quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Right on, Mike.

No comparison.

The operative phrase in my post was, "and do nothing." You're doing something.

Big difference.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The Saudis aren't moderates. Wahabism is no way shape or form moderate.

A real examination of the region shows the moderates, and our best hope for long temr friends, with the Sunni people of Jordan (actually the Hashemite monarch of Jordan has a reasonably good claim to the islamic holy cities and the parts of SA where most of the oil is. Supporting them over the House of Saud might lead to a short war and a lot of whining but might ultimately lead to a better situation), along with the Sunni and Christian populations of Lebanon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Can't be done. Wahabism is antithetical to western values. Like I said better to dump the house of Saud for the Hashemites.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Actually the people who live in SA are mostly moderate Sunni and very western looking. Get rid of the House of Saud and get a representative government in place and it could easily become a very western part of the ME.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The thing is, the Saudis are the moderates in the area. They truly are our friends, and the hope is that they will climb into the current century as the world continues to shrink because they're mingling with us through the wonders of modern travel and communication and help to lead the rest of the Middle East towards a brighter future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Moderates, you have to be kidding us. Take a look at where the 9/11 bombers came from. Take a look at where Al Qaida gets much of its funding from. Take a look at Wahhibism. Take a look at the amputations for petty crime. Moderate, they are surely not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

How amazingly tolerant of you. I like this "new Sanity." I presume you feel the same way about these Saudi head-chopper-offers, too?

quote:

BERLIN, June 18 -- Islamic radicals in Saudi Arabia on Friday beheaded an American contractor whom they kidnapped six days earlier, and in a defiant statement on the Internet pledged more attacks on Americans. Hours later, Saudi security forces reported they had shot dead the leader of the group that asserted responsibility for the abduction.

Johnson was the third American in less than two weeks to meet a violent death in Riyadh. His kidnapping, the first of a Westerner in Saudi Arabia, and the manner of his killing marked a new kind of assault on the American presence in the oil-producing kingdom. "The infidel got his fair treatment," the group said in a statement.

[link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52166-2004Jun18.html]Link

These guys are OK too, then, right? Same thing with these guys? Just "human beings who could possibly use a little enlightenment?"

Who are we to judge, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Who is kidding who? They're at war with al-Qaeda! The actual extremists hate them! And their more fundamentalist edges can be softened so long as we stay engaged with them.

Listen to yourselves, and try to think rationally. Because you feel you're morally superior you think they're "ignorant, barbaric savages" who had ought to be unmercifully killed by mobs. Their crime? They think they're morally superior, and want to painlessly execute someone who they feel represents low point for mankind.

Whats wrong with that picture?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Moderates, you have to be kidding us. Take a look at where the 9/11 bombers came from. Take a look at where Al Qaida gets much of its funding from. Take a look at Wahhibism. Take a look at the amputations for petty crime. Moderate, they are surely not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Since you quoted me, I have never claimed to be morally superior to Muslims or any other Religion. I must say it is a bit rich coming from you, given your posting history. lets make this quite clear, some of those near the top of the House of Saud have backed AQ, there is no doubt on that. Sure OBL wanted to see the whole dynasty brought down. Your claim that SA is moderate, given the human rights record, is laughable. I just wonder if you would be posting the same if it was a US citizen about to be executed. Somehow I doubt it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Its good to see you distancing yourself from the likes of panda and mike then.

Bully for you.

and their human rights record is on account of their religion, all of the people feel the same way about it as their government does. Our best hope is to stay engaged with them and keep the communication of ideas flowing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I wasnt distancing myself from anyone, just so the record is clear, I was just answering your post.

Religion or not, you cant call the Saudis moderate. Your stance here is completely polar with your views of Muslims states you dont see as "friends".

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The latest by the way is that the execution has been postponed. Friday, after prayers, is when most executions take place so hopefully there is at least a one week stay and more hopefully this is a sign that the Saudis are listening to the concerns expressed worldwide over this matter and will look to another resolution.

E

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Something many Westerners fail to understand is that to most Muslims, Satan is very real. And the way they see it this fortune teller is dealing directly with the devil and peddling a fate worse than death to all his victims, which would be eternal damnation. In their eyes the man is worse than a serial killer, they see this as protecting their children. To them it isn't some backward idea, its the only right thing to do.

And as someone pointed out earlier they are willing to discuss it, and perhaps take a more moderate stance, which is far more than we could possibly hope for if the true radicals were in power there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I don't feel like I'm god-like enough to judge them "ignorant, barbaric savages" like you and your ilk. I see them as human beings who could possibly use some enlightenment, just like me. 

How amazingly tolerant of you. I like this "new Sanity." I presume you feel the same way about these Saudi head-chopper-offers, too?

quote:

BERLIN, June 18 -- Islamic radicals in Saudi Arabia on Friday beheaded an American contractor whom they kidnapped six days earlier, and in a defiant statement on the Internet pledged more attacks on Americans. Hours later, Saudi security forces reported they had shot dead the leader of the group that asserted responsibility for the abduction.

Johnson was the third American in less than two weeks to meet a violent death in Riyadh. His kidnapping, the first of a Westerner in Saudi Arabia, and the manner of his killing marked a new kind of assault on the American presence in the oil-producing kingdom. "The infidel got his fair treatment," the group said in a statement.

Link


These guys are OK too, then, right? Same thing with these guys? Just "human beings who could possibly use a little enlightenment?"

Who are we to judge, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Its because they are engaged with the rest of the world - which is leaps ahead of the true extremists in the region.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The latest by the way is that the execution has been postponed. Friday, after prayers, is when most executions take place so hopefully there is at least a one week stay and more hopefully this is a sign that the Saudis are listening to the concerns expressed worldwide over this matter and will look to another resolution.

E

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Hey, Sanity! Since you pretended not to notice this when I posted it the first time, let's try again. Will you answer this time, or weasel away from it again?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

How amazingly tolerant of you. I like this "new Sanity." I presume you feel the same way about these Saudi head-chopper-offers, too?

quote:

BERLIN, June 18 -- Islamic radicals in Saudi Arabia on Friday beheaded an American contractor whom they kidnapped six days earlier, and in a defiant statement on the Internet pledged more attacks on Americans. Hours later, Saudi security forces reported they had shot dead the leader of the group that asserted responsibility for the abduction.

Johnson was the third American in less than two weeks to meet a violent death in Riyadh. His kidnapping, the first of a Westerner in Saudi Arabia, and the manner of his killing marked a new kind of assault on the American presence in the oil-producing kingdom. "The infidel got his fair treatment," the group said in a statement.

Link


These guys are OK too, then, right? Same thing with these guys? Just "human beings who could possibly use a little enlightenment?"

Who are we to judge, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Obama has to kiss arse to make sure they keep selling your country oil. What's your excuse for brown nosing them?