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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/18/2010 12:08:55 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		lol, sometimes it is not the fineprintfucking point you have to worry about.

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/18/2010 12:23:52 PM   
willowspirit


Posts: 164
Joined: 6/20/2005
From: U.S.A.-Minnesota
Status: offline 		fadedshadow---
Okay, let's take sort of a "reverse engineering" approach to this one.

If all abuse mysteriously disappeared in the vanilla world, torture ended, and all was sweetness and light -- would bdsm, O/our D/s -M/s - S & M lifestyles and kink also disappear?

I say No, on several counts.
First, DNA.
Human beings are BORN with personalities that range far and wide on the dominant to submissive scale. BDSM techniques (What It Is That We Do) are just instinctive manifestations of the boardering fringes of a completely normal range in human diversity.

We could go into the "Nature VS. Nurture" debate, but what a waste of time that would be in this venue.

A personal take on this -- I would do whatever to seek out a Man who would make me feel safe under His overtly demonstrated strength.

My paternal grandmother was also a "out-in-the-deep-end" submissive. She married one abusive man after another, in my opinion, in a desperate search for a Real Dominant (who she didn't find until she was in her 60s).

She didn't "give" out of weakness, or love to the point of chosen self-sacrifice as a result of abuse. It was IN her to DO SO!


Second,
it's part of human nature to seek new experiences physically, sexually... to experiment with sensations. For those in this bdsm thing for these reasons, it is just as natural and instinctive for them to this. Whether they come into this experimentation based on ideas that resulted from former abuse -- Or In The Absence of ABUSE -- using simple creativity, cause and effect, blind stumbling around in the dark, word will spread, and bdsm will exist anyway.

I still hold to my premises that abusers seek out easy victims. Birth-personality submissive types are in that category, and that people who want to act out anger and abuse issues "lurk" here.

BUT -- BOTTOM LINE -- Abusers are NOT Dominants. They are interlopers in my world.

Thoughtful use and pushing limits, in mutual consent, is not abuse.



(in reply to fadedshadow)
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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/18/2010 4:33:37 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

The percentage of those who have been abused is the same whether you are a member of a church, a bowling league, a book club or bdsm.


This isn't a snarky response - but  is this based on intuition or hard data?

The reason I ask is that I have a gut feeling that it may well be the case that BDSM attracts a slightly higher than average proportion of people who have encountered abuse than other groups but I strongly doubt that it's much higher and I have absolutely no hard facts to back up my guess.


I did a web search, typed in 'statistics on abuse'.
These are only the reported numbers, estimates are higher when considering those cases that are not reported.
1 in 4 women were molested before they were an adult.
1 in 7 males are molested before age of 17
2 million cases of little people abuse and neglect are reported annually
1 in 6 women, 1 in 33 men have been sexually assaulted
And I didn't even get to domestic abuse.

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/19/2010 7:53:22 AM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline 		thanks everyone, i'm very glad i've gotten so many informative and honest responses. i'm really grateful ^_^

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/20/2010 7:52:41 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fadedshadow

I have been pondering this for a while now so i'd like to ask you here. It seems that everyone in the lifestyle that i've become good friends with has suffered from abuse in the past. I'm not exception. This got me thinking, is there a link between BDSM and abuse? Like are people who have suffered like this more likely to become more involved in the lifestyle? And i know the lifestyle isn't abusive at all, this was just something i was pondering. Please offer your opinions.


Please catch up on your research and you will find that BDSMers are no more or less likely to come from abuse than anyone else.  That they do is a flsehood.

LBO

(in reply to fadedshadow)
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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/21/2010 9:47:22 AM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline 		@ LeatherBentOne, it was just something i was thinking about. This wasn't me trying to convince anyone that people are more likely to be attracted to BDSM because they were abused. I apologize if i caused any confusion regarding that

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/21/2010 10:10:58 AM   
Wolf2Bear


Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fadedshadow

I have been pondering this for a while now so i'd like to ask you here. It seems that everyone in the lifestyle that i've become good friends with has suffered from abuse in the past. I'm not exception. This got me thinking, is there a link between BDSM and abuse? Like are people who have suffered like this more likely to become more involved in the lifestyle? And i know the lifestyle isn't abusive at all, this was just something i was pondering. Please offer your opinions.


