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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 11:28:41 AM

willowspirit

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lizi, UniqueRaven, and takeme...
Wow, I can relate very personally to almost everything each of you wrote. Excellent! lizi -- your insights were wonderful.

I was raised in a strict household, but not really abusive. Corporal punishment was used, but not often. Parents made mistakes, some spankings were "unfair", but nothing "turned me". I swear I was born as a submissive female -- personality is very much centered around having a "slave heart".

Edited to add --

Abuse and victimization came from outside the home. Preditors found me fairly easily.

< Message edited by willowspirit -- 3/17/2010 11:32:10 AM >

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Post #: 41

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 11:39:56 AM

wisdomtogive

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In my life, there has been a lot of abuse. What I took from it? I choose everyday to not wear the clothing of a victim. It is through the understanding of my past and my own patterns, being a victim of any relationship is not going to happen any more, at least for too long of a period. Red flags will be acknowledge and i will make a decision to stay or not. This knowledge has helped me to make healthy choices in regards to D/s or M/s relationships, since an opportunity to stay in an abusive relationship was on my plate. I stepped back and asked myself some serious questions, and walked away.

Another factor for my way of living is to not hold anyone in my past as having power over me. I have cut all emotional cords, because my time and energy is too valuable in my life. Giving it attention, only depletes how i can serve my Goddess/God, Sir, career, etc today.

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Post #: 42

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 11:50:03 AM

PeonForHer

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I was never abused either, faded.

I don't know if there's a link between being abused and a later desire to get into D/s relationships. I do know, though, that every sexual behaviour seen as 'aberrant' in the past has been blamed on childhood abuse at one time or another.

My own feeling is that the sexual drives are too deep and too primitive for psychologists to have reached them. Nonetheless, the world will always abound with arrogant tits who reckon that they, alone, can understand such primal drives.

The whole history of psychology is full of this phenomenon. I'll always fondly remember one of Freud's first targets of criticism, who thought that psychological problems were down to problems with the nasal linings. Then, later, the behaviourists all argued furiously that Freud and the entire psychoanalytic school were a lot of quacks who simply couldn't know what they claimed to know. It was a travesty of science, they said. Then, later still, a bunch of psychologists decided that the behaviourists were themselves being nutty by trying to exclude the human mind from the equation in their efforts to reduce the human behaviour to drives that were identical to those of monkeys or rats. Cognitive psychology was born. Lots of other schools sprouted, too.

Pfft. They say that if you want three completely contradictory views of the economy, just ask three economists. The human mind is the most complicated thing in the known universe. I'd take the whole subject of psychology not with a pinch of salt, but a fleet of truckloads worth of it.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 3/17/2010 11:52:39 AM >

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 11:55:58 AM

came4U

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speaking on those terms PeonforHer, I wonder what people thought was more apt to be 'more dangerous' / or uncomfortable of a situation, the Dom/me that was abused and did not find appropriate therapy (if necessary) or the submissive??? (or does it matter which sex or orientation a person is, at all??)

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/17/2010 11:56:58 AM >

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Post #: 44

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 12:03:17 PM

PeonForHer

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I don't know, came4U. I suspect, though, that the general opinion amongst these headbanging shrinks is that the desire to be submissive is nuttier than the desire to be dominant. Almost every theory in psychology, economics, politics or sociology is premised on the assumption that people have a desire for power, not the relinquishing of power.

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Post #: 45

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 12:08:32 PM

came4U

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well, there is no cultural universal on the topic of dominance and authority, but it is often the case that submission is considered a weakness of character, not necessarily the reaction to a 'dominant' in such position. That itself is against the norm of ideals in this/CM environment at present. That observed (by society in general) 'weakness' is viewed as mental illness or quite simply one's refusal to be responsible for themselves. Not to mention even Dominance as a charactaristic (in this form) is looked at as being politically (in the broader sense) incorrect.

