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RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 5:38:44 AM   
shannie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Yea, I was thinking the same thing. Every job I have gotten in the last 20 years (ok there were only 3 but still) has required a copy of my ss and my drivers license. Then they fill out the government form proving they actually checked the id to prove you were eligible to work here and kept the copies in your file.

I have had to carry a dl in MI most of my life, I don't see what difference carrying a fed id would be.



Yes, that's right, you have to show those documents because of the "Immigration Reform Act of 1986."  That law did nothing to control immigration.  And now you say, "Well we already do that, so what's the harm in taking it one step further?"  Again in the name of immigration control, and again without doing anything to secure the borders.

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RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 6:01:47 AM   
shannie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

That you have also exaggerated how often this National ID (probably no more than an SS card) would be required as well as complaining that your freedom will somehow be impinged on shows, at best, lack of knowledge.



Once the federal government produces this "indestructible card with a microchip," you can rest assured we'll soon be required to carry it at all times, show it to prove we're "eligible to work," show it to enter public buildings, and etc., etc..  Sorry, but I don't call that "freedom."  I don't give a damn what people are required to do in Canada or Europe or anywhere else.  Yes, when I am in many parts of the world, I expect armed thugs to stop me on the street and demand "papers." It's what's always set my own country apart in my mind -- but I guess that's coming to an end. 

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RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 6:15:41 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

That you have also exaggerated how often this National ID (probably no more than an SS card) would be required as well as complaining that your freedom will somehow be impinged on shows, at best, lack of knowledge.



Once the federal government produces this "indestructible card with a microchip," you can rest assured we'll soon be required to carry it at all times, show it to prove we're "eligible to work," show it to enter public buildings, and etc., etc..  Sorry, but I don't call that "freedom."  I don't give a damn what people are required to do in Canada or Europe or anywhere else.  Yes, when I am in many parts of the world, I expect armed thugs to stop me on the street and demand "papers." It's what's always set my own country apart in my mind -- but I guess that's coming to an end. 



In the grand scheme of things, so what. Seriously, how is showing a card making you less free? You still have the freedom to apply for jobs, the card won't stop you from doing that, it will just prevent people who don't have the right to work in the U.S. from getting jobs. Which is a good thing, right? It won't stop you from going everywhere you go now. Honestly if showing a card.....yes, a card...is the best you can find to complain about, life is good. There are places in the world where the citizens have a whole lot more to complain about than having to present a card.


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RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 6:26:01 AM   
martin772010


Posts: 5
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Status: offline 		at least it might make it easier to join a video store :)

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 6:32:28 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
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From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		Damn you almost made me choke on my toast, lol!  Come to Canada, we don't need to use our SIN cards to join video stores 

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 6:40:12 AM   
shannie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

In the grand scheme of things, so what. Seriously, how is showing a card making you less free? You still have the freedom to apply for jobs, the card won't stop you from doing that, it will just prevent people who don't have the right to work in the U.S. from getting jobs. Which is a good thing, right? It won't stop you from going everywhere you go now. Honestly if showing a card.....yes, a card...is the best you can find to complain about, life is good. There are places in the world where the citizens have a whole lot more to complain about than having to present a card.



Well our positions are clear then. You don't mind  being forced to carry a government microchip-embedded ID card.  I do. 

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 6:48:18 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

In the grand scheme of things, so what. Seriously, how is showing a card making you less free? You still have the freedom to apply for jobs, the card won't stop you from doing that, it will just prevent people who don't have the right to work in the U.S. from getting jobs. Which is a good thing, right? It won't stop you from going everywhere you go now. Honestly if showing a card.....yes, a card...is the best you can find to complain about, life is good. There are places in the world where the citizens have a whole lot more to complain about than having to present a card.



Well our positions are clear then. You don't mind  being forced to carry a government microchip-embedded ID card.  I do. 



I am glad that you don't have more to worry about than this; it's a sign of living somewhere good and safe.  There are people in this world who have far more important things to worry about....you know, food, shelter, little things like that. I choose to not sweat the smaller stuff like showing a card which takes all of two seconds and after which I'm free to go whereever I like. I also don't sweat showing my passport when I travel out of Canada, in the grand scheme of things it's no biggie. That you dramatize it all with words like "force" and "hundreds of millions of Mexicans and Canadians (wtf?)" "pouring over the border" just makes me laugh, it's typical of those who are misinformed and need to exaggerate to make their point. Trust me, we Canadians aren't pouring over the border to live in the U.S.

BTW you never did address my comment on those traits you consider uniquely "American".......interesting.


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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 6:57:31 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		I am not sure what your position is shannie.  You don't want a card showing proof you're a citizen.  You just want people to believe you on your word?  So only you...or at best a chosen few...would be exempt to having to prove your an American.  It's already been determined SS#'s and Dr licenses can be faked.  We haven't perfected a system to eliminate those fakes cards.  Yet, you want something done about legal immigration (or illegal, at times I'm not sure which you are fighting against or for).  Most of the people of the United States, save the Native American Indians, came from lands across the seas in all directions.  Your ancestry too, probably dates back to another country and your ancestors migrated here as immigrants (unless you are indeed a Native American).  Its only by them settling in and thru the generations you became a full-fledged native born American.  So, is your POV that only those immigrants who came here generations ago are allowed to remain because they've produced enough generations here on American soil for us to be native Americans...and immigrants coming here today have no business coming here?  

