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RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 5:22:00 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

well you see since its a very real solution and frankly to itemize it could put me in a position of being construed as an enemy of the state so I am not really comfortable going beyond pointing out how the whole thing was created.  However I think if you stare at it all for a while and ponder it the answers will be readily apparent.  That and telling you does no good, its something you have to know by your own devices.  Until then its not a workable solution anyway.  That would be like a multi part equation and giving someone the answer to one part they tell the teacher and the teacher asks them for part 2 and they are speechless.

take note btw that all the solutions people here will give you will be under the democracy or the corporate veil and an inferior position in law.


Okay.  Thanks! 

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 5:25:01 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Here is mine, Treasure. Actually two.

First, since someone already opened up the welfare issue. My solution is limiting the number of children to those an applicant enrolls with... no more. Next, requiring an education for every adult on the welfare dime, no exceptions.


I agree with limiting the number of children that an applicant can enroll with.  I'm not so sure of the education part... is that to enhance marketability or qualifications in the work force? 



Exactly. Not only that, but achieving such promotes a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction that can only benefit the adults and the children alike.

quote:



Personally, I'd require able-bodied welfare recipients to earn their welfare with service of some type.



I have no issue with this at all. Most people on welfare can obtain an almost free college education. Giving back to the community would be a great way to repay some of that.

quote:




I'm also not opposed to criminals having to earn their keep inside prison, either.  But it shouldn't be set up where it can become considered slave labor for the benefit of society.  The fruits of their labor should be of direct benefit only to the institution where they are incarcerated.



But giving the fruits to the victims would settle better with me.

quote:




quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Second.... am i the only one tired of hearing about the tax situation? I would love to see some cities used as examples. Take a few, cut taxes, then watch the fall out as their benefits across the board are reduced dramatically.


I get tired of hearing about the taxes, too.  I wouldn't mind seeing the same examples, but I'd be rooting for their success.  I'm a big believer in humankind's ability to survive whatever is necessary.




_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 5:36:40 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I'm also not opposed to criminals having to earn their keep inside prison, either.  But it shouldn't be set up where it can become considered slave labor for the benefit of society.  The fruits of their labor should be of direct benefit only to the institution where they are incarcerated.


But giving the fruits to the victims would settle better with me.


That's true for me, too, but for that to happen I see that it might require their labor to produce money... which could lead to a corruption in the system.  Anything produced inside a prison with "captive" labor might then also compete unfairly with outside commercial interests.

I was thinking more along the lines of having to grow their own food, tend their own livestock, make their own clothing and shoes, etc.  Essentially help making the prison system into their own self-sustaining facility.

Edited to add:

I started to suggest that maybe a system where money earned (in excess of what is needed to cover the costs of imprisoning) from products sold to the outside world might be pooled into a fund to be used to compensate victims. 

Unfortunately, I realized that again this is where corruption might be encouraged.  Who is to say what is precisely needed to cover the costs?  Would a prison warden start to believe that proceeds first need to provide him a more comfortable office, before any excess went into the victim fund?  A bigger library or gym for the prisoners?  Better food?

If the work prisoners do provides only for their own needs, there doesn't seem to be the same temptation.


< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 5/30/2010 5:42:45 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 5:41:04 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Treasure, I'm not big on "compassion" either.
Funny all the "idealists" who want to build housing and hospitals in foreign countries because they're,......."poor."
Then they'll drive by a bunch of people living under a bridge here and call them a bunch of winos.
Sorry but I just *don't care* what happens to people in foreign countries. They need to do their own "caring" for their own people not me and not my money.
Trust fund kids going "abroad."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/30/2010 5:55:16 PM >

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 6:01:21 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Treasure, I'm not big on "compassion" either.
Funny all the "idealists" who want to build housing and hospitals in foreign countries because they're,......."poor."
Then they'll drive by a bunch of people living under a bridge here and call them a bunch of winos.
Sorry but I just *don't care* what happens to people in foreign countries. They need to do their own "caring" for their own people not me and not my money.


Don't get me wrong, Popeye... I do have a lot of compassion.  I do care what happens to people, no matter where they live.

However, I don't take complete responsibility.

I'm a firm believer in people being responsible for themselves.  I'm also a believer in people taking responsibility for helping those who have difficulty in being responsible for themselves, but only up to a point.

If you are too young, too old, or otherwise mentally or physically unable to care for yourself, I'll be there to help make sure you have a roof over your head and food to eat.

I don't, however, see it as my responsibility to ensure you have those necessities of life if you cannot provide them for yourself because you instead choose to incapacitate yourself with drugs or alcohol... or because you simply choose not to make the right decisions, sacrifices, or effort.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 6:08:23 PM   
Silence8


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Treasure this is a fantastic thread!



It's not so great.

I guess I could sign onto term limits. Politician pay isn't that relevant, though.

I'd be interested in direct democracy, where people vote over the internet, just like the wealthy elite do (it's called the stock market).

(in reply to Louve00)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 6:14:47 PM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
Joined: 11/2/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Here is mine, Treasure. Actually two.

