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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 4/11/2006 12:38:44 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		This is a very valuable insight for me as I tend to agree with you here - and tend to be (even though I have some vanilla friends who still don't truly understand this about me - a more private person - an introvert (I am able to "fake" extroversion fairly well; when I do that, though, it's purely in self-defense - but since I am a also "verbal" person (like to write and talk), some people still don't believe it I am-bottom-line- "shy." 

My basic "shyness" is always just below the surface - and I think I know exactly what you are talking about - because of feeling much the way you do I do not intend to go into detail - ad nauseum - about every facet of my life when I do my profile re-write.

I've seen a lot of smart people here and a lot who I am thinking are just plain gut-level intuitive types (from what I surmise anyway) - as well as bright - and a simple general description of how one thinks/feels about  _____ whatever and choice of words can go far because they'll "get it" (and you can always have further conversations and get to know them better that way). 

I am not currently even seeking a partner - I still need time to 'get my head together' - maybe a few months - and that's not just some self-protective ploy where I am stating I want "friends" when what I really want is to find out whether  there is a good 'fit" with someone (although as far a "tactics" go - I see nothing truly "wrong" with that one and am sure people do it all the time).  

But that is truly Not what I am doing - and I am stating that as well. I do want friends -I love the people on this site - and some might turn out to be better friends than others, but - 'wanting to be friends only' is not some "game"- it's what I know I really need now. And I am sticking to that (for any potential partner's sanity as much as my own). 

I know it's maybe easy to say that and might be "hard to do" - Hmmm. Guess if they don't pay attention to that need then I am going to have to be "the strong one" here - and that would be a role reversal that might indicate something to me...I will be "the strong one" in this particular instance - if I need to be (I know how to do that - I've been doing it for years, and it's my own life I am protecting, bottom line). I will take responsibilty for my own choices.I really like the people here - Ithink they're awesome - I don't want to hurt anybody. I mean we're all vulnerable beings here, are we not?

I know myself - better than anyone else - I've lived with myself for 46 years -and I know when making major decisions about venturing into any "relationship" is going to be a 'dangerous venture' for me - and also just how screwy things can maybe become when people aren't honest about this. Since I am truly in a "transiton phase" - I know there's a major risk I could really hurt someone - unintentionally maybe - but if I know the risk is there ... 
if I don't wait 2-3 months. I am "preparing to dive into the pool" - then. I am looking forward to it. I am digressing (like, starting two paragraphs ago - I need to sleep). But these boards today just clarified so much in one day it was great.

In the mean-time: I am getting myself as well-prepared as possible to be a person with their head on truly straight and reading the boards here is just so valuable to me. I am continuing the 'process' - starting tommorrow - with defining who I am and what I am seeking - with a bit more clarity than before in my profile.

I saw someone state the other day in their profile: "This profile is a work in progress" - well, ditto for me - and I am re-writing it (not all the time, but this time anyway). It will be fun. Nighty night.. - Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/11/2006 1:26:09 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 4/11/2006 2:13:50 AM   
unownedredhead


Posts: 498
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		you are not rambling.  relationships grow and change.  even those on the net.  i find i can tell my online friends things that are deeper and more meaningful than things i tell people i see every day.  i posted something tonight i have never told a living soul before now.  we open up and become intimate faster here.  we don't want to spoil that..... so sometime i think people may tell half truthes and partial lies (ok i admit semantics).  to feel the intimacy we feel here.  very few in my real life know anything about my desires, and those that do get a muted vanilla flavoured version.  we seek each other out here for a reason...... our kind is scattered.   we do prevent hurt as you said. i am like you, if directly asked something i answer truthfully,  even if i have not said anything before hoping to prevent hurt.   

liz


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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 4/11/2006 5:15:40 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: unownedredhead

you are not rambling.  relationships grow and change.  even those on the net.  i find i can tell my online friends things that are deeper and more meaningful than things i tell people i see every day.  i posted something tonight i have never told a living soul before now.  we open up and become intimate faster here.  we don't want to spoil that..... so sometime i think people may tell half truthes and partial lies (ok i admit semantics).  to feel the intimacy we feel here.  very few in my real life know anything about my desires, and those that do get a muted vanilla flavoured version.  we seek each other out here for a reason...... our kind is scattered.   we do prevent hurt as you said. i am like you, if directly asked something i answer truthfully,  even if i have not said anything before hoping to prevent hurt.   

liz



Yknow lass I've found it true also that we do become far more intimate faster on line than we may in "real" life. Perhaps because to some degree we are shielded by the net just as we are more exposed in another manner.. Yet over time I have found friends I make on the net become just as solid as the ones I make whom I see face to face..


