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Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:14:26 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I am curious about the mandated insurance part of the new law. In this state any driving a vehicle is required to have insurance. Since we all need medical services throughout our lives is mandated health insurance any different in theory?

Of course there uninsured drivers on the road and they do cause accidents, which means drivers who do carry insurance often pay for an "uninsured driver" clause.

I do not have enough information about mandatory insurance on homes for say, floods or earthquakes.

Are there other comparisons that can be made?



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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:19:01 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		People play both sides of this fence.

First argument will be that an automobile is a choice, so technically, it's only mandated if you choose to own one.

The trouble is that everyone has health, and will conceivably need health insurance. People will argue it should be choice, but just as with uninsured drivers, that choice impacts others, from unpaid emergency care to disease control.

(in reply to Vendaval)
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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:19:13 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		lets not get me started.  lol

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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:21:02 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		I guess the place to start with making this comparison is with the vehicles. Does the state you live in require everybody to have a drivers licence and a car, simply because they are residents? Obviously not, therefore not everybody is required to have insurance. Driving is a privledge, and as part of that privledge there are certain responsibilities that come with it. Now if your state required all residents to have insurance for auto, simply because they lived there even if they didn't own a car or drive...

The same can be said for home owners insurance.

See where this discussion fails the apples to apples comparison?

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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:23:08 PM   
Slavehandsome


Posts: 382
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		When do we get to institute mandatory Life Insurance and Renter's Insurance?

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:23:44 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

People play both sides of this fence.

First argument will be that an automobile is a choice, so technically, it's only mandated if you choose to own one.

The trouble is that everyone has health, and will conceivably need health insurance. People will argue it should be choice, but just as with uninsured drivers, that choice impacts others, from unpaid emergency care to disease control.


Everybody travels by road, whether at the wheel or via public transportation... yet we don't mandate all residents have some sort of insurance for being alive.

Again, where does the limits of what Congress can mandate end, if this is found to be constitutional?

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:32:49 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

People play both sides of this fence.

First argument will be that an automobile is a choice, so technically, it's only mandated if you choose to own one.

The trouble is that everyone has health, and will conceivably need health insurance. People will argue it should be choice, but just as with uninsured drivers, that choice impacts others, from unpaid emergency care to disease control.


The foundation of insurance for the car is that you can cause damage in the public and as a driver you licensed as are part of the corporate commercial enterprise therefore you need insurance.

People who travel and little does anyone on here seem to realize there are thousands out here can speed and whatever as long as they do not screw up and hurt someone.  In other words traveling is a private right and driving is a commercial privilege.

You can look in the stats in any state and if you are sharp you will find that somewhere buried in there the distinction will be made and that goes for everything else that comes under unalienable rights as well.

The only reason its mandated is becaue you are 1) a "driver" not a traveler and 2) you can damage someone and our administrative courts as a result of the APA do not have jurisdiction to adjudicate "freemen" or Sovereigns, only the corporate slaves in their "administrative", NOT JUDICIAL hearings.

Start from the beginning of their creation and you will see that this is 150% accurate.






_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:37:09 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

People play both sides of this fence.

First argument will be that an automobile is a choice, so technically, it's only mandated if you choose to own one.

The trouble is that everyone has health, and will conceivably need health insurance. People will argue it should be choice, but just as with uninsured drivers, that choice impacts others, from unpaid emergency care to disease control.


Everybody travels by road, whether at the wheel or via public transportation... yet we don't mandate all residents have some sort of insurance for being alive.


Wow---if you want to get that picky, actually, we DO charge them...they pay for those roads, and they even pay gasoline taxes, as those costs are reflected in the price of the transportation. They also pay for police, fire, and military protection.

Everybody. Just for being alive.

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:44:34 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

People play both sides of this fence.

First argument will be that an automobile is a choice, so technically, it's only mandated if you choose to own one.

The trouble is that everyone has health, and will conceivably need health insurance. People will argue it should be choice, but just as with uninsured drivers, that choice impacts others, from unpaid emergency care to disease control.


Everybody travels by road, whether at the wheel or via public transportation... yet we don't mandate all residents have some sort of insurance for being alive.

Again, where does the limits of what Congress can mandate end, if this is found to be constitutional?


yeh another popular "state" word.

resident.  they dont bother with domicile or like me HIDEL, because its not corporate!

what is resident?

Res+ident

thing identified and for whatever reason once this king george and east india corporation started mapping shit out they made their little trust compacts and they have an interest in anyone using their trademarked labels.

What a fucking deal eh?

Any wonder we whine about government and can never find the bottom of things?

Elect one flunky after another and this country goes a bit more down the shit hole every round?

any wonder? 

Look up the etymology on resident sometime.... in newspaper size  print it is a list of definitions that is 3/8 thick that when its all said and done if you exist you are resident!

Now go into a tax case and what will they hit you with as justification for taxation?  ah huh the fact you exist, resident. 

I keep telling people that the people in feudal england has more freedom than we do now and that we are living in a feudal system and the only thing that is different is definitions and of course a bunch of slaves who think they are free because they can choose what beer they want to drink and what channel they want to watch while they drink it.

Resistance is futile!
Locutis  


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:47:22 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		If I were given the choice, I would buy auto insurance.