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 7:02:18 AM   
thornhappy


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Status: offline 		Hell, they don't even have to bother with the visas.  They just open design centers in Eastern Europe and China.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Actually, I'm not against immigration.  I'm against illegal immigration.


You don't mind hundreds of thousands, or millions, of foreigners flooding the job market here -- as long as they have a permit to do so?



Not only that but the fact that US Corporations use the H1 to keep pay for talented professionals such as Engineers and Programmers low by bringing offshore workers. Of course, they add insult to injury by claiming we don't produce enough talented people to fill the need.....Which is obviously a bunch of shit.  If what they say is true then a US company wouldn't have to patent a product because the China or India would already have produced such a product. Its all a game with Corporations holding all the cards......The people need to stand up and stand up now

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 7:11:36 AM   
shannie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Trust me, we Canadians aren't pouring over the border to live in the U.S.



Hundreds of thousands of Mexicans and Canadians are permitted to come to the US legally to take skilled jobs in this country through the NAFTA program. Millions of skilled workers and their families from all over the world are permitted to come here legally through other programs.  That's why there's no point is forcing Americans to carry a microchip-embedded ID card in order to "save American jobs."  

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/ni_fr_2009.pdf

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 7:26:47 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		AND they are allowed to do that when employers show need.

An argument for improving our educational system.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 7:29:01 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
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Status: offline 		I welcome the educated Canadians and Mexicans into the land of retardation.

We are certainly not providing the minds of the future.

We are willing to spend billions of dollars on defense and a couple of wars over the fact that a few terrorists killed three thousand people. We are such pussies. We routinely kill thousands of citizens each year and wound many more by providing a really shitty education to the people of this land.

Our ability to protect what is important is incredibly skewed. Wars might be won and lost on the battlefield but without a an educated population we will soon enough become a marginalized and crippled nation. We will have lost the battle that truly mattered.

Hola.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 7:32:34 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

This whole idea that "Americans" are this special breed far above everyone else makes me nuts.


Incidentally, feeling they are a special breed above everyone else is also true of Japan. And India. And Brazil. And China. And Pakistan. And Argentina. And Russia. And Iran. And Norway. And the Ukraine. And Scotland. And Java. And Serbia.

And....well, you get my drift.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 7:37:48 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		But more than need, Master, the employer must show that there are is noone in the US who can fill the position.

Shannie, I've tried to immigrate to be with my (at the time) Master through empolyment, it isn't all that easy, which is why I scoffed at your " pouring over the borders" comment. In fact I've pretty much given up on that as a way to move to the U.S.

Hmmm still no answer to my question, could it be you don't have a foot to stand on?


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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 7:40:17 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

This whole idea that "Americans" are this special breed far above everyone else makes me nuts.


Incidentally, feeling they are a special breed above everyone else is also true of Japan. And India. And Brazil. And China. And Pakistan. And Argentina. And Russia. And Iran. And Norway. And the Ukraine. And Scotland. And Java. And Serbia.

And....well, you get my drift.


True, Master, and point taken. It is more the qualities she ascribes as being "uniquely" those of U.S. citizens that irritates me.


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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 7:45:02 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

But more than need, Master, the employer must show that there are is noone in the US who can fill the position.


And that's what creates the need.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 7:49:28 AM   
masternoname


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quote:

True, Master, and point taken. It is more the qualities she ascribes as being "uniquely" those of U.S. citizens that irritates me.


Tis true that attitude can be a bit much to take. The us is made up of people from countries all over the world, yet there are some who seem to think they all march in lock step and are colletively arragant, ignorant, racist and lack humor. I have found in my wanders that basically they are people just like the ones to the north and south. They love their families and want to be able to work and take care of them.

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 7:52:36 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

But more than need, Master, the employer must show that there are is noone in the US who can fill the position.


And that's what creates the need.


Then why is it so hard to find work in the U.S.? Surely either the positions should be filled if there are people to fill them or it should be possible to find work - and yes there are people who do - yet I've never so much as gotten a response at all. Yes I do have usable skills, I'm a medical secretary with 15+ years experience. Yet the positions I applied to went unfilled. It's not like they were new postings either, some were months and months old despite stating that they are desperate and need the position filled right away.


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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 7:57:55 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Not being familiar with the situation, I can't say. Perhaps they are unwilling to go through the red tape.

We import doctors and computer specialists almost routinely, especially from India.

Which raises a point--the country of origin matters. It's not an evenly applied policy.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 8:19:57 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Not being familiar with the situation, I can't say. Perhaps they are unwilling to go through the red tape.

We import doctors and computer specialists almost routinely, especially from India.

Which raises a point--the country of origin matters. It's not an evenly applied policy.


I suspect the same thing, which is frustrating but understandable....and yes country of origin matters. Canada isn't on the list of countries eligible for the Green Card lottery, while countries like India are. Perhaps it has to do with countries eligible for immigration, but I'm just speculating of course. It's not like I think it's because I'm Canadian. It's just frustrating is all; I'm more than willing to work and I have skills which would enable me to find work, it's not getting the chance to move there and use those skills that's frustrating.


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Profile   Post #: 100
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