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 4/11/2006 5:21:58 AM   
Rayne58


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Yknow lass I've found it true also that we do become far more intimate faster on line than we may in "real" life. Perhaps because to some degree we are shielded by the net just as we are more exposed in another manner.. Yet over time I have found friends I make on the net become just as solid as the ones I make whom I see face to face..



So true. Master and I have made many friends online, both in Australia and elsewhere. For the past 4 years He has organised a meeting of the aussie people on the site we both met on. Some of those people have become very close to us and even though we may not see them more than once a year, we remain close through posting, PMs and online chat and phone.

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/23/2006 11:43:08 PM   
gunship


Posts: 7
Joined: 6/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce


In my life, there is no room for lies and deception.  I am exactly the same person in the real world that people see online.  That's my real face in that photograph, and I really am 47 years old and overweight.  I see no constructive purpose in trying to hide anything about who and what I am, and I expect nothing less from those who wish to correspond or get acquainted with me.  I am, by nature, highly suspicious and distrustful of strangers and, if I learn someone has lied to me, it's going to be damned near impossible for that person to ever gain, or regain, my trust.
 
Be true to yourself; be straight with me; and we'll get along just fine.

Hello Evanesce,
I agree with your statement with my whole heart. I could not have said it better myself.
Suzanne
I guess then I must say to you in this frame Suzanne
that we must end our relationship. I wont be able to gain your trust
again so there is not a reason to be in the same abode under the conditions we both have endured since 3/15. I am sadened that I cant regain your trust, I know in myself that you can regain my trust, but its one sided.............oh well I will move forward with
the knowlege of being brutally honest will serve me well from this day forward.
Rick

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 6:23:48 AM   
GddssBella


Posts: 343
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		G'morning all:


Truth is entirely interpretational. It's largely dependent on your perspective. Everyone views things differently. What you really need to express are facts. Facts don't change. You can't spin facts. They either are or aren't.

Now, how many facts you divulge in the beginning is something else. I believe in a progression of events. I don't believe some stranger in cyber land is due your life story from the get go. You give someone the important basics, such as marital status, etc. You work up from there. Your comfort level and common sense will dictate the pace.


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella

_____________________________

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 6:33:01 AM   
Soquili


Posts: 21
Joined: 5/11/2006
From: michigan
Status: offline 		 The "right time" to tell someone the "truth" depends on the relationship with that person. Do I tell my boss/co-workers/business relationships about my sexual pref.? No.
Do I tell those who have a need to know? Yes. The rule I apply is simple, if you know enough to ask the question then you deserve the answer, -if- you ask. If you have a need to know and you don't ask about something that may affect you, I'll tell you anyway. I despise liars and think they should be second against the wall. Those who harm me or mine will be first if they are lucky enough to get away from me. ;)

"Honesty" depends less on what is "the absolute truth", than it does on the need to let you know. If it's your business to know you will, if it's not you have to know enough to ask, which usually means you get an honest answer. If that means you get TMI, then you shouldn't have asked. Everyone I know both onlione and IRL know that if you ask me a question I'll answer it honestly without regard to your reaction to the answer. You sometimes have to let folks be mature enough to deal with the understanding they gain, even if it means losing thier companionship.

As you can see the "truth" changes from person to person. My "truth" isn't yours, or his, or hers, it's what -I- believe to be true for whatever reason applies. Sometimes "truth" changes as you mature, sometimes not.


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Just an old farmboy hillbilly

Still learning after all these years.

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 7:20:00 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		MOO, YMMV.  I believe in being honest.  I have spent most of my 51 years trying to be that way.  The only times I have had serious, long-lasting consequences in my life have been when I was not.  It cost me a marriage...one I was ready to walk away from anyway, but not that way...and damaged my relationship with my kids.  When that marriage ended and my pursuit of the D/s BDSM lifestyle deepened and I began living it, I too expected people in the lifestyle to adhere to the precepts of honesty and communication.  Sadly but realistically, I found that people are just that...people.  Sadly, there are many who are honest and upfront as long as it "works" for them at that time but whose honesty changes as circumstances and situations arise that are more difficult.  I am not saying that these things cannot happen or that you can work your way around every situation...but I do find it more satisfying to deal with people who mean what they say not only when they say it but later, when things are at a crossroads.




