quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: METOO

Assuming truth is “The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” (to use a rather trite statement), when exactly does one tell the truth?

Lifestyle/BDSM lifestyle has an original premise of honesty and, correspondingly, the trustworthiness that is it’s resultant. To profess to such a lifestyle one must swear by this premise.

The question, therefore, is when does it begin when either initiating or relating to communication? Does it begin with the first Email/IM? The second? The third? Does it begin with the first phone call? The second? The Third? Does it begin with the first meeting? The second? The Third? When is the “other”, if there is one, given the truth? Is the truth twofold for both the new acquaintance as well as the “old” one?
I think you see where I’m going with this. Discussion?

There is no such thing as truth, truth a matter of perception. If you want someone to tell you the truth according to what truth is to you, you need to make sure that person has the same perception of reality as you. An impossibility because they are not you.

As for honesty and trustworthiness in the lifestyle, I have to admit I have yet to notice it or at least notice it is more prevelent in the lifestyle than anywhere else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
There is no such thing as truth, truth a matter of perception.

quote:

I echo that .....I haven't seen ANY more *honesty and truth* in this than in any other area of life......... for the very reasons you mentioned.
The only difference I've found , is that people pontificate about it a lot more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I echo that .....I haven't seen ANY more *honesty and truth* in this than in any other area of life......... for the very reasons you mentioned.

The only difference I've found , is that people pontificate about it a lot more.

agirl

adited, spelling mistake

edited again because I mistyped *edited*......LOL  (Crikey, I really AM anal.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladyseekinglord

quote:

Suzanne

Hello Evanesce,
I agree with your statement with my whole heart. I could not have said it better myself.
Suzanne

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I echo that .....I haven't seen ANY more *honesty and truth* in this than in any other area of life......... for the very reasons you mentioned.

The only difference I've found , is that people pontificate about it a lot more.

agirl

adited, spelling mistake

edited again because I mistyped *edited*......LOL  (Crikey, I really AM anal.)

Gotta love someone whose anal...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I have something to add here that might seem like I am "going off on a tangent", but it is related. Re: "The truth" -

I take for granted there are some things people probably really need to find out about eachother up front that might otherwise make the chasm between them "too wide to bridge" if they weren't (I appreciated slavejali's comment. Things like: Do you have-want kids, are you married (if it's monogamy or poly one is seeking, etc.)

**But -  After some kind of relationship has been forged, is a sub-slave allowed to voice her(or his) "version" of what constitutes "the truth"?

I'm wondering if you might mean your own thoughts, opinions and ideas here.

I am really eventually hoping for a relationship w/someone where each person appreciates a good stimulating conversation. I like discussing things, and am not sure exactly just what my views are on certain things, and others I think I have definite views about. 

I really do see myself as primarily a slave (not a sub) in terms of "inclinations". I want to be (eventually) in a situation where I can focus almost solely on the needs and desires of the other person before my own. I want to give them what they want.

I am a slave and I am a thinking, functioning human being who couldn't possibly reach that saintly state. I sometimes think that the IDEA of focussing(sp) ENTIRELY on the needs and desires of someone else is probably a whole lot easier in the idea stage....lol


I am also hoping I can still have stimulating conversations w/the other person - even if we don't see things the same way as far as our views on different topics all the time. I guess I am hoping I will still have a voice - a chance- to have thoughts about things. I don't want to have to completely "disappear" and fade into nothingness...is this totally incongruous with the idea of being a slave - or does it just depend, maybe, on the people involved?

Being a slave doesn't mean, in any way, that you become an unthinking, plodding riding school pony..If you're a racehorse, choose a Master who knows how to handle a racehorse. It depends VERY much on the person you choose.

It would never be a "threat" to me if I  was with someone who felt differently about some topics than I do - of course it's nice when two people have a "lot in common" I spose - but I also think that people's differences can make them pretty darned interesting. I guess I am maybe feeling scared I won't be able to think about things anymore at all. Thinking about things is one of my secret joys in life. I really don't want to have to give it up.

If you choose a Master that wants you to become an automaton, you obviously wouldn't flourish or feel happy. You have the choice as to who you're a slave to. I'm wondering why you feel worried that you'd have to stop thinking and if , maybe, you have a personal inner*blueprint* of what being enslaved might mean.

I am referring to garden variety conversation topics - not "deal breaker" differences between people that maybe should prevent a relationship to begin with.

Do people have to see "eye-to-eye" every minute of every day on every topic to "prove" they care about the other person? I think that it might be just how they relate their "differences" to eachother that is going to either make or break a relationship. I am a big fan of diplomacy in inter-personal relationships - and want someone whose opinions I find interesting and fascinating and whom I can respect -

....and someone who respects YOU, YOUR opinions, thoughts and ideas?

but if we aren't cookie-cutter replicas of eachother all the time, every minute of the day in terms of what we think about or even how we think gueess I am hoping that wouldn't be an earth-shattering thing to the other person.

I guess I'd want someone (eventually) I have a whole lot in common with - but if they aren't at least a little bit different than I am what will there be even left for me to learn? What could they ever teach me?

And since Doms and Masters, I am hoping, can also learn things from subs and slaves (on occasion), I am hoping voicing an opinion is okay with them too.

In lots of relationships, people learn from people, regardless of M/s D/s, child/adult etc. Just because a relationship is M/s it doesn't make you any less worthy of voicing an opinion. Discussing things is fun.


 I think maybe I am being "vague" here - but I've been on this planet for 46 years now and have concluded (so far) that there isn't anyone who has a be-all, end-all handle on "the truth" - about much of anything. It doesn't mean I've lost faith in humanity - but I think "the truth" is pretty relative much of the time. And I am also desperately hoping that this statement is Not mis-interpeted as me being a potential "brat" because I am truly as far from that kind of person I'd think it is possible to be (I realize that presumption is all in the "eye of the beholder" but I still think that it's true). I absolutely hate "fighting."

Seeing something from another's point of view is what I think can sometimes make life interesting. If two people have different viewpoints to begin with, in order to do that I guess they'd have to be interested in seeing things from the other person's veiwpoint. Maybe what I am saying here is that I am hoping all respect for another person as a thinking human being doesn't get flushed down the toilet just because one has decided they are a slave (or even a sub). I just hate it when people fight - I just absolutely hate it. But I don't want to completely 100% 'disappear' altogether.

YOU choose who you're a slave to, you don't get snatched from the street and forced to be with someone. If you find yourself in a situation where you are unhappy and feel as if you are losing yourself and your identity, then you're most likely with the wrong Master, for you.

A thinking Master won't be content with a dull, unthinking slave/sub for very long...and the reverse and if respect goes in any relationship, it will flounder.

When you decide to be a slave to someone, it's wise to choose someone you can be a slave TO. There is no need to worry too much about what *form* your slavery will or won't take before you are in a relationship because it will be entirely shaped by the man you have chosen to to be with and the resulting relationship. Making a good choice beforehand will make most of your niggling worries disappear. ( if that's what they are , trying not to assume here...lol)

 I guess (once again), this may just mean people really have to try to get to know eachother and any relationship is a risk, etc. - Susan