From what I have seem and talking with friends who are also kinksters, I don't see any correlation between people who were abused in the past and being an active kinkster. Yes many people are abused as children and reaching adulthood, they have no desire to be part of the kink community in any shape way or form. I also personally know many kinksters who's childhood was free from abuse and were raised in a healthy family dynamic. In my own case, I was a victim of childhood molesting from a relative. If I was to specifically sate why I define myself as a kinkster it is because I have always been drawn to situations and experiences which are considered non mainstream or offbeat. This was true when I was child and it still holds true as a 49 yr old adult.


_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/21/2010 10:18:30 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fadedshadow

@ LeatherBentOne, it was just something i was thinking about. This wasn't me trying to convince anyone that people are more likely to be attracted to BDSM because they were abused. I apologize if i caused any confusion regarding that


My bad.  I really didn't mean to sound abrasive.  Sorry if I seemed to have taken things out of context and jumped on you. 

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/21/2010 11:18:37 AM   
DickSteel


Posts: 148
Joined: 3/20/2010
From: Man of Mystery & Intrigue
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: fadedshadow

I have been pondering this for a while now so i'd like to ask you here. It seems that everyone in the lifestyle that i've become good friends with has suffered from abuse in the past. I'm not exception. This got me thinking, is there a link between BDSM and abuse? Like are people who have suffered like this more likely to become more involved in the lifestyle? And i know the lifestyle isn't abusive at all, this was just something i was pondering. Please offer your opinions.


Please catch up on your research and you will find that BDSMers are no more or less likely to come from abuse than anyone else. That they do is a flsehood.

LBO

Speaking of research, I read the psych books, the sex studies and still read the magazines and stay current with forensic psychology. As you can see, I have a sincere interest psychology. I would LOVE to read the reference material that gave you the impression BDSMers are “no more or less likely to come from abuse”. The research I have read suggests the contrary. I have read that a society based on common sexual deviations and fetishes, deviations that are often caused by trauma, would be much more likely to come from abuse than the vanilla world.

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/21/2010 11:55:07 AM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne

My bad.  I really didn't mean to sound abrasive.  Sorry if I seemed to have taken things out of context and jumped on you. 


it's cool, i just wanted to make it clear. so there's no need to apologize =]

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RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/21/2010 2:17:23 PM   
Wolf2Bear


Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DickSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: fadedshadow

I have been pondering this for a while now so i'd like to ask you here. It seems that everyone in the lifestyle that i've become good friends with has suffered from abuse in the past. I'm not exception. This got me thinking, is there a link between BDSM and abuse? Like are people who have suffered like this more likely to become more involved in the lifestyle? And i know the lifestyle isn't abusive at all, this was just something i was pondering. Please offer your opinions.


Please catch up on your research and you will find that BDSMers are no more or less likely to come from abuse than anyone else. That they do is a flsehood.

LBO

Speaking of research, I read the psych books, the sex studies and still read the magazines and stay current with forensic psychology. As you can see, I have a sincere interest psychology. I would LOVE to read the reference material that gave you the impression BDSMers are “no more or less likely to come from abuse”. The research I have read suggests the contrary. I have read that a society based on common sexual deviations and fetishes, deviations that are often caused by trauma, would be much more likely to come from abuse than the vanilla world.


I find what I bolded to be quite an interesting piece of data. And if that is actuality, then it completely contradicts what I posted and what I have always presumed.


_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to DickSteel)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/21/2010 2:50:02 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

This got me thinking, is there a link between BDSM and abuse? Like are people who have suffered like this more likely to become more involved in the lifestyle?

