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Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based Economy - 3/16/2010 8:35:01 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		Most people would agree that the system is broken. Few will agree on which band-aid we should use to "fix" the symptoms of the broken system.

In my opinion, treating symptoms of a broken and outdated system is not the answer. Treating the cause is the more intelligent course of action.

I'm well aware that there is a formidable status quo composed of vested interests that will fight tooth and nail against real change, as well as an indoctrinated population filled with thousands, perhaps millions of self-appointed guardians of the status quo.

However, the fact that previous attempts at social change have failed is no justification for us to stop trying. The real danger lies in complacence. The only limitations to the future of humankind are those that we impose upon ourselves.

Resource-based economy orientation...

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 11:07:57 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Communism didn't work when we called it communism. It didn't work when it was called utopianism. It will not work when called "Resource based economy."

There are real problems that must be addressed but no solution that denies the basic drives of humanity will solve those problems.

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 11:15:03 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
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Status: offline 		Did you take the time to watch the orientation? 

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 11:27:54 AM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Did you take the time to watch the orientation? 


The link isn't working for me. : (

Kim

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Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 11:29:25 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Why should I? Has Fresco come up with something new in the last couple of months?

Did he change his "money is only needed to ration items needed for survival" bullshit? Little hint for you and anyone foolish enough to buy into this communism didn't fail because it fails to identify problems inherent in capitalism but because the solution it provided denied basic human drives. Fresco is identifying the same problems, undeniably these problems exist, but his solution is just as useless as communism.

Fresco goes off the rails when he caims money is somehow the root of all these problems. Money is simply a useful symbol that allows us to have an economy more sophisticated than a pure barter system. The problem is not money but the inequities inherent in a free market system.

Furthermore Fresco discounts competition and choice and believes we'd all be better off with no competition between manufacturers and with no in what to buy. This is of course absurd. Without competition and consumer choice there is no innovation. Without innovation we would stagnate as culture and some other competitive culture would quickly arise and push us aside.

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 11:52:18 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Did you take the time to watch the orientation? 


The link isn't working for me. : (

Kim


Crap... it's a bad link. And I could have sworn I checked it.

http://.google.com/videoplay?docid=3932487043163636261

(in reply to cpK69)
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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 11:54:23 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Why should I? Has Fresco come up with something new in the last couple of months?

Did he change his "money is only needed to ration items needed for survival" bullshit? Little hint for you and anyone foolish enough to buy into this communism didn't fail because it fails to identify problems inherent in capitalism but because the solution it provided denied basic human drives. Fresco is identifying the same problems, undeniably these problems exist, but his solution is just as useless as communism.

Fresco goes off the rails when he caims money is somehow the root of all these problems. Money is simply a useful symbol that allows us to have an economy more sophisticated than a pure barter system. The problem is not money but the inequities inherent in a free market system.

Furthermore Fresco discounts competition and choice and believes we'd all be better off with no competition between manufacturers and with no in what to buy. This is of course absurd. Without competition and consumer choice there is no innovation. Without innovation we would stagnate as culture and some other competitive culture would quickly arise and push us aside.


Your so-called "basic human drives" are well-addressed in the orientation.

I suggest you watch it with an open mind.

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 11:54:54 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		All economies are "resource based."

It's what economics is, the allocation of resources.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/16/2010 11:55:20 AM >

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 12:30:22 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I would tend to believe that most people do not think that the 'system' is broken. It has worked just fine for myself and nearly everyone else that I know. I say leave it alone .

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 2:04:10 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

All economies are "resource based."

It's what economics is, the allocation of resources.

You've got it. The best economies are always those have their own resources with the exception of Africa.

One resource and in fact the ultimate resource and the only real wealth...is human labor. For that resource the capitalists go to what are essentially slave states for the cheap manufacturing of goods.

Say, Viet Nam, China and Mexico where wages for approx. 80% of the population have gone from about $9/day all of the way up to gee...about $9/day in almost 20 years...since before NAFTA.

