RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 10:32:52 AM)

quote:

1. Those who are active bigots should stop.
2. Those who are pc bigots should stop.
3. Those who don't know what they are talking about should get a clue.
4. Treat everyone like they were really your kin.[/b


Bigotry is in the heart, T. You cannot legislate it away unfortunately.

Yes, the wealthy have advantages. I saw it on the evening news. Come on, T!!! Tell me something that is not so fucking obvious. For example.....

Why do Asian children succeed? They are children of color? Why did Jewish children succeed when they were the victims of institutional discrimination? Family motivation. Community motivation. More community organizers to reach out to parents and kids. It is happeneing in Harlem and in the South Bronx.




Silence8 -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 10:33:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

You have to first show that people alive today were injured by what transpired in the past. As to those who were slaves, there is no monetary value that can be placed on thier lives lost imo.


Just like there is no monetary value that can be placed on these mortgage derivatives, imo.

I guess we should just evict all the sub-white, I mean sub-prime, I mean black homeowners and look toward the future! [:D]




vincentML -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 11:29:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

You have to first show that people alive today were injured by what transpired in the past. As to those who were slaves, there is no monetary value that can be placed on thier lives lost imo.


Just like there is no monetary value that can be placed on these mortgage derivatives, imo.

I guess we should just evict all the sub-white, I mean sub-prime, I mean black homeowners and look toward the future! [:D]


Those are your scurrilous ideas.... not mine. My thought was that lives lost were more precious and anguish suffered more horrendous than can be measured in dollars.




thompsonx -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 2:57:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

1. Those who are active bigots should stop.
2. Those who are pc bigots should stop.
3. Those who don't know what they are talking about should get a clue.
4. Treat everyone like they were really your kin.[/b


Bigotry is in the heart, T. You cannot legislate it away unfortunately.

Wanna bet?

Yes, the wealthy have advantages. I saw it on the evening news. Come on, T!!! Tell me something that is not so fucking obvious. For example.....

Why do Asian children succeed?

Perhaps the demographic of the Asain children is different from Blacks. The overwhelming majority of Asains coming to this country are legal and highly educated...
Do you suppose the outcome would be different if the demographic from Asia were the same as he demographic from Blacks?



They are children of color? Why did Jewish children succeed when they were the victims of institutional discrimination?

Same reason as above.

Family motivation. Community motivation. More community organizers to reach out to parents and kids. It is happeneing in Harlem and in the South Bronx.


You ask the first two questions and then answer it with this.
Typically Asains come to school with a positive attitude. Because of reason you cannot be unfamiliar with Blacks typically do not.
Black children from Black families with strong ties to intellectualism do better than their peers who do not...same same Asain, Latino, or what ever.






heartcream -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 3:20:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

I don't disagree with you. It isn't 100% an issue of race. However, I'd still argue that it partly was. Whatever. We aren't going to solve this ourselves.

I think your statement about having each citizen given the same opportunities and tools for self reliance is the most telling. I agree with you but we are so far from that day that it is laughable to even discuss it.


Hey you, nice to see you posting here. Wow who knew?

I am loving what you are reflecting here in so many well said heartfelt posts.

Just today I was riding my bike through the super rich. Their homes are so sick, I am like, me, me, me.

I passed a prestigious school. Young girls were playing and running. The older girls out on the lawn in another area for lunch. In their cute uniforms. In big groups sitting around eating, maybe 100 girls or so. I imagined how relaxed anyone would be about their future and all that someone would be able to feel sitting on that lawn, knowing they were getting the best possible education. I quickly tried to see what money and prestige looked like. Pretty round white faces with long healthy hair. I saw one beautiful East Indian or Muslim woman among the crowd. That was it. Their school is old and big and beautiful. Surrounded by homes the size of a small strip plaza, twice as high. A million times prettier. Loads of cars, loads and loads of shiny nice cars...beautiful gardens, architecture, iron wrought handrails, sculpture on the lawn...