First, since someone already opened up the welfare issue. My solution is limiting the number of children to those an applicant enrolls with... no more. Next, requiring an education for every adult on the welfare dime, no exceptions.

Second.... am i the only one tired of hearing about the tax situation? I would love to see some cities used as examples. Take a few, cut taxes, then watch the fall out as their benefits across the board are reduced dramatically.


bleh.

Prosecute corporate criminals, get Birkenfeld out of jail, scale down prison industry, let teachers teach with independence, more college loans, END EVERY SINGLE WAR...

And you're talking about wealthfare mooches. Honestly.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 6:16:31 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		How about, for once, responding to the OP instead of critizing others.

ETA

Welfare has become a way of life for many. I will advocate anything that can help to change that way of life and give those who have allowed it to become their lives a chance for a better future for themselves and their children.



< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 5/30/2010 6:18:20 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 6:18:44 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8


quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Treasure this is a fantastic thread!



It's not so great.


lol... That's okay.  You could always suggest a solution to the lame thread problem. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

I guess I could sign onto term limits. Politician pay isn't that relevant, though.


I'm not opposed to a legislator making a decent living for the time he's doing a job, but it should be equivalent to the average salary of where he lives.  Where he lives should be where his constituents are.

I am opposed to him having any say in raises and benefits, and I certainly don't like the idea that he can walk away after five years and receive any kind of continuing pay.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

I'd be interested in direct democracy, where people vote over the internet, just like the wealthy elite do (it's called the stock market).


Voting over the internet wouldn't be a bad idea if there were a way to ensure the integrity of the results, and the privacy of the voters.

Edited to correct the pension requirement.  Congressmen are vested in their retirement only after five years of service... not after a single term.


< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 5/30/2010 6:22:29 PM >

(in reply to Silence8)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 6:24:01 PM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
Joined: 11/2/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How about, for once, responding to the OP instead of critizing others.

ETA

Welfare has become a way of life for many. I will advocate anything that can help to change that way of life and give those who have allowed it to become their lives a chance for a better future for themselves and their children.



My impression was always that the welfare argument is a good way to make people hate other people, and to obscure the issue of elite exploitation (i.e., people worth hating).

How much does the whole welfare program cost? Somehow, I don't imagine it adds up 700 billion (you know the figure I'm quoting...)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 6:26:06 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

My impression was always that the welfare argument is a good way to make people hate other people, and to obscure the issue of elite exploitation (i.e., people worth hating).

How much does the whole welfare program cost? Somehow, I don't imagine it adds up 700 billion (you know the figure I'm quoting...)


Are you going to offer a solution to this?

(in reply to Silence8)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 6:33:00 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		My solution.

Absolutely outlaw any politician or staff member from ever being a lobbyist and visa-versa.Same with the military.You either soldier or lobby but not both,ever.

No two,three or four year waiting periods,no revolving doors and no exceptions.

You either do one or the other but not both.

Yeah I know,real sexy.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 6:36:02 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

My solution.

Absolutely outlaw any politician or staff member from ever being a lobbyist and visa-versa.Same with the military.You either soldier or lobby but not both,ever.

No two,three or four year waiting periods,no revolving doors and no exceptions.

You either do one or the other but not both.


No argument there, but why even allow lobbying from anyone other than a constituent?

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 6:38:55 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How about, for once, responding to the OP instead of critizing others.

ETA

Welfare has become a way of life for many. I will advocate anything that can help to change that way of life and give those who have allowed it to become their lives a chance for a better future for themselves and their children.



My impression was always that the welfare argument is a good way to make people hate other people, and to obscure the issue of elite exploitation (i.e., people worth hating).

How much does the whole welfare program cost? Somehow, I don't imagine it adds up 700 billion (you know the figure I'm quoting...)


Considering i gained my nursing degree while on AFDC. Considering i helped many women do the same thing, showing them the rules and where to go for help.

I dont see it as a reason to hate someone else. What i hate about it is the system that does not promote education as vigoursly as it should. That it does not insist on that education. That it does nothing to assist people wanting an education. People have been told that if the get welfare, then get a pell grant, their welfare check would be reduced or they will be tossed off the welfare roll. And this information was given by a Case Worker.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Silence8)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 6:41:39 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Corporations for better or worse are also constituents and deserve to be heard.

The trick in IMO is level the field so the rich and connected don`t get unfair advantages over say consumer,taxpayer or environmental advocates.


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 7:01:11 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		"fewer" thugs, not less thugs...

Now, on term limits....if you set them too short you have endless churn in the government and are constantly having to deal with "learning curves" on the complicated positions.  As a matter of fact, some states were looking into repealing term limits due to that effect.

On the welfare side...I still here talk of lifelong multi-generation welfare recipients except that was done away with in the '90s.