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/17/2010 12:10:19 PM >

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 12:41:22 PM

DesFIP

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Putting aside the issue of childhood abuse, I have spoken to a number of masochists who had had abusive vanilla relationships. Some of them concluded that they were drawn to such relationships in an effort to get their pain needs met, not knowing that there was a safer way to do so. Once they discovered there were such things as ethical sadists, they stopped getting into abusive relationships.

Now me, I've decided that I'm submissive as the result of an inherited mood disorder. Chronic clinical depression from age 9 until it lifted in my late 20s. Battling yourself everyday to do anything gives you a strong distaste for taking on more responsibility. I'm happier with someone else making the hard decisions as it takes too damn much energy out of me.

As to where the love of bondage came from? No idea. But no abusive background here, in my family we talk our kids into compliance, we don't hit. Takes longer but eventually they get the idea.

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Post #: 47

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 1:03:50 PM

came4U

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Funny you said that DesFIP, about inheriting.

My mom wasn't a sub, more Domme (in occupation and life) that I know of (*unknown/dunno about her sex life) but in regards to bondage, I did (as an adult) find bondage magazines (big shocker) at her place when she developed alzheimers and I had to clean her apartment. lol., now THAT freaked me out. So maybe that (love of bondage) is hereditary too, who knows. Freaky.

quote:

I'm happier with someone else making the hard decisions as it takes too damn much energy out of me.

I understand that too, all to well. I might be educated but don't know how to pay bills (not that I've ever tried), I just refuse to and am enabled so. Just the thought of doing so, disrupts me to panic.

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/17/2010 1:25:52 PM >

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Post #: 48

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 7:22:23 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
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Two things...

1) My PERSONAL EXPERIENCE has been:

a) S-Types = Many have had a history of either abuse, or some type of mental/emotional/personality issue.

b) D-Types = Many are insecure (and losers), and this dynamic provides a pseudo sense of control in an otherwise out-of-control life.

2) An article I've always found interesting ---> The Connection Between Kink & Abuse

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Post #: 49

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 8:20:30 PM

sweetboundesire

Posts: 285
Joined: 10/29/2009
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my problem with this whole question is that there has to be something "wrong" with a person to find fulfillment in bdsm.

when i sought out to fulfill a long time desire, I learned the depths of appreciation for that finding. I cannot see a relationship without this aspect, now, moving forward. Vanilla just seems so boring and full of too much drama.

The only drama I desire is to be tied up and at the mercy of the one i trust and am captured with. The only drama I want is the pain, the submission and have it covered in cum.

i don't like it that some seem to have to find a rhyme or reason to it. There are equally enough f**d up vanilla relationships with f###d up childhoods. I don't know the ratio's here but some folks are just aware of their needs and what needs fulfilling.
There are much darker things to be into and those no one goes to a messageboard to confess.

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 10:44:42 PM

MasterJackal

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Joined: 3/15/2010
From: Indiana
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Yeah dude I think so This girl I've been talking to said something that makes sense She said she thinks it's natural to want some form of what happened to you from someone who will reassure you that they love you so that you can heal from the past where it happened and you didn't feel loved

I probably got that all wrong but she said it's like if a woman is raped her man's most natural response is to want to take her and make her his own again by fucking her and that this is something that works in nature because if two men fuck the same woman (rape or otherwise) the sperm of the second man inside her actually eats up the sperm of the first man

It was all complicated Don't anybody think I'm saying rape is all right! That's not what I mean It's that a lot of women want to be held and made love to after that shit happens and a lot of men want to reclaim her as theirs. So it works!

That's what she told me.

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Post #: 51

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 10:46:00 PM

Smutmonger

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Yes,they want it to happen again in a healing way-with someone who cares this time.

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Post #: 52

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 10:52:24 PM

alhamdullilah

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Joined: 2/18/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJackal

if two men fuck the same woman (rape or otherwise) the sperm of the second man inside her actually eats up the sperm of the first man

That's what she told me.

OMG... Really?!

I can't decide if that is so awesome or totally freeking creepy!!