I don't see that this is like...being bitten by a werewolf, and then becoming.  My mother and sister were victims of abusive vanilla husbands, yet both of them won't venture into BDSM.  I've known a lot of people who were abused and did not become kinky as a result. 

I feel I was born with a sensitive power exchange antenna <grins> 
I don't know whether to blame old Hollywood movies, and cartoons (pictures Snidely Whiplash tying up that girl, oh my!), or thank them for basically feeding me eye candy.

It's only my own opinion, but I think past abuse might make it harder to get into exploring BDSM, and more difficult to be understood and accepted. 

It would be like asking for more of the same past abuse, until someone really gets to understand what this is really about.  When I "came out" to my family, my mother and sister freaked, thinking that I wanted to be abused, and then later worrying that I wanted to be abusive to men. 

(in reply to fadedshadow)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/22/2010 6:30:27 AM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline 		thank you both =]

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/22/2010 7:42:09 AM   
PrimalConsonance


Posts: 463
Joined: 7/11/2009
From: Southern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

lol @ sperm eating other sperm.

but seriously, it is not a proven theory, it is just a theory: Warrior sperm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py8zpk322eY

*lol at 'these guys spent their whole life studying sperm' well, hell, who hasn't??


Now that is great!  Warrior sperm...I don't care if it's true or not, I just like the term.  Battle kitty is another one.  Love it!  Great theory, but in my opinion; I would suppose that there might be some truth to it, but to add to that theory...what of three sets of sperm warriors getting at it?


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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss


(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/22/2010 9:02:02 AM   
PrimalConsonance


Posts: 463
Joined: 7/11/2009
From: Southern New Jersey
Status: offline 		The connection between BDSM and abuse is there, but not the sole reason for the pursuit of kink.  And certainly, there are those with no apparent direct connection between the two for some people.  We could go into the "chicken vs. egg" argument of which came first between what promoted the first act of kink between two people, but fantasy and imagination's fuel comes from the influences that the mind conscious and unconscious receive and play with when fantasies are developed. The need for approval or acceptance is usually a strong trait in nearly all of us.  Other motivators in behavior and the science of human response to motivators like this, may have some primary influence; but are refined with secondary and other finer and subtler influences with exposure to the things and times of our relevant and subjective times.  The one thing it isn't, is there having to be a direct "if-and-then" approach to what makes us want to do what we want to do. 

There was talk about genetics or hereditary influence as well.  Since there is evidence of changes in DNA directly influenced in the offspring of survivors during stress and famine during the early part of the 20th century, and these imprinted changes had profound physical and possibly emotional tolerances in not only certain communities but possibly on a greater population.  Could it be a form of "Quorum Sensing" going on that might be at work here?  Maybe not, or maybe so.  Maybe there's a gene for it:  The Kink Gene...The Slave Gene...The Dominant Gene - well I think we would have to change the name of that one (too confusing). 

It's only kink, but I like it...  

_____________________________

AKA: CNJDom (types in black) and roselaure (types in Red)


Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss


(in reply to PrimalConsonance)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: BDSM and abuse - 3/22/2010 2:54:50 PM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline 		thanks, PrimalConsonance

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: BDSM and abuse - 4/21/2010 8:20:04 PM   
SlaveSubtoserve


Posts: 282
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrimalConsonance

I feel that there is a correlation between BDSM and abuse on the bell curve of kink, and I would say a good number have been touched (in a bad way) or effected by some form of abuse.  Abuse doesn't have to be physical or sexual, but also can manifest in a mental way.  You don't have to be beaten everyday to be subjected to some form of abuse.  A withdrawal of affection, or a lack of praise and approval, can sometimes be just as damaging as a punch. 

