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RE: Conditioned or Choice - 3/18/2010 4:55:32 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

After thinking some more about your question Knight, i had always "liked" feeling the weight of my submission by being pushed to go beyond where i would want to go on my own so that i was doing what i was doing for his pleasure and know realizing that i want that feeling for myself, not as a means of strengthening the relationship but rather to meet some internal need of my own is rather unsettling. It now has me wondering if wanting that push, feeling that weight is something that i "should" want or need, as i do want to have times that i am serving for someone else's pleasure and not my own and the times that i thought i was doing that now seem tainted.


I just read this addition to your last post.

I can appreciate why this might be unsettling because you are starting to look at things from a entirely different view point than before and it's new to you.

I would also suggest that it's very likely as I said in my last post that this behavior is an internalized aspect in fullifilling a core need.

As warning... not all behaviors are by default rooted to fulfilling the core needs. To relate what I mean.. I will use an example IE... physiological we humans needs to some basic food requirements. But.. instead of eating in a manner that actually promotes our well-being... we indulge in foods that may serve some instant gratifications but on a longer term actually leads to physiological issues due to improper fulfillment of out basic physiological needs... really do we need to eat as much protein was we do? or maybe (like me..) we don't eat enough fruit... etc.

So... sometimes our behaviors might not be the best for our well-being on psychological level even though we have and do gain some instant gratifications. Ie... the addict does alot of things that make them feel good in the moment.. but the spiral downward is rather apparent as they get closer and closer to the bottom.

I am not suggesting that your behaviors are less that beneficial... In fact.. I suspect the very opposite because of so much of what you have expressed. My instinct.. is your on the right path... and you just seem to make your life better not worse as time goes on. It might be alot of internalizing already going on as you self-identify yourself.. and when that right person comes along... well... I hope to be around to see it!


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Conditioned or Choice - 3/18/2010 5:18:10 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:



So to try to answer your question, i think i need that feeling just for myself, which now really bothers me, that i need it for myself and not as a means to be closer to my Dominant. And now i am thinking why i need it.

Thank you for giving me something to think about it, it may become fodder for another thread and thank you for your reply.

heartfelt



I suggest that you consider how you feel about yourself as you have those experiences of submission. I suspect that you actually feel good about yourself. You know moving through the challenge and all. Empower your ego etc.

Now.... Don't let that bother you! In fact... I think it's great!

It's my belief and something I have learned from alot of reading that we as humans have three fundamental psychological needs (Autonomy as I noted in a previous post, Relatedness and Competence)

often... with individuals who are well adjusted their actions will root down to fulfilling these core needs. The way I see what your describing.... it seems the actions have a fulfilling effect on Competence... My personal views have significantly been influenced by the works of Dr Ryan and Dr Deci with their Self-Determination Theory... which is in large part a motivational theory.

of course.. it's not all as simple is this post makes it appear.. I been reading and researching this theory and it's application for almost 10 years when I first came across it.

I will also suggest .... the more you go deeper into the motives of why you do it... the more you might see that this is possible an internalized aspect of who you are in order to fulfilled some very basic and core psychological needs.

As I said in another post... it would be more than a few posts to explain this.. I still feel we are only touch on the tip of the iceberg!


You are correct, when i have made it through a very hard scene with the Sadist that i used to play with, i always felt very good about myself and moving through the challenge. And it did make me feel like i had accomplished something.

Thinking about the other times that i have felt that feeling, it was when i was more vulnerable and open than i thought i could be. To me being emotionally vulnerable, i have always seen that as a weakness, so maybe part of what i get out of being pushed in those instances, is more of a closeness with my Dominant and a feeling of being accepted when i am at my "weakest".

i have a feeling that there is a whole lot more down there that is motivating me to need to feel the weight of my submission, a whole tip of the iceberg that you were alluding to.

Thank you again for your replies,
heartfelt

< Message edited by heartfeltsub -- 3/18/2010 5:23:34 PM >


_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Conditioned or Choice - 3/18/2010 5:29:57 PM   
KnightofMists


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Joined: 7/29/2005
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Your very welcome... I have enjoyed and benefited from the exchange

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Conditioned or Choice - 3/18/2010 5:30:31 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I am not suggesting that your behaviors are less that beneficial... In fact.. I suspect the very opposite because of so much of what you have expressed. My instinct.. is your on the right path... and you just seem to make your life better not worse as time goes on. It might be alot of internalizing already going on as you self-identify yourself.. and when that right person comes along... well... I hope to be around to see it!



*snipped for brevity

These posts of yours have given me a great deal to think about, to find out who really lives in there. i think when i get to the root of this, i will have a whole lot more to give to the man in my life. i look forward to seeing who i become, i feel like a layer of my onion is being pulled up to see what is underneath. As my thoughts become more coherent, i can see another thread in the future.

Thank you again for your excellent posts,
heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Conditioned or Choice - 3/18/2010 5:39:16 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
again.. your welcome.. and if you have any questions for me.... don't be afraid to ask

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Conditioned or Choice - 3/18/2010 5:44:58 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
Thank you Knight, i may have some more questions after this weekend, because i am again going to another slave's retreat at my friend's house. It was at an earlier slave's retreat that the realization that it was fear that kept me from identifying as a slave occured. i can only wonder what this retreat will bring.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 106
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