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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 8:08:26 AM   
Soquili


Posts: 21
Joined: 5/11/2006
From: michigan
Status: offline 		I am honest about everything, -if- I answer a question, I tell the truth as I know it. This does not mean I will answer any question put to me by anyone, however. I possibly failed to get my meaning across properly. I prefer for folks to give me an honest answer or tell me they choose not to give any answer rather than lie. Sadly, as many have said, people are people and people lie,cheat,steal,etc. All one can do is judge for him/herself whether something is truth or lie and act accordingly. All this supposes a serious conversation, and not the sarcastic jokey talks I tend to have with some people at parties. ;)

_____________________________

Just an old farmboy hillbilly

Still learning after all these years.

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 8:17:58 AM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Are you misleading someone because you didn’t give full disclosure? I think not.


I completely agree with you.


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Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 12:19:06 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I have something to add here that might seem like I am "going off on a tangent", but it is related. Re: "The truth" -

I take for granted there are some things people probably really need to find out about eachother up front that might otherwise make the chasm between them "too wide to bridge" if they weren't (I appreciated slavejali's comment. Things like: Do you have-want kids, are you married (if it's monogamy or poly one is seeking, etc.)

**But -  After some kind of relationship has been forged, is a sub-slave allowed to voice her(or his) "version" of what constitutes "the truth"?

I am really eventually hoping for a relationship w/someone where each person appreciates a good stimulating conversation. I like discussing things, and am not sure exactly just what my views are on certain things, and others I think I have definite views about. 

I really do see myself as primarily a slave (not a sub) in terms of "inclinations". I want to be (eventually) in a situation where I can focus almost solely on the needs and desires of the other person before my own. I want to give them what they want.

I am also hoping I can still have stimulating conversations w/the other person - even if we don't see things the same way as far as our views on different topics all the time. I guess I am hoping I will still have a voice - a chance- to have thoughts about things. I don't want to have to completely "disappear" and fade into nothingness...is this totally incongruous with the idea of being a slave - or does it just depend, maybe, on the people involved? 


Good question.  I have dealt primarily with submissive women with little involvement with slaves.  Personally, I think having one's own viewpoint of matters in the world is one of those things that we are allowed to have as humans with the whole "Master/slave-submissive" aspect set aside.  While I agree that it is perfectly normal for a submissive/slave to internalize the dominant's wants/needs/desires/views, that does not mean that when it comes to matters outside...and occasionally inside...the relationship, that you have to be "mini-me".  e.g.:  If I believe that it is important that my submissive be able to see certain activities as those reserved for people that she (and I) consider to be special, and I have given her what I believe to be sound reasoning behind that thought process of mine and backed it up, then I expect her to internalize that, even if she disagrees with the concept.  If I believe that any war this country engages in is right and she decides the rightness/wrongness of each war according to its merits and her own reasoning, that is her choice. 
In either case, she is a human with her own thoughts and feelings.  In the first case, yes, I expect a certain behavior, disagreement or not.  In the second case, the only thing I expect is respect as we argue over the merits, or lack thereof, of the current war.  In both cases, regardless of disagreement, the honesty comes in when she expresses what she truly feels.

quote:

This could never be a "threat" to me if I  was with someone who felt differently about some topics than I do - of course it's nice when two people have a "lot in common" I spose - but I also think that people's differences can make them pretty darned interesting. I guess I am maybe feeling scared I won't be able to think about things anymore at all. Thinking about things is one of my secret joys in life. I really don't want to have to give it up. I am referring to garden variety conversation topics - not "deal breaker" differences between people that maybe should prevent a relationship to begin with.

Do people have to see "eye-to-eye" every minute of every day on every topic to "prove" they care about the other person? I think that it might be just how they relate their "differences" to eachother that is going to either make or break a relationship. I am a big fan of diplomacy in inter-personal relationships - and want someone whose opinions I find interesting and fascinating and whom I can respect - but if we aren't cookie-cutter replicas of eachother all the time, every minute of the day in terms of what we think about or even how we think gueess I am hoping that wouldn't be an earth-shattering thing to the other person.