I rolled along and down at the bottom of the street came a ginormous playing field. Astro turf. I am talking like four blocks big or something. All the young men and boys out getting some exercise. Their school wraps the entire corner and goes really far back. Surrounded by escalades of slate and stone homes.

To the bolded part I will say to you, dont be so sure how long it could take. One of my favorite people on the planet said it could happen in the twinkling of an eye!





Elisabella -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 3:44:58 PM)

-FR-

Alright, you know what, I think I would support reparations. If people really think it's going to make things better, just name the price. The government should offer at least $10k to start out with, for anyone who's descended from an African slave. And then it will be all better. Seriously. There will be no more 150 year grudge, any resentment over slavery could be ended with a simple "stfu, you got reparations, it's fixed now."

Because then it will be fixed, right? No more problem at all? Cash settlement, case closed. It would probably work out in both parties best interest because they can both look to the future instead of the past.

So yeah. Reparations. Anyone who complains about slavery after receiving them will be fined an amount equal to the reparations they were given. I'd vote for it.




heartcream -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 3:52:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

-FR-

Alright, you know what, I think I would support reparations. If people really think it's going to make things better, just name the price. The government should offer at least $10k to start out with, for anyone who's descended from an African slave. And then it will be all better. Seriously. There will be no more 150 year grudge, any resentment over slavery could be ended with a simple "stfu, you got reparations, it's fixed now."

Because then it will be fixed, right? No more problem at all? Cash settlement, case closed. It would probably work out in both parties best interest because they can both look to the future instead of the past.

So yeah. Reparations. Anyone who complains about slavery after receiving them will be fined an amount equal to the reparations they were given. I'd vote for it.



I would vote for loads of reparations and unconditional acceptance for all the venting etc, needed to work through it until it is all healed for real.




Elisabella -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 3:54:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream
I would vote for loads of reparations and unconditional acceptance for all the venting etc, needed to work through it until it is all healed for real.



See that's the thing - either reparations will fix the problem or it won't.

If it'll fix the problem, there's no use talking about the problem anymore.

If it won't fix the problem, well then it's not much of a solution is it?




Silence8 -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 7:13:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

So yeah. Reparations. Anyone who complains about slavery after receiving them will be fined an amount equal to the reparations they were given. I'd vote for it.


Reminds me of laws against holocaust denial...

Although, after all, the Jews did get Israel, err, right?




JonnieBoy -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 10:10:19 PM)

Far canal ! ... why the dyayum fcuck Yanks both love and hate on the slave thing but I can't get it. Bunch of fucking Romans had more civility if you ask me (at least they announced the torture before they started). The (your) empire is finished, by your own egotism it's bound to now die.

USA 4 SA 2010

Thats worth a tort.

Pirate





JonnieBoy -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 10:14:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

Although, after all, the Jews did get Israel, err, right?



No ... the "Jews" did not get "Israel" ... there's a lot of Israelis who got in the way.

Pirate




tazzygirl -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/26/2010 11:21:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

So yeah. Reparations. Anyone who complains about slavery after receiving them will be fined an amount equal to the reparations they were given. I'd vote for it.


Reminds me of laws against holocaust denial...

Although, after all, the Jews did get Israel, err, right?



Oh get off your whiney ass soap box. You want to label me a bigot? have at it. im half sioux. I didnt support the bail out... but WE the people were not asked.

Reparations is one of those topics that keeps popping up from time to time to cause a shit storm in order to divert the attention away from the issues at hand.

Your ancestors were held in bondage (assuming they were) for 400 years.

So were mine.

They had to fight for their freedom.

So did mine.

Yours was given land and a mule.

Every inch of land promised to natives was taken away. They finally, in order to settle the unrest and killings of whites, gave the natives reservation land... in the desert.

