliation. Christians, Jews and many Muslims call their Supreme being God.

My above answers are based on my understanding of the Christian God. But I betcha right here on CM, there are Jews and Muslims who are pondering the poll according to their understanding of their God.

                                          mbmbn

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:11:21 PM   
mcbride


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

What do either of those quotes have to do with faith? I don't need faith to spot evil.


No, you don't, and good for you, but they're obviously tied to King's faith, which drove what he did, and like much of his work, they were part of sermons to the people who worked in the civil rights movement, and very much a part of the Christian ethos.  They answer the notion that some sort of passivity is attached to faith, and therefore "we can't get anything done in this country".

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:16:29 PM   
mcbride


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I would find it a bit tricky to point to a moral or ethical point of his and suggest that it was outside or separated from his faith. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride


Alas, you have it backward. People who have faith have greater responsibility

Here are two short quotes from someone who got something done, Martin Luther King, Jr. on the subject:

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.



Not one of his more well known quotes, McBride. I always liked it tho. He was addressing the war in Viet Nam tho. It wasn't a " religious " sermon.

                      mbmbn

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:16:31 PM   
Smutmonger


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Status: offline 		People have been using "God's will" as a cop out ever since the first caveman found a little root that looked semi human-and decided it was sacred.

We do have free will-that's the excuse for evil as well. There are things in life that cannot be controlled-they reside in the realms of chaos.

Most religion has only been some sort of attempt to control the primeval from time immemorial. But conscience and getting along cannot be mandated-that has never worked. It only leads to more fighting and chaos as different systems vy for the pole position.

Better in the long run to just scrap those systems,and promote personal accountability instead. But that would be too difficult-so it will never happen.

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:20:26 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride
No, you don't, and good for you, but they're obviously tied to King's faith, which drove what he did, and like much of his work, they were part of sermons to the people who worked in the civil rights movement, and very much a part of the Christian ethos. They answer the notion that some sort of passivity is attached to faith, and therefore "we can't get anything done in this country".


I doubt you could tell from a hundred biographies what specifically drove him.

To me the speech seems similar to the intent of Martin Niemöller's poem, not specifically about religious people but all people in society and what they at times allow to happen through inaction.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 3/10/2010 4:21:32 PM >

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:35:45 PM   
mcbride


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I'm not sure that we need to psychoanalyze what drove him to know the philosophical and ethical basis for he what he said, given that he spent his adult life pursuing it.

I don't mind repeating: no, neither quote is explicitly aimed at religious people, but both reflect his beliefs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
I doubt you could tell from a hundred biographies what specifically drove him.

To me the speech seems similar to the intent of Martin Niemöller's poem, not specifically about religious people but all people in society and what they at times allow to happen through inaction.



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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:36:08 PM   
maybemaybenot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

People have been using "God's will" as a cop out ever since the first caveman found a little root that looked semi human-and decided it was sacred.

We do have free will-that's the excuse for evil as well. There are things in life that cannot be controlled-they reside in the realms of chaos.

Most religion has only been some sort of attempt to control the primeval from time immemorial. But conscience and getting along cannot be mandated-that has never worked. It only leads to more fighting and chaos as different systems vy for the pole position.

Better in the long run to just scrap those systems,and promote personal accountability instead. But that would be too difficult-so it will never happen.


Two comments:
1- Free will does not just pertain to our own individual free will. Example : why did little susie, only 2 year old die of leukemia ? She didn't do anything to have God take her away and the free will thing couldn't possibly apply to a 2 year old.

Perhaps little susie's home was on a nuclear waste dump that some irresponible prick secretly dumped plutonium on 30 years ago. It's not about individuals free will, it's about Man's free will. And the free will of some one hundreds of years ago can affect us now. Whether you believe in God or not, that is simply the truth.

2- I believe that my own religion does promote personal responsibility, so we kinda agree. And my understanding of other religions does as well. I will not speak on their behalf, but that is my understanding.

Live and let live, my friend. I want to believe in my God and live by my religious guidelines and you have the perfect right not to believe, and to think my beliefs arefoolish. Perhaps if you respected my right to believe as much as I respected your right not to, the world would be a much happier place.

                      mbmbn

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:38:13 PM   
Smutmonger


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Status: offline 		My issues with religion are more about those who refuse to respect my desire to live life free of it. Try doing this during your holidays.

