quote:

ORIGINAL: Nslavu

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Because i am in the process of highjacking my own thread, i would like to start another one to ask an additional question from both the M side and the s side. Why do you want an M/s relationship? What is it about that type of relationship dynamic that feeds you?

heartfelt

I think knowing your D/s M/s natural needs upfront, is one more way to select not only what, but who works best with you before you get into a relationship. The more things you know about yourself and use to remove elements of chance the better your opportunity is for success. D/s M/s, removes that nagging power issue that plagues 'normal' relationships.

It works better, when the s-type does the selecting as well, which is another thing that is backassward in 'normal' world relationships.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Lally,

Thank you for your great reply. Yes that is the process that i am doing. i don't plan on making my views exactly like someone elses, but i have found it helpful in figuring out where the fears are in using the forums like a journal, only with someone other than my sometimes convoluted brain being my sounding board. On here, i can be mostly logical and get others' insight not clouded by the fears that i have been dealing with.

Thanks to all of you, i am not scared of any label any more, if i end up in a relationship where i am a slave, so be it. It will be with someone who is trustworthy. If things change after they have started, somehow i will find the strength to end it if i need to.  Insights from others have helped me deal with issues that i think i would have floundered longer in on my own.

Thank you again so much for this reply,
heartfelt

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

.....Given who all of you are inside, your own internal identification as either a Master or as a slave (for Kyra and Alandra) your relationship flows out of doing what you need to do to be who you are inside, to feed who you are inside.

Would that be an accurate description?

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

.....Given who all of you are inside, your own internal identification as either a Master or as a slave (for Kyra and Alandra) your relationship flows out of doing what you need to do to be who you are inside, to feed who you are inside.

Would that be an accurate description?

short answer - Yes... but to qualify...

The internal identification is not about labeling it's about seeing the aspects of ourselves that to some happen to be labeled as Master or slave. I am not concerned about the label... but the motives that are driving my behaviors that served to fill some basic psychological needs.

I would add that the internal identification is not an end point but an evolution. Every day is an opportunity to learn about oneself. Awareness - Acceptance - Actualization is what I call a cycle of growth. But it's a circular cycle. The actualizations of today create new awarenesses that I need to accept for further actualizations. I would also state that to deny ones' awareness or deny acceptance prevents actualizations and even points us into a destructive cycle. A concept I became aware of awhile back is that the more we are able to manifest our inner selves into behaviors that are representative of who we are the more we are going to enhance our well-being and happiness. It is not automatic that we will actually choose to do this. In fact... we can choose to do the opposite for alot of different reasons... but regardless of the reasons.. to deny ourselves is going to be rather lessen our well-being and happiness.

Last note.. this is not blank check to behave in any manner because it is our inner selves! One can behave in many ways for the same result... the idea is to make choices that maximize the result.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub


..... has another thread buzzing in my head on who do we (meaning in my head s-types, but i guess ultimately all of us) serve. If our actions flow from a place of self-identification and feeding of ourselves, then i would have to say ultimately we all serve ourselves even if it looks like we are serving others or the relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
There is nothing wrong with it. i just rattled my perception for a bit t realize that even when i thought i was actually serving the other person, actually submitting, i was still serving myself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


maybe you already started this thread you speak of.... but i will add a few comments here for you to consider if you haven't

There is indeed the logical conclusion that with internalization that we indeed serve ourselves..... But you also need to consider alittle farther down the path in asking what/how exactly does one's self-indentification affect the choices the make in order to "manifest our inner selves into behaviors that are representative of who we are the more we are going to enhance our well-being and happiness"

When one considers the s-type; it is rather apparent to me that those that self-indentify as such will need to submit/transfer authority/serve seek to please/ be controlled etc etc etc to the d-type in order to be able to manifest their inner selves externally in order to enhance their well-being and happiness. Now even though the s-type may need to do this... they may not do it! For the need does not automatically equate to having the ability to do such in a effective and successful manner.

so in the end... the s-type serves both themself and the d-type when they are effective and successful in manifesting their inner self into behaviors representative of who they are. I would also add that this is like wise with d-types.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
There is nothing wrong with it. i just rattled my perception for a bit t realize that even when i thought i was actually serving the other person, actually submitting, i was still serving myself.

