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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/3/2006 3:38:45 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Everytime I see "The Secretary" movie mentioned in one of these threads I think I actually grimace.

Master and I have watched it twice, the first time we switched it off in disgust, the second time we wanted to give it a chance, see it through etc...but my opinion didnt change.

I really disliked the fact that both Dominant and submissive were portrayed like they had mental illness..just another thing to show everyday people how anyone involved in BDSM has to be a weirdo and have something wrong with their mental make-up.


Grrr to The Secretary
My Rating: Negative -98958675349

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/3/2006 3:40:06 PM   
throbbin


Posts: 10
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline 		'Story of O' is the true classic. 
 
Producer / Director Andrew Blake has done some good artzy flicks.
 
Google erotic movies and get LOTS of class C movies by major 'class C' movie production companies.  Some is good stuff - pick your own favorite * porn star *.  
I did.

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/3/2006 3:48:26 PM   
kiska


Posts: 160
Joined: 11/17/2005
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I liked the movie the Secretary because it not only touched on BDSM but it also dealt with the relaitonship; how a submissive grows and blossoms with the right guidance ...

Lee went from being introverted, depressed, unable to cope with life and unsure of where she was going to being self-assured, confident ... She no longer *needed* to hurt herself (something I can relate to on a very personal level) and she also found the inner strength to pursue what she wanted.

Not only that though ... The dominant wasnt portrayed as being some perfect, god-like, authorative figure who just swoops in and "fixes" all her problems. He has problems of his own and NEEDS her to HELP him ... If Lee hadnt been as strong as she was, he would have continued denying himself as well.

Yeah, the movie had its over the top moments but I still enjoy watching it ...

I also enjoyed 9 1/2 Weeks, Another 9 1/2 Weeks, The Story of O series ... (there was like 10 of them I think?) ...

Books ... Well, I've read the Gor books a few times each. No its not the most exciting reading out there but there are some good ideas to be gleaned from the rest. I enjoyed the Beauty series on a purely sexual level. Cant think of any other books right at the moment ...

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/3/2006 4:09:13 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		I just wanted to add, I know the Master/slave relationship can be healing for some people with problems, I can appreciate that. Thats all very good.

Its just that movie was out there for the general public to see, and all the general public would see are two crazy people who cant cope with life, are hardly functional, interacting within a BDSM context.

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/3/2006 4:48:56 PM   
masochistecstacy


Posts: 41
Joined: 2/20/2005
Status: offline 		Reading everyone's comments has really made me think about it. Like I said, I probably would have enjoyed it more if I'd been alone, instead of having to pretend in front of my roommate that I was shocked and such. I'm not so sure about the plot and developement of the movie itself, it seemed a little choppy and random to me. I've seen worse, but I've also seen better. I did like that it *did* have the bdsm aspect though.

Thank you everyone for all the movie recomendations. *is making a list to look them all up adn watch at some point*

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/3/2006 5:21:44 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Tie Me Up, Tie Me Down, while this film doesn't exactly fit into a BDSM category it has many of the ingredients.


This is one of my favourite movies. I'm a Pedro Almodovar fan. Most of his movies portray unusual sexual dynamics.

I also love The Secretary.

I thought 91/2 Weeks sucked. There were some erotic moments, but MR was not a dom, he was a jerk, IMHO. The book goes further, and it makes the heroine's interest in submission look like mental problems to the reader. Like she had no self-esteem, and it was an abusive relationship. (Which it pretty much was...)
 
My problem with films portraying BDSM in them is that they generally portray it in a nonconsensual, abusive way.

Perhaps that will change soon. Secretary was closest so far in allowing the characters to eventually become happy in a healthy D/s dynamic. And they actually used the word submissive in the movie. Shocking!! LOL

Cin

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/3/2006 5:29:14 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masochistecstacy

Reading everyone's comments has really made me think about it. Like I said, I probably would have enjoyed it more if I'd been alone, instead of having to pretend in front of my roommate that I was shocked and such.


I've used moments like this to feel out people, to open discussions about alternative lifestyles, and to educate people.

I was able to open a dialoque with my mom on BDSM, when we were watching the news one night and they were talking about that actress Jeri (her name escapes me) and her politician husband. She had made allegations that he wanted to have sex with her in a "whips-and-chains" bar.

My mom was guite open about it. I felt that even though it wasn't the time to come out to her, when I do, she can handle it.

