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RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 8:31:16 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

That you have also exaggerated how often this National ID (probably no more than an SS card) would be required as well as complaining that your freedom will somehow be impinged on shows, at best, lack of knowledge.



Once the federal government produces this "indestructible card with a microchip," you can rest assured we'll soon be required to carry it at all times, show it to prove we're "eligible to work," show it to enter public buildings, and etc., etc..  Sorry, but I don't call that "freedom." 


Quite frankly I do call it freedom...back home in Germany it is one of a few measures who speeds up for the police to discover illegale immigrants in the country when they do their checks, eg at building sides or even at public controls...as of course people who aren't legal in the country either don't have one or have one which is not a genuine one...

We have to carry it around with us from the age of 16 onwards and knowing how here in the UK the government doesnt really know who is member in their country and who isnt I have no problem to identify myself with it when necessary (which actually isn't often the case and right now I need to get a new one as once again my wallet got lost or nicked over here...thank goodness I do still have a passport to travel, though) because as a citizen from a country I do prefer when there is some sort of system to know who is there legal and who not and it takes much longer to verify such a status when you don't have such a legal document in place.

Furthermore I am glad that I dont need my passport for every travel as that card is sufficient within europe to travel.

So for me drama about ID cards is what I call dramallama...


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(in reply to shannie)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 8:41:52 AM   
shannie


Posts: 200
Joined: 1/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

But more than need, Master, the employer must show that there are is noone in the US who can fill the position.

Shannie, I've tried to immigrate to be with my (at the time) Master through empolyment, it isn't all that easy, which is why I scoffed at your " pouring over the borders" comment. In fact I've pretty much given up on that as a way to move to the U.S.

Hmmm still no answer to my question, could it be you don't have a foot to stand on?



You're not a "skilled laborer" then.

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 8:43:31 AM   
shannie


Posts: 200
Joined: 1/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

AND they are allowed to do that when employers show need.

An argument for improving our educational system.


The employers do not have to show need for the H1B or NAFTA programs.

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 8:44:39 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, she is. Medical transcriptionists are not easy to come by.

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 8:49:36 AM   
shannie


Posts: 200
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Actually, she is. Medical transcriptionists are not easy to come by.


Well, I consider her skilled, but the law doesn't:

http://www.consular.canada.usembassy.gov/nafta_professions.asp

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 9:09:48 AM   
shannie


Posts: 200
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

AND they are allowed to do that when employers show need.

An argument for improving our educational system.


MM, it's not that we don't produce qualified engineers, programmers, etc.  The whole labor certification thing is a sham, where the employer jumps through hoops to somehow "disqualify" qualified American workers. 

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun2007/db20070621_912042.htm?chan=search

But my point is not whether we should allow such workers into the country.  My point is that the immigration debate often wrongly focuses on illegal immigrants "stealing our jobs," when in fact, the law allows them to steal our jobs (as long as they are middle class jobs).  So American are being duped into supporting police measures like the one in Arizona, or a national microchip embedded ID -- when the government has no intention of securing the borders, limiting immigration, or saving American jobs.





(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 9:12:03 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Actually, she is. Medical transcriptionists are not easy to come by.


True, and neither are medical secretaries, which is what most of my experience is in.


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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 9:39:40 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Trust me, we Canadians aren't pouring over the border to live in the U.S.



Hundreds of thousands of Mexicans and Canadians are permitted to come to the US legally to take skilled jobs in this country through the NAFTA program. Millions of skilled workers and their families from all over the world are permitted to come here legally through other programs.  That's why there's no point is forcing Americans to carry a microchip-embedded ID card in order to "save American jobs."  

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/ni_fr_2009.pdf



Shannie, when faced with a problem or threat the federal govt. will always form another buaeracracy rather than face the problem or threat head-on!
After 9-11 two years later we got tens of thousands more people sitting in offices at good wages writing memos to each other rather than paid assasins hunting down al qeada.
And when they found some enterprising bounty hunters from the U.S. in Pakistan or Afganistan I forget which, instead of encouraging them they got them booted out of the country, can't have Bush looking bad!
"C'mon boys! Let's get those deck chairs re-arranged double time!"

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 9:47:52 AM   
shannie


Posts: 200
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Shannie, when faced with a problem or threat the federal govt. will always form another buaeracracy rather than face the problem or threat head-on!
After 9-11 two years later we got tens of thousands more people sitting in offices at good wages writing memos to each other rather than paid assasins hunting down al qeada.
And when they found some enterprising bounty hunters from the U.S. in Pakistan or Afganistan I forget which, instead of encouraging them they got them booted out of the country, can't have Bush looking bad!
"C'mon boys! Let's get those deck chairs re-arranged double time!"


Exactly Popeye.  The proposed micro-chip-embedded ID card will result in more bureacracy,  more waste of public money, more intrusions into privacy, more impositions on the citizens -- and nothing in return.   That's why I keep saying, if they're not gonna control the influx of millions of skilled foreign workers who come in legally, and they're not gonna secure the border -- then at least leave me the hell alone.  

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 9:48:44 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Shannie there are not enough nurses...Supply and demand. We don't produce them that they will come from somewhere else....

I have no problem with any of this.

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 9:51:22 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

AND they are allowed to do that when employers show need.

An argument for improving our educational system.