Same with homeowners insurance.

Same with health insurance.

Some things just make sense.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:48:49 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		we wont get me started today.  we wont.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:49:08 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

People play both sides of this fence.

First argument will be that an automobile is a choice, so technically, it's only mandated if you choose to own one.

The trouble is that everyone has health, and will conceivably need health insurance. People will argue it should be choice, but just as with uninsured drivers, that choice impacts others, from unpaid emergency care to disease control.


Everybody travels by road, whether at the wheel or via public transportation... yet we don't mandate all residents have some sort of insurance for being alive.


Wow---if you want to get that picky, actually, we DO charge them...they pay for those roads, and they even pay gasoline taxes, as those costs are reflected in the price of the transportation. They also pay for police, fire, and military protection.

Everybody. Just for being alive.

Hmmm, using that standard, wouldn't that also include paying for those extra health care expenses for the uninsured and those with Medicare and Medicaid?

Or at least that is what I thought was one of the arguments in support of this legislation....

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:54:43 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yup.

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 1:55:52 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

People play both sides of this fence.

First argument will be that an automobile is a choice, so technically, it's only mandated if you choose to own one.

The trouble is that everyone has health, and will conceivably need health insurance. People will argue it should be choice, but just as with uninsured drivers, that choice impacts others, from unpaid emergency care to disease control.


Everybody travels by road, whether at the wheel or via public transportation... yet we don't mandate all residents have some sort of insurance for being alive.

Again, where does the limits of what Congress can mandate end, if this is found to be constitutional?


yeh another popular "state" word.

resident.  they dont bother with domicile or like me HIDEL, because its not corporate!

what is resident?

Res+ident

thing identified and for whatever reason once this king george and east india corporation started mapping shit out they made their little trust compacts and they have an interest in anyone using their trademarked labels.

What a fucking deal eh?

Any wonder we whine about government and can never find the bottom of things?

Elect one flunky after another and this country goes a bit more down the shit hole every round?

any wonder? 

Look up the etymology on resident sometime.... in newspaper size  print it is a list of definitions that is 3/8 thick that when its all said and done if you exist you are resident!

Now go into a tax case and what will they hit you with as justification for taxation?  ah huh the fact you exist, resident. 

I keep telling people that the people in feudal england has more freedom than we do now and that we are living in a feudal system and the only thing that is different is definitions and of course a bunch of slaves who think they are free because they can choose what beer they want to drink and what channel they want to watch while they drink it.

Resistance is futile!
Locutis 


quote:


Again, where does the limits of what Congress can mandate end, if this is found to be constitutional?



ok since you all apparently do not know here is how it works.  First you have the 14th amendment that says shut up and put up because you are a citizen of the united states which is a corporation.

Yes a corporation is a body politic and a body politic is a state and you got it you can be a citizen of a member of a state.

So how did the feds reach across state lines to kick your asses?  Well you signed up with social security that is at the federal level did you not?  Mom signed up as an "informant" to the government of their new chattel on the birth certificate.

All the "ELEMENTS" to reach across the state lines and have complete jurisdiction over you so they can charge you "federal" income tax!

People talk about state sovereignty which is a joke.

You can waive your rights, cop says the miranda every time.

How do you waive your rights?

BY CONTRACT!

Just like I just pointed out!  Really simple stuff they forgot to teach anyone in school even college,






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/27/2010 2:14:05 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 2:06:32 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If I were given the choice, I would buy auto insurance.

Same with homeowners insurance.

Same with health insurance.

Some things just make sense.



I wont dispute having insurance if the benefit justifies the cost.  The state should be paying for that anyway :)

You give them your name on the census do you not?    They use it for credit against your property do they not?  Why are you not getting a kickback on those bonds eh?

You see they through media hype keep the leftees ant the rightees at each others throats and no one ever looks beyond their noses to see whats really happening out there and how we are getting fucked at every corner so these assholes can add to their personal retirement funds.

Government was never intended to be a business whith people as the commodity. but it is and until people wake up you aint seen nothing yet.

Just get out your wallet and pay motha pay!

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/27/2010 2:07:41 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 3:35:44 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		With a little luck, we'll only have to worry about it for a year or two before they switch to single-payer - as they should have just done in  the first place.

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In the forest of the night
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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 3:38:36 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Amen.

I'm hoping once we're over the wall of "Oh my God! Socialized Health Care!" saner heads will start turning toward more practical (and less expensive) paths.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 3:39:15 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Do you think it is likely, considering the current political climate or even with the current or upcoming congressional makeup?

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 3:44:22 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		No.

It would, however, make more sense.

Americans have a history of voting against their own claimed interests.

Remember, we ran up this debt, in the 60s, in the 80s and again in the 2000s, while ardently waving our flags.

Same with giving up rights to the Patriot Act and the Department of Homeland Theater.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/27/2010 3:47:52 PM >

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/27/2010 3:47:02 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Hard to say  what's likely and unlikely these days. But it's certainly possible, given that a large - even very large - majority of the public has favored it consistently over the last year. I've got a strong hunch that part of the plan is to let the current private insurance system continue to come apart at the seams for the next few years, and when it's inescapably clear that the public option is the only solution, step in and implement it. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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Profile   Post #: 20
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