(in reply to MasterJackal)

Post #: 53

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 10:56:28 PM

Smutmonger

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My baby is a cannibal!

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Post #: 54

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 11:03:24 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
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lol @ sperm eating other sperm.

but seriously, it is not a proven theory, it is just a theory: Warrior sperm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py8zpk322eY

*lol at 'these guys spent their whole life studying sperm' well, hell, who hasn't??

< Message edited by came4U -- 3/17/2010 11:05:23 PM >

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 11:16:25 PM

DamagedPheonix

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/3/2009
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You make assumptions about your data. So it seems that most people you've run into in the BDSM community have stories of abuse of one sort or another.

But you don't ask yourself about the number of vanilla people who have stories of abuse. Odds are, they're not going to tell you either. But in the kink community, we're more comfortable talking about controversial issues.

When negotiating with a sub for example, you really HAVE to know about issues in their past that might be triggers today.

Just because we're more comfortable talking about these things doesn't necessarily mean it's more prevalent here than among the vanilla community.

(in reply to came4U)

Post #: 56

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 11:41:37 PM

Hawkwindblues

Posts: 183
Joined: 6/26/2009
From: Berlin, Germany
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quote:

the sperm of the second man inside her actually eats up the sperm of the first man

No. Read something about biology before you write such a statement. As mentioned above it is a theroy, a theory is a theory until it is proven.

< Message edited by Hawkwindblues -- 3/17/2010 11:42:55 PM >

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/17/2010 11:47:49 PM

alhamdullilah

Posts: 81
Joined: 2/18/2010
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LMAO! I'm sorry. Can't help it. I'm still contemplating the winner-take-all wars that have been waged within me... the fierce fight for life... HOW many times, HOW many warriors have lost their lives that they might make of my womb their own???

I just joshin'! I not that kinda girl!!!

***
Edited to add, respectfully, I do have to clarify that he said someone told him this, which isn't to say that he's claiming an advanced degree in biology. Not my intention to speak for you, MasterJackal. Just an observation. Anyway, I think it's good food for thought! (Get it?? Food - - for thought!? No? Okay.)

< Message edited by alhamdullilah -- 3/18/2010 12:01:29 AM >

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Post #: 58

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/18/2010 12:00:21 AM

bloomswell

Posts: 52
Status: offline

Abuse here. Eventually provoking abuse was the only way I could get attention. Puberty hit around the same time and just as the Sleeping Princess woke up and fell in love with the first person she saw, I formed a few inter-weaved associations that could never be unbound. I'm not complaining. I survived albeit with poor confidence. Play acting this stuff is, as the cliche goes, a way of reclaiming and owning the hurt by making it fun.
Disclaimer: My experience only. Everyone's journey is different.

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Post #: 59

RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/18/2010 12:05:41 AM

came4U

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Sperm does 'block' others, but it also blocks sperm from the same DNA,

"Even such sacred notions as sperm existing with the "goal" of seeking and fertilizing the prized egg are turned on their head. Baker describes at least three types of distinctly different sperm, each with an apparently different mission. The "egg-getters," those who match our usual characterization of the typical sperm, in actuality comprise only 1% or less of the sperm in a man's ejaculate. Other sperm appear to function as "blockers" of women's cervical crypts or "egg-killers" who attack foreign sperm. Baker also discusses the discovery of specialized sperm that may kill a man's own egg-getters under certain prescribed circumstances." Sperm Wars: The Science of Sex. Robin Baker

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Sperm+Wars:+The+Science+of+Sex-a020746731

but: "Lest you think that all of this talk of biology results in a "dry" reading experience, realize that Sperm Wars was written for public consumption, and as such does not contain one formal reference, no mention of other researchers, and no subject index. Instead, the author has taken his insights into the biology of sexual behaviorsexual behavior A person's sexual practices–ie, whether he/she engages in heterosexual or homosexual activity. See Sex life, Sexual life.
..... Click the link for more information., mixed in a fair amount of speculation, and presents the results through 37 narrative "scenes."

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Post #: 60

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