Personally, I think cookies that all look and taste the same are pretty boring after the second one.

quote:

I guess I'd want someone (eventually) I have a whole lot in common with - but if they aren't at least a little bit different than I am what will there be even left for me to learn? What could they ever teach me?


Exactly.  Teaching someone how you expect them to behave and teaching them how to internalize your thoughts, feelings, desires, needs, does not take away their own thoughts, feelings, desires, needs...and I want to know what they are.   

quote:

And since Doms and Masters, I am hoping, can also learn things from subs and slaves (on occasion), I am hoping voicing an opinion is okay with them too. I think maybe I am being "vague" here - but I've been on this planet for 46 years now and have concluded (so far) that there isn't anyone who has a be-all, end-all handle on "the truth" - about much of anything.


Right....welllllllllll...except for me.

quote:

 It doesn't mean I've lost faith in humanity - but I think "the truth" is pretty relative much of the time. And I am also desperately hoping that this statement is Not mis-interpeted as me being a potential "brat" because I am truly as far from that kind of person I'd think it is possible to be (I realize that presumption is all in the "eye of the beholder" but I still think that it's true). I absolutely hate "fighting."

Seeing something from another's point of view is what I think can sometimes make life interesting. If two people have different viewpoints to begin with, in order to do that I guess they'd have to be interested in seeing things from the other person's veiwpoint. Maybe what I am saying here is that I am hoping all respect for another person as a thinking human being doesn't get flushed down the toilet just because one has decided they are a slave (or even a sub). I just hate it when people fight - I just absolutely hate it. But I don't want to completely 100% 'disappear' altogether. 

I guess (once again), this may just mean people really have to try to get to know eachother and any relationship is a risk, etc. - Susan


You called it, Susan...any relationship is a risk.  But personally, I will take the risk that comes with honesty and dealing with problems when they are small than having someone disagree with me constantly, yet keeping it in until they cannot any longer or having someone whose honesty is constant as long as things remain the same but whose honesty and truth and dedication fall apart the minute things change for them. 

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 1:56:17 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

Assuming truth is “The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” (to use a rather trite statement), when exactly does one tell the truth?


always because the truth cant out run time.

The truth will always be known.. just depending on how much time it takes for it to catch up. 

Making it completely illogical to lie ever.  No matter where you try or how you try it.  The truth always comes out, one way or the other.  Even if its 5 years down the line.. it still comes. 

the truth can not out run time

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 2:10:07 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Does it begin with the first Email/IM?

Yes
quote:

Does it begin with the first phone call? 

Yes
quote:

Does it begin with the first meeting?  

Yes
I see no reason  not too tell the truth to anyone. If a question is asked I am not comfortable in answering then I say that which is the truth.
If you always tell the Truth then you never have to try and remember what you've said. Much easier.

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 2:33:05 PM   
jezabelKH


Posts: 663
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: METOO

Assuming truth is “The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” (to use a rather trite statement), when exactly does one tell the truth?

Lifestyle/BDSM lifestyle has an original premise of honesty and, correspondingly, the trustworthiness that is it’s resultant. To profess to such a lifestyle one must swear by this premise.

The question, therefore, is when does it begin when either initiating or relating to communication? Does it begin with the first Email/IM? The second? The third? Does it begin with the first phone call? The second? The Third? Does it begin with the first meeting? The second? The Third? When is the “other”, if there is one, given the truth? Is the truth twofold for both the new acquaintance as well as the “old” one?
I think you see where I’m going with this. Discussion?


just be brutally honest, truthfull and who you are all the time and if it does not scare them off or run them away then go from there. i must admit i am known for being too brutally honest, frank and open......but truthfull.

jezabelKH

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 3:04:19 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		I don't necessarily volunteer a great deal of information up front, but I do encourage questions, and if a question is asked, the answer will always be completely forthright.

ZWD

quote:

ORIGINAL: METOO

Assuming truth is “The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” (to use a rather trite statement), when exactly does one tell the truth?

Lifestyle/BDSM lifestyle has an original premise of honesty and, correspondingly, the trustworthiness that is it’s resultant. To profess to such a lifestyle one must swear by this premise.