Gosh, it'd be kind of a pointless relationship from your standpoint if you weren't getting something out if it yourself, don't you think?

In a rather humorous fashion, I've offered several times on these boards that for any subs who need absolutely nothing but to serve, they should feel free to come serve me. I offer nothing in return.. no love, no care, nothing at all except for the opportunity to paint my house, reshingle my roof, and whatever else I need done. So far, I've gotten no takers on that although I remain hopeful *chuckles*

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
Thank you for your reply. i don't have a problems with getting somethng out of the relationship, it needs to be two sided, but as i said, what was disconcerting is that because so much of what has been required of me are thngs that i do naturally and it doesn't "feel" like submitting to me. So to have the only times that i actually feel like i am submitting to in fact be motivated by an internal needs makes me wonder if i am actually ever submitting to the other person or just using them to meet my need to submit and serve.

quote:



As long as the last paragraph is accurate,

quote:


For a number of reasons that bothered me, one because i do actually want to submit to another or serve another and if my motivation, even when i think i am being the most submissive is really about meeting my own needs, it makes me feel rather selfish. Which bothers me both as a submissive but also as a christian. Would like to think i actually do somethings from an unselfish motive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
Thank you for your reply. i don't have a problems with getting somethng out of the relationship, it needs to be two sided, but as i said, what was disconcerting is that because so much of what has been required of me are thngs that i do naturally and it doesn't "feel" like submitting to me. So to have the only times that i actually feel like i am submitting to in fact be motivated by an internal needs makes me wonder if i am actually ever submitting to the other person or just using them to meet my need to submit and serve.

Someone, maybe LuckyAlbatross, on this site said a really smart thing a while ago. In the end, if the dom leads and the sub follows, then it is submission. And if all that happens without a lot of trauma to the sub, then isn't that wonderful? The question of whether or not you were served or enjoyed the command is completely irrelevant to the basic structure of command/obedience.

Personally, I think you're over-analyzing *laughs*

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:



As long as the last paragraph is accurate,

it has been accurate in my world with my two girls... and many other deeply rewarding relationships that I have been fortunate to catch a glimpse of.

quote:


For a number of reasons that bothered me, one because i do actually want to submit to another or serve another and if my motivation, even when i think i am being the most submissive is really about meeting my own needs, it makes me feel rather selfish. Which bothers me both as a submissive but also as a christian. Would like to think i actually do somethings from an unselfish motive.

I think having a Win-Win situation for relationships is best of all.... How about just not be selfish.. and for me... selfish is to do things for oneself with out consideration of or even at the expense of everyone else. Be the person Dominant or Submissive... I think that this type of selfness is rather destructive to relationships.

thank you for some incredible threads of discussion you started recently... I have enjoyed them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Although, given my "need" to actually "feel" submission, i actually like some selfishness on the part of the D-type (grinning).

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
... don't disagree, it doesn't "feel" like submission to me in those times when it is really easy for me. It just feels like me being me. And while that is fine, and i am actually doing what the other person is wanting me to do, it doesn't feed the part of me that needs to feel like i am "actually" submitting. That part only gets fed when i go past where i would go on my own, whether that be in levels of pain play or something else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Although, given my "need" to actually "feel" submission, i actually like some selfishness on the part of the D-type (grinning).

and that is the beauty of it all. If the D-type is confident in being themselves.... It would be in their nature to take/use and enjoy all they can from their s-type.... knowing full well that such behavior is healthy for the relationship and the s-type and not unhealthy. Both are just different sides of the same coin... The key is finding that compatiable partner..... which is no easy feat it would seem.