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RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:32:26 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: countrychick

The United States of America is the only first world developed country without a universal health care system for its people and yet people don't want this? I'm just totally confused as to why people think it is not appropriate for a country to provide any and all citizens with the right to health care.

Sure I hear about increased taxes and the costs to the system, but aren't the lives of human beings worth more than a few percentage points of one's income? And if the rest of the developed world can do it, without bankrupting itself, why can't the USA? Just curious...


Too many Americans are greedy, heartless, self-centered idiots who think that poverty or bad luck are character flaws that deserve to be punished by god.


Very nice.

As one of the "greedy, heartless, self-centered idiots" that opposed this legislation for a whole slew of reasons, none of which relate to your obvious hyperbole. I wonder if you have even considered that there would be better ways of getting the coverage, portability, and choice that we as Americans deserve? Have you ever considered that some of us might want the programs we have on the books now (that we can't afford) to be fixed and made solvent before 150+ new offices and agencies are thrown on top of them? Maybe some of us still prefer to have as little government intrusion into our lives as possible. None of those things have anything to do with not having compassion for our fellow citizen or those that truly need a helping hand.

Simply put this bill treats the symptoms and does next to nothing for the underlying disease. Too, because of the way this bill was scrapped together, bent, and filled up, it is very likely not going to be able to stand up to Constitutional scrutiny. The mandates, special deals for particular states and classes of people will surely bring about a SCOTUS rebuke, as the reconcilliation bill (which contains the fixes) has no chance of being legally passed in the Senate.



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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:33:22 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

wonder what the final is going to be after the reconciliation?


My best guess is that reconciliation is DOA.
Neither party has any (political) incentive to change anything, as far as I can see.


Your guess was also that it would never pass the House.

I would stay away from Vegas if I were you.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:33:58 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Many of our doctors here in WV are foreign; many of them seem professionally questionable.

We need more doctors, period, imo.

I previously started a thread to discuss government initiatives to increase the number of med schools, etc...

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:34:51 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I'm reading a lot about a court challenge. While almost nothing would surprise me from the Roberts court finding significant parts of this bill unconstitutional is byond unlikely.

Most of it is insurance company regulations and it is well settled that congress can do all of that.

Requiring that everyone buy insurance might be troubling but the way it is set up you basically are talking about a tax break if you have insurance which is perfectly constitutional.

10th amendment grounds are a longshot since the various parts are legal under the commerce clause and assorted other parts of the Constitution.

Since there is a state opt out in the law it is unlikely that any state AG will be found to have actual standing to challenge the law in the first place.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:37:34 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

wonder what the final is going to be after the reconciliation?


My best guess is that reconciliation is DOA.
Neither party has any (political) incentive to change anything, as far as I can see.


Your guess was also that it would never pass the House.

I would stay away from Vegas if I were you.



Actually, I don't get to go there much these days. But I visited Mistress Taylor St Claire when I did....

I play (low stakes) poker online. Up a couple thousand last year, down a couple hundred this year. A diversion... like this.

My guess about the House was based in large part on my consideration of Bart Stupak as a man of honor and integrity. Silly me.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:37:41 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Many of our doctors here in WV are foreign; many of them seem professionally questionable.

We need more doctors, period, imo.

I previously started a thread to discuss government initiatives to increase the number of med schools, etc...
I'm just wondering...are they professionally questionable due to the fact that they are foreign?
Just asking,no need for you to jump to any conclusions based on my question...any more than I am jumping to any conclusions based on your statement...this is why I'm asking

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:40:18 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		The life, liberty, and property of no man is safe when SCOTUS is in session. Congress either.


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Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:43:00 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I'm just wondering...are they professionally questionable due to the fact that they are foreign?
Just asking,no need for you to jump to any conclusions based on my question...any more than I am jumping to any conclusions based on your statement...this is why I'm asking


Not to answer for truckin, but the requirements to be a licensed doctor or specialist vary widely by country. I feel that most citizens of modern, first-world nations would expect their doctor to have a medical education from a country with similar licensing and education requirements. Foreign birth is far less of an issue than foreign education.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:46:42 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Not because they are foreign, but because they were trained God-knows-where and many are practicing under some sort of provisional license pending full American testing. I think in some cases language issues lead not just to distrust but difficult diagnoses, improper/incomplete understanding of medical information from said Doctors... there are issues sometimes.

All things being equal, I would rather have an American-trained Doc who spoke hillbilly. In practice, our pediatrician is Indian with a thick accent. But she loves our daughter and had experience with premies....

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:50:38 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Many of our doctors here in WV are foreign; many of them seem professionally questionable.

We need more doctors, period, imo.

I previously started a thread to discuss government initiatives to increase the number of med schools, etc...
I'm just wondering...are they professionally questionable due to the fact that they are foreign?
Just asking,no need for you to jump to any conclusions based on my question...any more than I am jumping to any conclusions based on your statement...this is why I'm asking


I have read that 100,000 people die each year from hospital malpractice. If true, there is a lot of medical professionalism to be questioned.