I guess India needs more 'rich' people to 'create' jobs. 40 years of 'capitalism' and she still has over 750 million people virtually living in the dirt. Where are all of their jobs ?

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 2:12:45 PM   
Slavehandsome


Posts: 382
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		Mr. Rodgers, if you had any idea of just how far along India has come, you'd spend less time armchair-quarterbacking and more time taking action. It may seem that everybody in India is still 'virtually living in the dirt', but what you fail to understand is that there are relative levels of 'living in the dirt'. You might look back on those 8-track tapes and say that anybody using those is 'living in the dirt', or that any military that uses old Soviet T-64 and T-72 models is an antiquated army 'living in the dirt'. The reality is, that the standard of living has shot way up in India, and they're creating a middle class that will soon replace the middle class in the U.S., since that's where a lot of the middle class jobs went to, when U.S. firms decided that the U.S. middle class was earning more than they should. Watch the Rupee climb as the U.S. dollar falls. Watch more U.S. firms employ Indian labor for pennies on the dollar. Watch more Indian-owned firms pop up and rise to the forefront of world markets, and when they do, don't expect them to hire a significant number of U.S. workers. I could go on.

Slavehandsome

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 2:31:04 PM   
subfever


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Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I would tend to believe that most people do not think that the 'system' is broken. It has worked just fine for myself and nearly everyone else that I know. I say leave it alone .


Allow me to ascertain that I understand you correctly:

You are fine with 2% of the people owning 50% of the wealth, 40+ million people without health insurance, a shrinking job pool, a skyrocketing deficit, war, greed, prejudice, pollution, etc., primarily because you and your neighbors are doing well at the moment?

< Message edited by subfever -- 3/16/2010 2:32:36 PM >

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 3:12:56 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		That top 2% that you mention also pay close to 50% in federal taxes in this country. The bottom 50% pay virtually nothing . Do you want some cheese with that whine ?

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 3:23:34 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

That top 2% that you mention also pay close to 50% in federal taxes in this country. The bottom 50% pay virtually nothing . Do you want some cheese with that whine ?

quote:

That top 2% that you mention also pay close to 50% in federal taxes in this country. The bottom 50% pay virtually nothing . Do you want some cheese with that whine ?


So then I clearly understood you.

Classic IGMFY. Got it.

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 3:32:35 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Good, we're clear on that..

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 3:42:20 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Good, we're clear on that..


There are many who are unconcerned about 40+ million people without health insurance, a shrinking job pool, a skyrocketing deficit, war, greed, prejudice, pollution, etc... as long as they have theirs. But few will openly admit this. So I admire your honesty.

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 3:54:59 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		You are right. But the uninsured is around 30 million not counting illigals who broke the law sneaking into this country. I also have no control over the deficit, that is in Obama's court. The war I agree with in hopes of killing every terrorist that continues to live. Greed, I don't care one way or the other. Prejudice, I'm not a bigot and don't care if others are. I have no control of what others do. Air pollution, we have laws in place now for that problem.

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 4:03:44 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

You are right. But the uninsured is around 30 million not counting illigals who broke the law sneaking into this country. I also have no control over the deficit, that is in Obama's court. The war I agree with in hopes of killing every terrorist that continues to live. Greed, I don't care one way or the other. Prejudice, I'm not a bigot and don't care if others are. I have no control of what others do. Air pollution, we have laws in place now for that problem.


I don't seek to split hairs on each of these issues here, and derail my own OP. But I am curious... have you taken the time to watch the orientation? I'd be particularly interested in hearing direct critique of the presentation from someone on your end of the political spectrum.

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 4:07:45 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I don't waste time worrying about things that I have no control over. I hope that you and Brain never have dinner together. You will give each other a heart attack.

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RE: Food for Thought - Moving Towards A Resource-Based ... - 3/16/2010 4:10:16 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I would tend to believe that most people do not think that the 'system' is broken. It has worked just fine for myself and nearly everyone else that I know. I say leave it alone .


You always forget that you are an idiot. Thus, all folks like you, must be idiots by proxy. They are just too dumb to realize they are being duped.

_____________________________



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