A check wont help anyone. Education, health and a roof over their heads will. If you dont like the way education is run, get involved, local level on up. Demand changes. Work towards those changes. The Civil Rights movement began that way. There is strength in numbers.

Here is some interesting reading, since someone insisted i threw in a straw man argument.

Barriers to economic development

Today, other than tribes successfully running casinos, many tribes struggle. There are an estimated 2.1 million Native Americans, and they are the most impoverished of all ethnic groups. According to the 2000 Census, an estimated 400,000 Native Americans reside on reservation land. While some tribes have had success with gaming, only 40% of the 562 federally recognized tribes operate casinos.[139] According to a 2007 survey by the U.S. Small Business Administration, only 1 percent of Native Americans own and operate a business.[140] Native Americans rank at the bottom of nearly every social statistic: highest teen suicide rate of all minorities at 18.5 per 100,000, highest rate of teen pregnancy, highest high school drop out rate at 54%, lowest per capita income, and unemployment rates between 50% to 90%.
The barriers to economic development on Native American reservations often cited by others and two experts Joseph Kalt[141] and Stephen Cornell[142] of the Harvard Project on American Indian Economic Development at Harvard University, in their classic report: What Can Tribes Do? Strategies and Institutions in American Indian Economic Development,[143] are as follows (incomplete list, see full Kalt & Cornell report):

Lack of access to capital.
Lack of human capital (education, skills, technical expertise) and the means to develop it.
Reservations lack effective planning.
Reservations are poor in natural resources.
Reservations have natural resources, but lack sufficient control over them.
Reservations are disadvantaged by their distance from markets and the high costs of transportation.
Tribes cannot persuade investors to locate on reservations because of intense competition from non-Native American communities.
The Bureau of Indian Affairs is inept, corrupt, and/or uninterested in reservation development.
Tribal politicians and bureaucrats are inept or corrupt.
On-reservation factionalism destroys stability in tribal decisions.
The instability of tribal government keeps outsiders from investing.
Entrepreneurial skills and experience are scarce.
Tribal cultures get in the way.
One of the major barriers for overcoming the economic strife is the lack of entrepreneurial knowledge and experience across Indian reservations. “A general lack of education and experience about business is a significant challenge to prospective entrepreneurs,” also says another report on Native American entrepreneurship by the Northwest Area Foundation in 2004. “Native American communities that lack entrepreneurial traditions and recent experiences typically do not provide the support that entrepreneurs need to thrive. Consequently, experiential entrepreneurship education needs to be embedded into school curricula and after-school and other community activities. This would allow students to learn the essential elements of entrepreneurship from a young age and encourage them to apply these elements throughout life.”[144]. One publication devoted to addressing these issues is Rez Biz magazine.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States#Societal_discrimination.2C_racism_and_conflicts

Just when you believe you have it so bad, along comes another group that has it worse. Gates should be advocating improvements in the educational system and health care instead of insiting on checks... checks that will quickly be gone, the people they were intended to help left with little to show for it, and not a single change in their situation.




DomYngBlk -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/27/2010 4:40:58 AM)

Tazzy, there is no doubt that the general ignorance about the life of the Tribes is great in our Country. What you state is correct and I can't imagine anyone would disagree that what we have done and still do to the Tribes is a disgrace. I think the last number I saw on Avg Income is around 3,500$ per year. Our industrialists are so fixated on creating new mecca's of capitalism in India and China they fail to take stock in our own country. In my opinion, this is where Gov't policy comes in. Until we have a coherent policy on our economy with a full decided way forward to protect people and workers rights then we are going to keep foundering along.




GotSteel -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/27/2010 4:45:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8 And make criminal backgrounds disappear once 'criminals' (usually black people) 'serve' (woops... the truth came out) their time.

Thought I'd throw some reality at your racist ranting: http://www.bop.gov/about/facts.jsp

Inmates By Race White:121,649(57.9 %) Black:81,054(38.6 %) Native American:3,783(1.8 %) Asian:3,673(1.7 %)
              Hispanic:69,385(33.0 %)


P.S. I'm part Scottish, can I get some reparations?