But Government incentives for new med schools? Sounds like a plot to subvert the Tenth Amendment.

Perhaps a free market in new med schools would develop if the AMA would lose its monopoly.

_____________________________

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:50:59 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Wait a minute..are you saying one can practice medicine in this country with a "sort of provisional license".I find that hard to beleive.I have no knowledge of W.V. but I would doubt any state in this union is allowing anyone to practice medicine without first ascertaining that they are qualified.....fully ascertaining.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 8:54:53 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

I can't believe someone brought race into this issue. This is insane. I suppose they are still using the same argument they used during the election, that if you don't support this man you have to be a racist.



Yeah, I can't believe it either.

Tea party protesters scream 'nigger' at black congressman | McClatchy

Mar 20, 2010 ... Tea party demonstrators outside the US Capitol screamed "nigger" at US Rep. ... Voices were loud at the final day of health care protests ...



(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 9:02:54 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I'm just wondering...are they professionally questionable due to the fact that they are foreign?
Just asking,no need for you to jump to any conclusions based on my question...any more than I am jumping to any conclusions based on your statement...this is why I'm asking


Not to answer for truckin, but the requirements to be a licensed doctor or specialist vary widely by country. I feel that most citizens of modern, first-world nations would expect their doctor to have a medical education from a country with similar licensing and education requirements. Foreign birth is far less of an issue than foreign education.



Isn't there some country in the Carribean that has medical schools that accept students that can't get into medical colleges in the U.S. and Europe?

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 9:08:10 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Isn't there some country in the Carribean that has medical schools that accept students that can't get into medical colleges in the U.S. and Europe?


It's those bloody communists in Cuba. They provide full scholarships and high quality training for low-income American medical students who wouldn't be able to afford the loans back home. Fucking bastards.

http://www.medicc.org/ns/index.php?p=4&s=28

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Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 9:10:00 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Do they ,in addition, run anchor baby scams?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 9:13:04 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Actually, the resistance was fairly bipartisan.


Which is my point.

You had Democrats who voted against the bill but not one single Republican voted for it?

How does that happen?

Is it just that every single Republican believed in their heart this was a bad bill or do you think there were some other factors at work?



(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 9:22:10 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
~ Fast Observation ~


This just in....

During my long 7 mile commute this morning - no dancing in the streets to report....

...stay tuned for further exciting news.

...'entitled' children can now continue to be children relying on their parents insurance until 26. The USA has finally caught Europe in one regard; combined with the 'free' tuition loan pork, essential in buying a vote or two, the USA has plowed the fields for our own crop of non-productive "professional students".

...stay tuned four years for any coverage...

...stay tuned about 30 days for the rate increased filed 9:00AM this morning in California to take effect.

Hope you bought the health care stocks on Friday, as suggested! Health stocks lifted the market Monday following House approval of an overhaul bill that would extend insurance to millions. 30,000,000 new customers with premium payments guaranteed by tax money! - I join in the celebration with the rationalizing liberals (excuse me "progressives") - "YEAH for 'Corporate Welfare'!"

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 3/22/2010 9:24:04 AM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 9:26:06 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

But Government incentives for new med schools? Sounds like a plot to subvert the Tenth Amendment.

Perhaps a free market in new med schools would develop if the AMA would lose its monopoly.


One of my suggestions was to open med schools as adjuncts to the service academies. No conflict with the TA
I'm pretty sure I also addressed the AMA. Negatively.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 9:29:51 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Now compare that with a quote from Newt Gingrich...a man whose politics I personally detest,but he writes good fiction...lol.
Here's what he had to say concerning what would happen if Democrats pass this bill...."They will have destroyed their party much as Lyndon Johnson shattered the Democratic Party for 40 years" by passing civil rights legislation.
Now whether or not you agree that the Democrats did in fact damage their brand by passing that historic piece of legislation....I'm left to wonder,who in the year 2010 can look at the Civil Rights act as anything but a shining example of historic legislation?....who but Newt and some other Republicans can actually look back at that and see the political cost rather than the great stride forward that legislation represented for this country?
It baffles me that on one side a political equation is the supposed driving force and on the other ,as Krugman writes ,an appeal to the better angels of our nature is the message.
Whose side would you think history will be on?


Did you see this quote from Boehner?


Boehner: It's "Armageddon," Health Care Bill Will "Ruin our Country"‎

The next 24 hours are "armageddon" because the health care bill proposed by Democrats will "ruin our country," House Minority Leader John Boehner said Saturday, a day before a crucial vote on the bill in the House.

Is it any wonder we have people so worked up when we have a leading member of the House spouting this type of hyperbole?


(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Health care passes - 3/22/2010 9:33:11 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

do you think there were some other factors at work?


There were, of course, many factors at work on both sides of the aisle.

Most Ds and Rs voted the way they did because the bill falls on the "big government" side of the divide that supposedly separates them. Others voted for political reasons, for financial reasons, for a cmbination, etc etc.

Burt I give most of them some belief in the principles they generally espouse.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 200
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