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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 2:10:07 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Ok, the huge misconception about this whole thread is that this is really about more than just sex or fucking.

The issue is much deeper than this in my mind.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 2:10:31 PM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

IMO it is perfectly possible. I am in friendship with quite a few guys who are hetero and there is nothing else and never will be....personally I prefer friendship to men compared to women as they are sooooooooo much easier to get along with....just my view.



This is me. I know it's possible. And it's my view as well.

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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 2:11:49 PM   
vield


Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Lady Angelika,

I have many friends of various genders and preferences.

The reason I have lots of friends is that I am an outgoing open minded person with a LOT of life experience and many interests (kinky and otherwise). Thus I often find friendship among people who are interesting and intelligent who share my interests.

I also very much enjoy teaching my interests (kinky and otherwise) to others.

For me, if I am in a teaching situation (even a kinky one) I feel it is not ethical for me to pursue sexuality with anyone currently a student of mine.

Friendship is OK.

Friendship certainly can grow into real intimacy over time, especially once the teaching part is over and things have been negotiated.

A lesson most guys need to learn as they mature is that being physically attracted to someone does NOT mean they are going to also be attracted to you.

Once a person is a friend they are dear to me. This does NOT mean I need to "get it on" with them. However it does mean that superficial factors of personal appearance are no longer a big factor.

A powerfully submissive or dominant woman attracts me more by her intelligence and her submissive or dominant energy than by her body shape and size.

If I am greatly attracted to a friend with whom I share kinky interests, at some point my attraction will be made known to her. Unless she also feels a similar attraction to me, this will not go beyond casual compliments.

I am respectful of my many diverse friends and their diverse interests and relationships, so I have become dear friends with some people whose interests are far different from mine.

Diversity makes life quite interesting.

Those who limit themselves as you described are certainly giving you a message about themselves, but they do NOT speak for anyone else.



_____________________________

As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 2:13:08 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		From my perspective, there isn't any sexual tension in most such friendships, unless they're someone I used to date. I just don't think of people as being sexual until they specifically let me know they're interested. A lot of my heterosexual male friends are married or in a LTR, and I've been friends with them and their SO for years.

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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 2:19:33 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
quote:


What are the reasons you don't want to sleep with them?
Is it because you don't find them attractive or is it because you value your friendship with them more and don't want to ruin it


It's because I don't find them physically attractive; if they are attractive, then I want to have sex with them, on a physical level, if nothing else... those little movies play in the mind's eye, but that does not mean I would try, or allow, it to happen.


Ok, sorry to pick on you Level, but your answers are generating more questions for me.

Here is the situation. I know that one has on several occasions made comments about how I ooze sensuality or how I have this little something that catches men's attention, about how I'm like the perfect woman because everything is just easy with me. He calls me honey, baby, and recently "my love" in an affectionate way. I never made anything of it. I put him in the friend not lover category a long time ago. After years and years of friendship, of travelling together, of sharing just about everything about our personal lives, I personally felt no moments of sexual tension. I have been known to be naive about guys liking me though...

Is this like a bad episode of Friends? Ha!

So assuming based on what you are saying that you wouldn't necessarily try or allow it to happen, why?

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 5/15/2010 2:20:11 PM >

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 2:20:06 PM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		I'll pass that on...

Honestly, I think the 2 guys you were talking to are idiots that have a hard time relating to women as people with qualities and attributes that make them of value outside the realm of sexuality.

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'Smile... it's the second best thing to do with your lips.'


I have an explosive personality...


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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 2:22:13 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbcurious

I'll pass that on...

Honestly, I think the 2 guys you were talking to are idiots that have a hard time relating to women as people with qualities and attributes that make them of value outside the realm of sexuality.


The group that I was talking to was 8 guys, and though I understand their opinion isn't very popular here, trust me when I tell you that they are all far from being idiots.

And at the risk of sounding like a parrot, they weren't saying that it was all sexual.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 2:34:15 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Ok, the huge misconception about this whole thread is that this is really about more than just sex or fucking.

The issue is much deeper than this in my mind.

- LA




Ah. This is where the inherent differences between women and men come into play. Men don't much analyze our hard-ons. It really doesn't go much deeper than whether we want to make love to you, or get topped by you, or strap you down for a mix of clamps, hot wax, and a six-pack of orgasms. It's sexual tension, not relationship tension.

Down deep, we are still pretty shallow.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 3:21:06 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		My experiences with South American men is that they don't have close female friends other than family members.
Having a teenage American boy, I'll agree that he has difficulty having truly platonic friendships with females.
And saying that she's your friend only because she's too ugly to turn you on says that sex does enter the situation. Because that means that if she was attractive then you wouldn't be able to have a pure friendship.