Sorry, went off-topic a bit there...LOL

Cin

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/3/2006 5:35:52 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
I really disliked the fact that both Dominant and submissive were portrayed like they had mental illness..just another thing to show everyday people how anyone involved in BDSM has to be a weirdo and have something wrong with their mental make-up.


I agree that this was an uncomfortable aspect for many of us happy kinksters, who have no history of mental illness...But, I think it's important to remember that this is story-telling, and in story-telling the hero/heroine have to have problems which they overcome. This is the basis of story-telling, and gives the reader a good feeling at the end.

Even if a story has a sad ending the readers will feel satisfied, as long as the protagonist (main character) of the story has been able to overcome a problem, and move forward in their growth.

Just something to consider.

Cin

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/3/2006 5:42:55 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		I have a confession to make.  I have never seen the Secretary.  I hope no one will take one of my paddles away.

But, I did become disgruntled the other evening watching House.  The opening scene was a light rape scene and the rapist starts having trouble breathing and it is revealed it is her husband and they were just playing.  Cool...good start.  So they start out trying to portray them as all happy and healthy and in love.  Then at the end it turns out the chick was sprinking gold on his cereal each morning in an attempt to slowly murder him.  Sigh.

I decided to let it go because it is House and they make many characters shitty and evil, not just the kinky people.

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/3/2006 5:53:11 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		From a cinematic viewpoint, the movie had a lot of problems. Choppy editing, some over the top acting and a pandering story line all contributed to an over-all poor production. That said, there are several aspects which I believe showed BDSM in a healthy, albeit simplistic manner. The fact that the girl reads and studies that which intrigues her, she acknowledges herself, recognizes potential, finds a 'safe' place to express herself.. ::the slap was priceless in my opinion:: and helps someone else get rid of their baggage so he could first love himself, embrace his dominance and then embrace her all contribute to the positive aspects of the movie. I also enjoyed his understanding of 'her'.. the reasons why she was a cutter and the fact that she needed him as much as he needed her. In a scale of 1 - 10, I give it a 5.5.. as a mainstream film - lower points due to the cinematic failures, and a solid 7 as one of the better BDSM films available. I actually enjoyed the storyline and thought the progression from mental ward to happy wife was solid and realistic. I didn't even mind that she was on the SAM side. :)

::drops 2 cents into the bucket::

Celeste

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/5/2006 1:13:40 AM   
mysticsoul


Posts: 55
Joined: 12/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: shivvy

i liked the story of 'O'. i thought that woz a grand film



The book is 100times better.


If the book is 100 times better, then the film must have REALLY been horrendous, because the book was the absolute WORST I've ever read in ANY genre.  O was an insipid twit, Rene was a simpering fool, and Stephen was a mere caricature of what a dominant is supposed to be.  The fact that they had to trick women into becoming slaves made them even more pathetic.
 
Secretary, on the other hand, was an excellent film.  So was 9 1/2 weeks, which made me a huge Mickey Rourke fan.



I have to agree with Evanesce - i hated the book too for exactly the same reasons you put here.

Then a Dom friend suggested the Beauty trilogy by Anne Rice. Started off incredible but now i'm stuck in the middle of book number 2. Just can't seem to keep interest in it when they talk about this one guys journey. Too long and boring for me but i am trying to get through it. lol

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/5/2006 1:53:12 AM   
NickInSLC


Posts: 121
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Maîtresse, Mano Destra, Romance, The Piano Teacher, The Night Porter, Bais Moi (not exactly BDSM but near enough) and a comedy Preaching To The Perverted (which i haven't seen).


Preaching To The Perverted is a phenominal movie!  On a 1 to 10 scale, I place Secretary at 5 or 6, but PTTP is easily an 8 or 9.  The 'perverts' are healthy (albeit kinky), the story line is believable, and there's a great message about integrity.  I recommend it to anybody who'll pay attention to me.

Also, has anybody here seen 'Bound'?  I've read favorable reviews of it, but I'd like to hear from any kinky people who've seen it.

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/5/2006 5:50:47 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NickInSLC
Preaching To The Perverted is a phenominal movie!  On a 1 to 10 scale, I place Secretary at 5 or 6, but PTTP is easily an 8 or 9.  The 'perverts' are healthy (albeit kinky), the story line is believable, and there's a great message about integrity.  I recommend it to anybody who'll pay attention to me.