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

People have been using "God's will" as a cop out ever since the first caveman found a little root that looked semi human-and decided it was sacred.

We do have free will-that's the excuse for evil as well. There are things in life that cannot be controlled-they reside in the realms of chaos.

Most religion has only been some sort of attempt to control the primeval from time immemorial. But conscience and getting along cannot be mandated-that has never worked. It only leads to more fighting and chaos as different systems vy for the pole position.

Better in the long run to just scrap those systems,and promote personal accountability instead. But that would be too difficult-so it will never happen.


Two comments:
1- Free will does not just pertain to our own individual free will. Example : why did little susie, only 2 year old die of leukemia ? She didn't do anything to have God take her away and the free will thing couldn't possibly apply to a 2 year old.

Perhaps little susie's home was on a nuclear waste dump that some irresponible prick secretly dumped plutonium on 30 years ago. It's not about individuals free will, it's about Man's free will. And the free will of some one hundreds of years ago can affect us now. Whether you believe in God or not, that is simply the truth.

2- I believe that my own religion does promote personal responsibility, so we kinda agree. And my understanding of other religions does as well. I will not speak on their behalf, but that is my understanding.

Live and let live, my friend. I want to believe in my God and live by my religious guidelines and you have the perfect right not to believe, and to think my beliefs arefoolish. Perhaps if you respected my right to believe as much as I respected your right not to, the world would be a much happier place.

                     mbmbn


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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:41:22 PM   
maybemaybenot


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Status: offline 		I would agree that his opinion on the Viet Nam war was sown from his religious views, but the speech itself was not a sermon, it was a speech at a church to denounce the war. I speak at churches and temples about slavery < the real kind, not this kind > while my own personal crusade against it has some rooting in my religious beliefs, my activism work is not of a religious nature.

                       mbmbn

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:44:11 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

I don't see anywhere in that article where the God they are speaking of is the " Christian God "....

I think many people believe in something greater, often more something within us than "out there" somewhere, and something which has little to do with the God of the Bible viewed literally, or with the doctrinal teachings of any Western faith. It often happens that someone will pull quotes from the Bible as an example of how ridiculous "God" is, and how unworthy the entity described on those pages would be of devotion even if he existed. But a lot of people believe in something greater without really buying into that whole schtick, even if they maintain the tradition of attending services. Fundamentalist types would consider them believers "in name only" (if not worse). And some people reading these polls may shudder and think of Fundamentalists. But I don't believe that the matter can be so neatly sliced and diced. For starters, as you have observed, the central term on which the whole question turns is undefined. One person who believes in God may not believe in anything at all like what another person, answering the same question, believes in.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/10/2010 4:54:19 PM >

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:56:51 PM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		You know, I'm really not that bothered whether most Americans think God intervenes or guides them actively in life.

I'm only worried about that in relation to the tiny proportion of Americans who have it in their power to bring down all holy shit on the world.

E

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RE: God Helps with Personal Decisions, Most Americans Say - 3/10/2010 4:59:50 PM   
mcbride


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quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

I would agree that his opinion on the Viet Nam war was sown from his religious views, but the speech itself was not a sermon, it was a speech at a church to denounce the war. I speak at churches and temples about slavery < the real kind, not this kind > while my own personal crusade against it has some rooting in my religious beliefs, my activism work is not of a religious nature.


That's very cool, btw...I was just researching some human trafficking stuff.

But about that speech: Even as a minister of God, speaking in a church, at a meeting of Clergy and Laity Concerned, he was pretty explicit about...

"[having] to live with the meaning of my commitment to the ministry of Jesus Christ. To me the relationship of this ministry to the making of peace is so obvious that I sometimes marvel at those who ask me why I am speaking against the war. Could it be that they do not know that the good news was meant for all men -- for Communist and capitalist, for their children and ours, for black and for white, for revolutionary and conservative? Have they forgotten that my ministry is in obedience to the one who loved his enemies so fully that he died for them? What then can I say to the "Vietcong" or to Castro or to Mao as a faithful minister of this one? Can I threaten them with death or must I not share with them my life?"

There's more on that theme, but I think his context is fairly clear, no?
Full text

All of which is probably more important for the OP to understand, as it relates to responsibility.

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