There's an innovative program somewhere (I'm thinking this was in the New York Times Sunday Magazine but can't find the article to save my ass) that takes parents and trains them in parenting skills, educates them so they can help with homework, and other things that continue until the child graduates from high school.  What's interesting about the program is that the emphasis is to raise the next generation's income and possibilities - any improvement to the parents' life is considered fallout.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 7:01:57 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

First, since someone already opened up the welfare issue. My solution is limiting the number of children to those an applicant enrolls with... no more. Next, requiring an education for every adult on the welfare dime, no exceptions.


quote:

I agree with limiting the number of children that an applicant can enroll with.  I'm not so sure of the education part... is that to enhance marketability or qualifications in the work force? 



So neither of you obviously know much about welfare. Those limits already exist in most states. Women who get pregnant on welfare do NOT get an increase in benefits.

Welfare recipients are also required to participate in programs to prepare them for a job as well as "working" within non-profit (typically government) offices to help them learn about being in a work environment.

quote:


Exactly. Not only that, but achieving such promotes a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction that can only benefit the adults and the children alike.



quote:


Personally, I'd require able-bodied welfare recipients to earn their welfare with service of some type.



quote:


I have no issue with this at all. Most people on welfare can obtain an almost free college education. Giving back to the community would be a great way to repay some of that.



Actually people on welfare and people on unemployment have the same opportunity for college education and it isn't "free." The are entitled to a limited grant in limited programs for "demand" occupations. Those grants are applied to the tuition, and do not include books, which as any college student will tell you, are a big expense.

The true myth is that the majority of people who are receiving welfare want to live on the government dole. The amount of money someone receives on welfare is not a lot of money. A single mother with one child will get less than 400 dollars a month, 60% of which is put towards housing costs. There is a waiting list for child care assistance in most cases. If someone on welfare finds a minimum wage job, they no longer qualify for any assistance, including food stamps. They will still receive child care assistance, but their cash benefits, food stamps and most importantly, medical benefits will be stopped.

The amount that someone receives in cash assistance has not changed in more than 20 years. That's right, unchanged. No increase based on inflation or cost of living in this country. Someone in Wyoming will get the same amount as someone in NY. Obviously, that amount will go much further in Wyoming than in NY.

So while your uninformed suggestion of solution simply states things that already exists, it really does nothing more than promote current ignorance. This is not to say that there are those who abuse the system. They abuse it by receiving Section 8 housing long after they would be entitled to receive it. They abuse it by having someone live with them and assist in the household income. I went to college with a young woman who received welfare assistance. Her son also had a portable DVD player (this was quite a few years ago when those gadgets were new and much more expensive). She had plenty of gold jewlery, as well as nice clothes and obvious frequent visits to the salon for her hair and nails. Do I think something should be done about that? Of course.

So what WOULD be the solution to that? Starting with raising the minimum wage. It is still less than $8.00 per hour. Very few places where one person can support a family on that. Change the qualifications so that people can work and afford a roof over their heads. Certainly, an education and a job gives everyone a sense of satisfaction, but when you know accepting a part time job (because it is all you can get) will give you 800 dollars a month and your expenses are 1200, and you won't get any help if you take that job, it makes it very difficult to try to move forward.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 7:03:49 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		We have term limits now.

It`s called election day.

Just say`n.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 7:10:17 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Corporations for better or worse are also constituents and deserve to be heard.

The trick in IMO is level the field so the rich and connected don`t get unfair advantages over say consumer,taxpayer or environmental advocates.




just to have some fun....

what about osama bin laden and pals inc.

a bunch of foreigners with a corporation incorporated in deleware?


Then what about joblow.  filthy rich.  major shareholder for 35 corporations.

he is heard first in his own person, joblow
then 35 more times in the name of each of his corporations.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 7:26:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Allowance benefits vary in what is paid out to individuals or families for any of the welfare programs. As each state regulates their own SRS programs, payment allowances will vary from state to state based on geography, cost of living and employment/educational opportunities within that state.

However, a basic average guideline for the food stamp program will show that an average family of 4 can expect an amount up to $500 per month for food stamps. This figure will greatly vary based on the age of the family members and medical needs. A single person household will show an expected average of up to $200 per month. Again, these figures are averages and not state specific.

Cash allowance benefits for financial assistance will also be state regulated and allowances paid will also vary based on different criteria. However, an average expectation can be placed on a family of 4 receiving up to $900 for their TANF allowance. A single person household can expect an average of up to $300.

These allowance benefits would be separate from any additional welfare benefits received such as child care, medical or utility assistance.

Even as you look at these welfare amounts, it is not surprising that the current allowance benefits seldom if ever make ends meet for the recipient. The institutionalized program was set up to be an offset measure for those in need, not a complete replacement of income and benefits. The downside to this is that as the economy continues to take a nosedive, so does the available means for those living with minimal income. A family of 4 cannot live on $900 a month. Additionally, criminal activities meant to defraud the SRS program greatly limit the available funds for those who truly need and make the regulations stricter, in some cases too strict, eliminating the benefits for those who truly need it.

http://www.welfareinfo.org/payments/

I went looking based upon your assertion that those in NY get just as much as any other place in the US.

And the following web site.. from PA welfare.. shows ways of asking for a TANF time out.

http://www.dpw.state.pa.us/ServicesPrograms/CashAsstEmployment/003676613.htm

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 5/30/2010 7:27:11 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 40
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