The question, therefore, is when does it begin when either initiating or relating to communication? Does it begin with the first Email/IM? The second? The third? Does it begin with the first phone call? The second? The Third? Does it begin with the first meeting? The second? The Third? When is the “other”, if there is one, given the truth? Is the truth twofold for both the new acquaintance as well as the “old” one?
I think you see where I’m going with this. Discussion?


_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 7:34:18 PM   
ladyseekinglord


Posts: 105
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline 		I tell the truth from the very beginning, otherwise I'm just wasting my time.  I am looking for something honest and real, so if I can't be myself, whats the point?

On the other hand, "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" might be a little extreme.  I do not to tell someone I just began talking to every little thing about me and my past.  These things will come in time.  However, if there is something important that I feel I need to share, I do so and if I am asked a direct question, I answer it honestly.  But what do i know.  

lady


_____________________________

"Hold the heart of a slave girl and she will walk through fire for you... but if you cherish it she will dance in the flames."

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 7:41:34 PM   
TxBlkMistress


Posts: 337
Joined: 8/21/2004
Status: offline 		I so totally agree Ladyseeinglord.  Funny this subject just rolled by when a guy just now tried to scam me.   And I gave him every opportunity to tell me the truth about his little "comments"....but only when I answered his question, politely, but not the answer he wanted, did he start to take offense and yell and tell me I misread what he wrote.   They so hate it when you don't believe their lies....

I agree, what's the point in lying if you  are honestly seeking?  Plan on keeping up the lie for eternity...or do they think they are so "wonderful" that once caught you will forgive them and be with them anyway.   Been there, done that...all it got me were more lies....LOL

_____________________________

Being Domme it is a way of life for me, not a kink, but it's not the only thing that defines me. Get to know me as person, you might like what you find.

(in reply to ladyseekinglord)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 7:55:20 PM   
ladyseekinglord


Posts: 105
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

There is no such thing as truth, truth a matter of perception. If you want someone to tell you the truth according to what truth is to you, you need to make sure that person has the same perception of reality as you. An impossibility because they are not you.



Wow, that sounds like a bunch of BS. 

Yes, we all have our own truths and perceptions, and there are subtleties, but its not nearly as subjective as you imply.  There are some things that just hold truth or they don't.  You are either married, or you're not.  You either have a job, or you don't.  You either have kids, or you don't.  You're either looking for a real time relationship, or you're not.

lady




_____________________________

"Hold the heart of a slave girl and she will walk through fire for you... but if you cherish it she will dance in the flames."

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 8:18:43 PM   
ladylexington


Posts: 117
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline 		I believe that there a four kinds of personal truth...

1) The things we know and share about ourselves.
2) The things we know and choose not to share.
3) The things we don't know about ourselves that most people know about us.
4) The things we have yet to learn about ourselves that no one else knows either.

In this sense, the truth is relative and often shifts. Intent is the defining difference for me. If someone intends to decieve me, then I've been disrespected -- and am appropriately pissed off.

_____________________________

If you must gamble your lives sexually, don't play a lone hand too much. -- Mark Twain

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RE: Truth!?! Truth!?! - 5/24/2006 8:38:05 PM   
ladyseekinglord


Posts: 105
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gunship

quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce


In my life, there is no room for lies and deception.  I am exactly the same person in the real world that people see online.  That's my real face in that photograph, and I really am 47 years old and overweight.  I see no constructive purpose in trying to hide anything about who and what I am, and I expect nothing less from those who wish to correspond or get acquainted with me.  I am, by nature, highly suspicious and distrustful of strangers and, if I learn someone has lied to me, it's going to be damned near impossible for that person to ever gain, or regain, my trust.
 
Be true to yourself; be straight with me; and we'll get along just fine.

Hello Evanesce,
I agree with your statement with my whole heart. I could not have said it better myself.
Suzanne
I guess then I must say to you in this frame Suzanne
that we must end our relationship. I wont be able to gain your trust
again so there is not a reason to be in the same abode under the conditions we both have endured since 3/15. I am sadened that I cant regain your trust, I know in myself that you can regain my trust, but its one sided.............oh well I will move forward with
the knowlege of being brutally honest will serve me well from this day forward.
Rick


Is it just me, or is there something seriously wrong with airing your dirty laundry and, worse still, breaking up in a public forum?




_____________________________

"Hold the heart of a slave girl and she will walk through fire for you... but if you cherish it she will dance in the flames."

(in reply to gunship)
Profile   Post #: 80
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