Interesting.  I thought PTTP was very over the top with a plot as solid as swiss cheese.
quote:


Also, has anybody here seen 'Bound'?  I've read favorable reviews of it, but I'd like to hear from any kinky people who've seen it.

I thought it was incredibly boring and soft core porn.

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/5/2006 7:15:55 AM   
artglfr


Posts: 235
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline 		I must respectfully disagree, I believe she started out being shown as a dowdy ,self unaware , unsafe sicko simply Because she KNEW deep down there was more to life than she was getting.  As she grew into her life at work she began to realize her sickness wasn't real and threw her "kit" away, began dressing and acting  sensual and enjoying life.

He on the other hand had a much tougher time; going from Punisher, to finding He enjoyed the Domination and being scared and abhorred with this side of Himself to finally acceptance.

The two of them grew into a very good Lifestyle,  she found out what she wanted and went out and got it, He was surprised and finally acceted the relationship.

she continued to Top from the bottom till the end though...remember the bug?

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/5/2006 7:37:25 AM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NickInSLC
Also, has anybody here seen 'Bound'?  I've read favorable reviews of it, but I'd like to hear from any kinky people who've seen it.



Bound is a great movie. High on the erotic factor, mild on the BDSM but worth seeing if you like quirky films that keep you at the edge of your chair.

It has its violent moments. (One character is trying to leave her gangster partner).

The two female leads portray stereotypical opposites, (butch and femme), but both actresses bring so much to their parts that they are truly memorable. LOVE the ending.

I'd recommend it.

Cin

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My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/5/2006 8:05:28 AM   
Mikesbeth


Posts: 15
Joined: 3/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

I really disliked the fact that both Dominant and submissive were portrayed like they had mental illness..just another thing to show everyday people how anyone involved in BDSM has to be a weirdo and have something wrong with their mental make-up.



I never got that at all.  Honestly, I love the movie.  I never had the feeling that anybody was battling mental illness of any kind.  They were feeling their way through a world that likes lables and thought they were ill.  I came away with the feeling that they simply were who they defined themselves as being.  Not sick.  

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/5/2006 8:22:43 AM   
LorgromAndMiskel


Posts: 46
Joined: 6/9/2004
Status: offline 		Preaching To The Perverted is a great film. We rented it from the local video store (they had it in the new release section for everyone to see, hehe). Then we had them order one for us. Excelent movie, very over the top.

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/5/2006 8:32:44 AM   
Mikesbeth


Posts: 15
Joined: 3/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: artglfr

He on the other hand had a much tougher time; going from Punisher, to finding He enjoyed the Domination and being scared and abhorred with this side of Himself to finally acceptance.

The two of them grew into a very good Lifestyle,  she found out what she wanted and went out and got it, He was surprised and finally acceted the relationship.

she continued to Top from the bottom till the end though...remember the bug?


I like this quote.  He did have a harder time coming to terms with what who was and how it would manifest itself in hes daily life.  I'm not sure about her topping from the bottom, though.  In other threads, it seems as though the popular opinion is that topping from the bottom is much more than what she does throughout the movie...  Maybe just a bit of a brat.  I liked the bug and the worm. :)

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/5/2006 9:49:37 AM   
Driver1961


Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		He enters, dips His lid,

The Story of O was written out of pure fantasy,  the author had no 'inside' knowledge of BDSM (fact) and it shows with it's inconsistancies of dynamic. It borders on Sadism in the societal ARGHH view. 

Yes Secretary does show the 'awakening' from nuturing and the blossoming of self in a submissive thro her trust and WANT to be accepted for her submittance.  9 1/2 weeks hit the surface in between for me.  Yes it's great when my sub 'puts MY hat on!"

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RE: BDSM movies- 2002 "Secretary" - 4/5/2006 3:58:12 PM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Its just that movie was out there for the general public to see, and all the general public would see are two crazy people who cant cope with life, are hardly functional, interacting within a BDSM context.


I didn't see either of them that way.  Mr. Gray, I felt, struggled with guilt over his (what he perceived as) unnatural desires.  That's why he fired Lee.  He was afraid of his own needs and wants.  I've known a few dominants who were in the same boat.  Lee, on the other hand, felt powerless over her surroundings - especially in her parents' home.  Her experiences with Mr. Gray allowed her to see that she did have a voice, and she was a strong woman.  It was her strength that allowed him to finally surrender to and embrace his needs and desires.
 
That, and I thought the desk scene was nothing short of hot.

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