MM, it's not that we don't produce qualified engineers, programmers, etc.  The whole labor certification thing is a sham, where the employer jumps through hoops to somehow "disqualify" qualified American workers. 

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun2007/db20070621_912042.htm?chan=search

But my point is not whether we should allow such workers into the country.  My point is that the immigration debate often wrongly focuses on illegal immigrants "stealing our jobs," when in fact, the law allows them to steal our jobs (as long as they are middle class jobs).  So American are being duped into supporting police measures like the one in Arizona, or a national microchip embedded ID -- when the government has no intention of securing the borders, limiting immigration, or saving American jobs.

We're back to what's the solution to your rant?

Protectionism doesn't work. It's hard on the economy, kills off large portions of our markets, and is much harder and much more expensive to implement than you seem to get.

Yes, you're into reciting your "globalism as meme" mantra. Part of that is true--PART--in that it's used as an excuse for this that and the other thing. But that doesn't change that it's also TRUE that this is a global economy. No amount of rant will change that. You can make it more artificial if you wish, but that just adds more walls, rather than solve anything.

Why not push for more practical solutions? Promoting more relatively local trade, without prohibiting other trade in the process, would certainly have benefits, especially in reducing transportation costs. AND expanding our exports further will also help--hell, just as a free lancer I've done work for clients in Canada and Japan. Promoting local generation of power will also help--this is one key benefit of solar, that it can be done cleanly anywhere, right at the site.

We DO import highly skilled labor we just don't have here--especially doctors and computer experts. How about making college education free? That's an investment that would pay much better and much longer than fences and armies of enforcement officers and immigration lawyers that are never going to be able to secure such a large border anyway.

And instead of staunchly opposing it, and whether it's fair, giving immigrants a legal pathway simply makes practical sense.

That's really the immigration problem in the U.S. -- outrage far outweighs practical solutions.

(in reply to shannie)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 9:56:11 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		We produce mediocre cars and ditch diggers.

Thank god we have a supply of intelligent immigrants to help us run our technology and administer our medication.

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 9:57:32 AM   
shannie


Posts: 200
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Shannie there are not enough nurses...Supply and demand. We don't produce them that they will come from somewhere else....

I have no problem with any of this.


No problem with a microchip-embedded national ID card on the premise of "controlling immigration?"

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 10:00:13 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		See, we keep coming back to this.

I oppose the chip idea, as it's a pathway to tracking citizens.

Yet, most citizens already voluntarily allow themselves to be tracked by carrying a cell phone.


(in reply to shannie)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 10:01:30 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Shannie, when faced with a problem or threat the federal govt. will always form another buaeracracy rather than face the problem or threat head-on!
After 9-11 two years later we got tens of thousands more people sitting in offices at good wages writing memos to each other rather than paid assasins hunting down al qeada.
And when they found some enterprising bounty hunters from the U.S. in Pakistan or Afganistan I forget which, instead of encouraging them they got them booted out of the country, can't have Bush looking bad!
"C'mon boys! Let's get those deck chairs re-arranged double time!"


Exactly Popeye.  The proposed micro-chip-embedded ID card will result in more bureacracy,  more waste of public money, more intrusions into privacy, more impositions on the citizens -- and nothing in return.   That's why I keep saying, if they're not gonna control the influx of millions of skilled foreign workers who come in legally, and they're not gonna secure the border -- then at least leave me the hell alone.  



Shannie, I don't need no "stinkin' badges!"
I'm retired military, I wonder if they consider that "skilled?" I know how to use a machine gun!
I never had a "degree" until I was 40. And then I was like, "Yeah? So now they have to pay me more?"
There's a lot of politicians in Washington who'll be turning in their "stinkin' badges" after November 2nd. I think any congressman or senator who doesn't want to enforce our immigration laws should "come out" and say so to their constituents! But some of them don't seem to want to do that, I wonder why?
You know, when I was in the USCG I think the Taxpayers got the most bang for their buck out of us.
We'd work 80-100 hours per week sometimes if we had to and there was a saying that we had, "you have to go out but you don't have to come back."
It seems the more "skilled" you are in the govt the less you do.

P.S. watching the news now. The USCG is working their asses off with that oil slick, President Obama is, ... "playing golf."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/1/2010 10:04:11 AM >

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 10:03:22 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Never going to happen...Get your head out of your ass.

Go get a job with popeye chasing down al qeada. Hopefully you have the necessary skills.

When you start agreeing with popeye I can understand now why your job was or will soon be outsourced or go to some immigant. It probably has little to do with your set of skills and much more to do with you being you.

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 10:10:11 AM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		The entire illegal immigrant problem will be solved right after someone figures out how to out-source legal services.

~Dave

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 10:16:49 AM   
masternoname


Posts: 164
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Never going to happen...Get your head out of your ass.

Go get a job with popeye chasing down al qeada. Hopefully you have the necessary skills.

When you start agreeing with popeye I can understand now why your job was or will soon be outsourced or go to some immigant. It probably has little to do with your set of skills and much more to do with you being you.



I dont get here often

but when I do

I always enjoy your posts

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 10:22:25 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I always liked your hobbit avatar.

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID - 5/1/2010 10:23:35 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		They already do. My owner has outsourced legal work to India, it is a growing and booming business. Anything that can be outsourced will be, it is just a matter of time.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

The entire illegal immigrant problem will be solved right after someone figures out how to out-source legal services.

~Dave


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Profile   Post #: 120
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