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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 3:42:02 PM   
OrpheusAgonistes


Posts: 253
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Of course, I interjected mentioning that one of my best friends is a heterosexual man and another really good friend of mine who I share a lot with is a straight man as well. They all laughed and told me I was blind. They assured me that if those guys weren't into me, my situation would be an extremely rare situation.

Are these guys bang on? Or am I the exception (I guess twice)? Or is this all macho nonsense and a man can have a meaningful with a woman he has no desire to be with? Be honest with yourselves and me, please.


In my experience, it's all slightly more complex than that.

There are few, if any, women I've been friends with for any sustained period of time about whom I've never had a stray sexual thought.  There are also few women with whom I'd ever actually go to bed once they end up sorted into the "just friends" category in my consciousness. 

Romantic and sexual impulses regarding close friends strike me as natural.  At the same time, I'm aware that the impulses and urges are transitory, sometimes even only momentary.  I'd never come on to any of the women I'm friends with now, and if any of them ever came on to me I'd probably just get confused and start laughing.  So I'd say that it's entirely possible not to be into a woman you're friends with in any way that matters, but it's also very likely that a man has had sexual thoughts about most of the women with whom he's friends.  Contrary to what John Hughes movies led me to believe growing up, it's entirely feasible to have a female best friend and not sit around pining for her and secretly wanting to take her to prom.

In the social dynamic you describe, sitting around talking with a bunch of guys, incidentally, I'm also not sure what kind of answer I'd give.  Keep in mind that when you have a bunch of guys sitting around with one woman, all the guys are likely to be posturing and posing to some degree.  If I were close to the woman, I think I'd give more or less a straight answer.  But if she were just a friendly acquaintance, or a relative stranger, then how straight would I play it?  There is much more incentive to be one of the guys giving the party line about how he'd never be friends with a woman he didn't want to sleep with than there is to give a more honest and nuanced answer.

If you pull guys aside and ask them individually, you're likely to get one kind of answer.  In groups of two you'll probably get a slightly different kind of answer.  In groups of three or more, you're going to be waist deep in bravado and machismo. 




_____________________________

What I cannot create, I do not understand.--Feynman

Every sentence I have written here is the product of some disease.-- Wittgenstein

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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 4:10:10 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I make friends with whomever I damned well please.  I have two heads to think with, and the big one is usually in charge.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to OrpheusAgonistes)
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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 4:16:32 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
quote:


What are the reasons you don't want to sleep with them?
Is it because you don't find them attractive or is it because you value your friendship with them more and don't want to ruin it


It's because I don't find them physically attractive; if they are attractive, then I want to have sex with them, on a physical level, if nothing else... those little movies play in the mind's eye, but that does not mean I would try, or allow, it to happen.


Ok, sorry to pick on you Level, but your answers are generating more questions for me.

Here is the situation. I know that one has on several occasions made comments about how I ooze sensuality or how I have this little something that catches men's attention, about how I'm like the perfect woman because everything is just easy with me. He calls me honey, baby, and recently "my love" in an affectionate way. I never made anything of it. I put him in the friend not lover category a long time ago. After years and years of friendship, of travelling together, of sharing just about everything about our personal lives, I personally felt no moments of sexual tension. I have been known to be naive about guys liking me though...

Is this like a bad episode of Friends? Ha!

So assuming based on what you are saying that you wouldn't necessarily try or allow it to happen, why?

- LA


Pick away, LA

First; if he has said things like that to you, then I am as sure as I can be, without actually being inside his head, that he HAS had sexual thoughts about you, or he is asexual, is some way.

I wouldn't try/allow sex to happen with some of the female friends, because (1) it would alter our friendship in a negative way, I fear, or (2) in one specific case, it would very possibly affect my job, and (3) with one in particular, it would create hard feelings with another friend.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 4:24:57 PM   
FetishRose


Posts: 212
Joined: 8/7/2008
Status: offline 		My best friend in the entire world is a heterosexual man.  He's the first person I call about anything, "boy trouble" to help with schoolwork, to share a laugh, or if I'm drunk and need a ride.  And he calls me for the same sorts of things. We are very comfortable around one another, and are able to discuss everything from Karl Malone impersonations to our sexualities.  Physically, we are comfortable with one another.  We ride in cars together, I spontaneously hug him, I grab him and drag him to look at something....and yet, no sexual tension is present for either of us.  We are simply not physically attracted to one another.  Not that he is ugly, because he's really not, but neither of us fall anywhere near each others preferences.
So, yes, I think that if the compatibility is there, and the sexual chemistry is not, men and women can be great friends.


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Rose-y Pose-y, Puddin' Pie. Kissed Some Dommes and Made Them Cry.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 4:28:49 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I'm gonna toss this out there... for you women that think the guy friends aren't at all sexually picqued by you, I'm telling you, if you are even remotely attractive.........

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to FetishRose)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 4:35:29 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Men have sex. Women are sex.