DomYngBlk -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/27/2010 4:45:55 AM)

Hey you, nice to see you posting here. Wow who knew?

I am loving what you are reflecting here in so many well said heartfelt posts.

Just today I was riding my bike through the super rich. Their homes are so sick, I am like, me, me, me.

I passed a prestigious school. Young girls were playing and running. The older girls out on the lawn in another area for lunch. In their cute uniforms. In big groups sitting around eating, maybe 100 girls or so. I imagined how relaxed anyone would be about their future and all that someone would be able to feel sitting on that lawn, knowing they were getting the best possible education. I quickly tried to see what money and prestige looked like. Pretty round white faces with long healthy hair. I saw one beautiful East Indian or Muslim woman among the crowd. That was it. Their school is old and big and beautiful. Surrounded by homes the size of a small strip plaza, twice as high. A million times prettier. Loads of cars, loads and loads of shiny nice cars...beautiful gardens, architecture, iron wrought handrails, sculpture on the lawn...

I rolled along and down at the bottom of the street came a ginormous playing field. Astro turf. I am talking like four blocks big or something. All the young men and boys out getting some exercise. Their school wraps the entire corner and goes really far back. Surrounded by escalades of slate and stone homes.

To the bolded part I will say to you, dont be so sure how long it could take. One of my favorite people on the planet said it could happen in the twinkling of an eye! - HeartCream

 
Thank you. Sometimes I have a thought.

One of the most troubling things to me is the amount of endowment money that the Ivy League or Little Ivy League Schools possess. To me it is a disgusting display that they have Millions and in some cases billions in reserve and most other systems are forced with cutbacks and layoffs in Higher Education. Until this system is addressed there will be no equal opportunity for Education in America






LadyEllen -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/27/2010 4:58:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8 And make criminal backgrounds disappear once 'criminals' (usually black people) 'serve' (woops... the truth came out) their time.

Thought I'd throw some reality at your racist ranting: http://www.bop.gov/about/facts.jsp

Inmates By Race White:121,649(57.9 %) Black:81,054(38.6 %) Native American:3,783(1.8 %) Asian:3,673(1.7 %)
             Hispanic:69,385(33.0 %)



Yes, but this ignores the percentage of each population as a proportion of the total population, by which it becomes readily apparent that pro rata far more "Black" people are in prison than "White" people.

That the US prison system provides slave labour to big business is another matter

E




DomYngBlk -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/27/2010 5:03:39 AM)

LadyEllen, to that ilk the percentages don't overcome the sheer numbers. Any way you carve that particular beast it will always come back you the same way.




GotSteel -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/27/2010 8:04:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Yes, but this ignores the percentage of each population as a proportion of the total population, by which it becomes readily apparent that pro rata far more "Black" people are in prison than "White" people.

That the US prison system provides slave labour to big business is another matter

E

I was rebutting Silence8's claim of "usually", what exactly is your point?




LadyEllen -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/27/2010 8:12:23 AM)

My point is that something like one in five "black" males between the ages of 18 and 35 are in prison at any one time but the stats as you presented them seemed to suggest that the proportion of "black" people in prison was not out of kilter with other ethnic groups.

E






thompsonx -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (4/27/2010 8:30:01 AM)

quote:

Inmates By Race
White:121,649(57.9 %)...Whites are about 66 % of U.S. population.
Black:81,054(38.6 %)...Blacks are about 13% of the U.S. population.
Native American:3,783(1.8 %)...Native Americans are about 2% of the U.S. population.
Asian:3,673(1.7 %) ...Asains are about 4% of the U.S.population.
Hispanic:69,385(33.0 %)...Hispanics are about 16% of the U.S. Population.

It would appear that black and brown people are more highly represented in our prisons than their population percentage is in the general public.




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