But with any bell curve, you will find those with no history of any abuse and are just kinky little pervs for whatever floats their boat.  And you will also find those that find BDSM as an extension of their abuse from a younger time.  It reminds me of a phrase I once heard concerning torture..."The best form of torture, is where the victim begins to torture themselves [unaided by outside influences]."  So how you picture yourself on this curve, doesn't mean anything bad or good except what you do with it.  For some, BDSM has had a more therapeutic outcome for them to be able to deal with their past and be exceptionally functional in their present.  I have known a few in this situation, and it warms my heart to see someone take something negative and make it not only a positive, but also a vehicle of obtaining genuine happiness and contentment.    



I was never physically abused in childhood or in any relationship but the highlighted words above characterize how i grew up. I was basically neglected and left to myself and I compensated for that by being a good girl - hoping to get positive attention. I personally have found in D/s a breathtaking amount (for me) of attention. When I'm with a partner I just feel  like there is a spot light on me, and us, and it feeds me. It's easier for me to accept attention coming to me if its not completely based on me...if it's within the framework of pleasing someone else. I long for that connection that can exist between the two people involved.

I feel as though a lot of female s types have evolved into that by not necessarily having negative physical attention - although that certainly happens - but by being neglected emotionally. You try to get attention by being good...it's harder for girls to act out in an overt negative way. You start trying to anticipate what might get you a nugget of 'love' by doing things for people, by not being a bother, by being polite, or a good student. This type of sub/slave wants to belong somewhere and be present in someone's mind and life. This is me. When I'm with a Dom I feel as though I've come home in a way that I've never been home before. It's also scary because I can't blend into the woodwork like I usually do, I have to play an active role and that of course is fulfilling as well. I can't always take an active role for myself, but I can do it for someone else if they expect me to.

I have found by talking to others that there seems to be some type of abuse factor in the background of many of the people drawn to BDSM but it could be as other posters have mentioned that it's just easier to talk about within the BDSM context, and maybe it isn't really a greater percent of the population as a whole. Another frequent poster to the boards has said that more extreme lifestyles draw more extreme people and I have always thought that was true. You're talking about people with some courage to follow their desires - what gives them the courage? Maybe there is some internal characteristic there that comes about as a result of abuse, or whatever lends that strength to getting what you need. I'm not sure.

Anyway, this turned out to be longer than I thought, a whole bunch of things ended up going through my head.

*edited to add a thought.



.....its not courage for some of us, rather an abject need to soothe the sore wound and transform it into a beautiful scar thats always there, we always feel it, but it finally feels good and ok.

(in reply to lizi)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: BDSM and abuse - 4/21/2010 8:54:04 PM   
SlaveSubtoserve


Posts: 282
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline 		No childhood abuse here but a very extended and traumatic/painful hospitalization as a young child......combined with excessive Catholicism and too many nuns flying around in school, a controlling home environment, strong women and sisters and girl cousins all around= probably the combo ......

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: BDSM and abuse - 4/22/2010 1:33:55 PM   
reynardfox


Posts: 417
Joined: 9/8/2009
Status: offline 		I was neglected and abused all the way up to getting old enough to leave home.
It had nothing to do with my sexuality, just made me a mean tenacious little bastard.

(in reply to fadedshadow)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: BDSM and abuse - 4/22/2010 2:27:56 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		On rereading this thread, I've noticed one glaring omission. The choice of who you pick as friends and partners.

We look for things that are familiar. And things are familiar because they remind us of our family. You may pick an emotionally absent male because your birth father was physically absent. That's common.

But when we pick friends, we want them to speak the same language we do also. So if you were shaped by early abuse, you will feel more comfortable with those who were also shaped by that sort of experience and background. And then when you poll your friends, of course they will have a higher than average background of abuse because if they didn't then you wouldn't have become friends with them to begin with. And that's bad science because you don't account for this factor.

Researchers have accidentally bred new traits into white lab rats, making the strains faster and more evasive because when they would reach into a cage to grab one, the slower ones would get picked. The ones who remained to make more lab rats were the smarter, faster ones. Bad science.


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Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 100
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