If its warm, wet and available..... its not always that special to men, but many will still go for it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 4:38:01 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FetishRose

My best friend in the entire world is a heterosexual man.  He's the first person I call about anything, "boy trouble" to help with schoolwork, to share a laugh, or if I'm drunk and need a ride.  And he calls me for the same sorts of things. We are very comfortable around one another, and are able to discuss everything from Karl Malone impersonations to our sexualities.  Physically, we are comfortable with one another.  We ride in cars together, I spontaneously hug him, I grab him and drag him to look at something....and yet, no sexual tension is present for either of us.  We are simply not physically attracted to one another.  Not that he is ugly, because he's really not, but neither of us fall anywhere near each others preferences.
So, yes, I think that if the compatibility is there, and the sexual chemistry is not, men and women can be great friends.




This is what self-delusion looks like.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to FetishRose)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 4:44:32 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Men have sex. Women are sex.

If its warm, wet and available..... its not always that special to men, but many will still go for it.


This is true. And that's okay, as long as there isn't dishonesty involved.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 5:05:33 PM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I'm gonna toss this out there... for you women that think the guy friends aren't at all sexually picqued by you, I'm telling you, if you are even remotely attractive.........


{Smile} Ok, I have many guy friends, relationships of varying levels of emotional intimacy. And as a general rule, yes, a woman should not be surprised that a man she is friends with has had sexual thoughts about her. I don't think it's that odd or threatening, really. There are all sorts of things that attract us to other people. That a sexual urge gives a man the opportunity to discover (personality) things that he likes about a woman that he might not have otherwise discovered isn't that surprising and I don't think it's wrong. Acknowledging that there was some level of sexual attraction at inception (and don't underestimate the indiscriminatory nature of the  male libido), or even ongoing, isn't quite the same as saying the only reason a man is friends with a woman is because he wants to bed her.

When it comes to men who are obviously carrying an ongoing torch regardless of all negative signals sent their way... that's a tricky one. Of course I think my friendship is valuable even absent the potential for sex. I have, a few times, felt the need to have extremely blunt conversations with men when they couldn't quite jump off that "potential fuck" mindset. In one case, I was informed that telling him "no, really, I like you as a human being but I am never going to have sex with you so if that's the only reason you're hanging around you should move on" was the absolute worst thing I could ever tell a man. But since I consider a man's friendship valuable even absent the potential for sex, I can't go along with that read. In another case, a good friend of mine (given an almost identical message) was really struck by it and hurt at the time, but as time went on he appreciated the clarity. We're still friends. And I feel better about our friendship when I'm not haunted by the possibility that he's letting me get away with shit because of the potential nookie. I think that's the really problematic part -- is feeling like you're not getting the true benefits of honest friendship because the person is still, in some ways, doing a sales job.

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RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 5:15:07 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Men have sex. Women are sex.

If its warm, wet and available..... its not always that special to men, but many will still go for it.


This is true. And that's okay, as long as there isn't dishonesty involved.


I quite agree. Its when games are being played.....

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: A question for heterosexual men - 5/15/2010 5:33:45 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Alright, het men, I'm looking for your perspectives.

A week ago, I was sitting with a bunch of men I know in a "business social" or networking context and later in the evening, the conversation changed to relationships. They all went on about how no heterosexual man will be friends with a woman he doesn't want to bed or more.

Of course, I interjected mentioning that one of my best friends is a heterosexual man and another really good friend of mine who I share a lot with is a straight man as well. They all laughed and told me I was blind. They assured me that if those guys weren't into me, my situation would be an extremely rare situation.

Are these guys bang on? Or am I the exception (I guess twice)? Or is this all macho nonsense and a man can have a meaningful with a woman he has no desire to be with? Be honest with yourselves and me, please.

- LA


What you were told I say bollocks to, most of my friends are women, and they know I am the perfect genleman when I am with them, I am no threat. Sure, I look at my female friends and think the fantasy, as I suspect they may also, but a fantasy is all it is, because I would rather have my delightful friends than a sexual experience, for I am not and never have been a conquest person. A thing I do know, bed a friend, that friend generally ceases to be. not an enemy, but the friend moves away into different circles of friends.

Sex, it is easy, it is easily come by, it is cheap, but friends one can trust are harder to come by.

I suspect what you were told was a thing acceptable to the group of people you were with, i.e. macho crap. What you have to ask yourself is, what if one of the group chimed in to say  something different from the conversation, would that kill the conversation dead ?

Men in groups of men, women in groups of women, there is always a ring leader,the most vociferous and commanding of the group who bolstered by their peer loyalty will venture theur own truths, untruths and downrighr lies, because they feel at ease and in agreement with the group.

Get any one of those on their own, and then discover the truth of men. Most only feel powerful, when they have a follower of their own persuasion to back them up.

Truth is in the singular, not the multiple.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 40
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