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RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 7:42:14 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

"fewer" thugs, not less thugs...


lol... Okay.  Need to find a solution to bad grammar.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Now, on term limits....if you set them too short you have endless churn in the government and are constantly having to deal with "learning curves" on the complicated positions.  As a matter of fact, some states were looking into repealing term limits due to that effect.


I can see that in our current complicated and convoluted system.

I'd like to see the system simplified.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

On the welfare side...I still here talk of lifelong multi-generation welfare recipients except that was done away with in the '90s.


I'm not thinking of lifelong recipients, but ones that use it for anything more than a temporary hand up.  It should be like unemployment insurance... just a helping hand for a short term while you get back on your feet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

There's an innovative program somewhere (I'm thinking this was in the New York Times Sunday Magazine but can't find the article to save my ass) that takes parents and trains them in parenting skills, educates them so they can help with homework, and other things that continue until the child graduates from high school.  What's interesting about the program is that the emphasis is to raise the next generation's income and possibilities - any improvement to the parents' life is considered fallout.


I've never liked programs such as that.  It seems to me that they assume that just because someone needs help financially, that they are somehow deficient in parenting skills.  Poor does not equate to stupid or inept.  Or at least it shouldn't. 

As I said, I'm not against welfare as a short term helping hand.  Shit happens to good people sometimes. 

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 7:43:00 PM   
Silence8


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

So what WOULD be the solution to that? Starting with raising the minimum wage. It is still less than $8.00 per hour. Very few places where one person can support a family on that. Change the qualifications so that people can work and afford a roof over their heads. Certainly, an education and a job gives everyone a sense of satisfaction, but when you know accepting a part time job (because it is all you can get) will give you 800 dollars a month and your expenses are 1200, and you won't get any help if you take that job, it makes it very difficult to try to move forward.





This is a very, very good idea.


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 7:55:07 PM   
Louve00


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Corporations for better or worse are also constituents and deserve to be heard.

The trick in IMO is level the field so the rich and connected don`t get unfair advantages over say consumer,taxpayer or environmental advocates.



To level the field from these people? *grin*  As soon as I read this it reminded me of a skit George Carlin did.  I just had to run to You Tube to look it up. (he also mentions the lobbyists here so it hit the jackpot!) lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q&NR=1

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RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 7:58:41 PM   
Silence8


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Corporations for better or worse are also constituents and deserve to be heard.

The trick in IMO is level the field so the rich and connected don`t get unfair advantages over say consumer,taxpayer or environmental advocates.



To level the field from these people? *grin*  As soon as I read this it reminded me of a skit George Carlin did.  I just had to run to You Tube to look it up. (he also mentions the lobbyists here so it hit the jackpot!) lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q&NR=1


I was also thinking of posting this.

(in reply to Louve00)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:08:06 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Corporations for better or worse are also constituents and deserve to be heard.

The trick in IMO is level the field so the rich and connected don`t get unfair advantages over say consumer,taxpayer or environmental advocates.



To level the field from these people? *grin*  As soon as I read this it reminded me of a skit George Carlin did.  I just had to run to You Tube to look it up. (he also mentions the lobbyists here so it hit the jackpot!) lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q&NR=1


I don't disagree that serious corruption exists, but if the corporations really "own" America, then why would they have to lobby?  Why would they have to do anything to get what they want? 

Hmmm.... maybe I'm doing something wrong.  Am I suppose to insist that Firm lobby for my support of what he wants?  Should he have to court me and convince me to do his bidding? 

But I do agree that most politicians don't care about anyone but themselves.  It's a career choice for them that gives them power and money.

And unfortunately, our system as it is currently supports that.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 5/30/2010 8:09:10 PM >

(in reply to Louve00)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:11:10 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

Welfare mothers - solution - welfare for the first kid (anyone can make a mistake)
half for the second one and manditory tubes tied.
Welfare fathers - vasectomy after the second kid sired.
SEIG!!!!

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(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:18:07 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

well you see since its a very real solution and frankly to itemize it could put me in a position of being construed as an enemy of the state so I am not really comfortable going beyond pointing out how the whole thing was created. However I think if you stare at it all for a while and ponder it the answers will be readily apparent. That and telling you does no good, its something you have to know by your own devices. Until then its not a workable solution anyway. That would be like a multi part equation and giving someone the answer to one part they tell the teacher and the teacher asks them for part 2 and they are speechless.
Best cop-out post ever

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:18:28 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Welfare mothers - solution - welfare for the first kid (anyone can make a mistake)
half for the second one and manditory tubes tied.
Welfare fathers - vasectomy after the second kid sired.
SEIG!!!!


I wouldn't go that far, Arpig.  Don't you think it is irresponsible for people who cannot manage to support themselves, to expect the public to assume financial responsibility for them while they continue to increase that level of responsibility at will?

I know it seems unfair, but it's kinda like my kids.  If they live under my roof being supported by me, then I get to make the decisions when it comes to the financial burdens they expect me to be responsible for.  They don't like it, then they go out and be responsible for themselves.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:20:33 PM   
Silence8


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Corporations for better or worse are also constituents and deserve to be heard.

The trick in IMO is level the field so the rich and connected don`t get unfair advantages over say consumer,taxpayer or environmental advocates.



How about the wealth gap shouldn't be allowed to exceed a certain number, decided on by the population?

Financial semi-equality makes for a better society, not to mention more creative business opportunities.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:21:40 PM   
Silence8


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Welfare mothers - solution - welfare for the first kid (anyone can make a mistake)
half for the second one and manditory tubes tied.
Welfare fathers - vasectomy after the second kid sired.
SEIG!!!!


I wouldn't go that far, Arpig.  Don't you think it is irresponsible for people who cannot manage to support themselves, to expect the public to assume financial responsibility for them while they continue to increase that level of responsibility at will?

I know it seems unfair, but it's kinda like my kids.  If they live under my roof being supported by me, then I get to make the decisions when it comes to the financial burdens they expect me to be responsible for.  They don't like it, then they go out and be responsible for themselves.




I think it's blaming the wrong people. The evil that 'slums people' are capable of committing is nothing compared with the financial elite.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:28:48 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

How about the wealth gap shouldn't be allowed to exceed a certain number, decided on by the population?

Financial semi-equality makes for a better society, not to mention more creative business opportunities.


And just who gets to decide when that threshold is reached?

"I'm sorry Ms. Scientist... you aren't allowed to market your invention because we've already reached our quota of wealthy people for now.  You can either give it away or wait until someone from the rich side of the divide either dies or financially tanks."

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:30:51 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Sorry, but the idea of government mandating surgical procedures sticks in my craw. The Nazis in fact did exactly this so I don't think it is  a far fetched comparisson...but on to the OP...I must make supper and then I will be back.



_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:30:51 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Welfare mothers - solution - welfare for the first kid (anyone can make a mistake)
half for the second one and manditory tubes tied.
Welfare fathers - vasectomy after the second kid sired.
SEIG!!!!


I wouldn't go that far, Arpig.  Don't you think it is irresponsible for people who cannot manage to support themselves, to expect the public to assume financial responsibility for them while they continue to increase that level of responsibility at will?

I know it seems unfair, but it's kinda like my kids.  If they live under my roof being supported by me, then I get to make the decisions when it comes to the financial burdens they expect me to be responsible for.  They don't like it, then they go out and be responsible for themselves.




I think it's blaming the wrong people. The evil that 'slums people' are capable of committing is nothing compared with the financial elite.


Blame?  What the heck are you talking about?  What does evil have to do with taking responsibility for yourself?

(in reply to Silence8)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:36:43 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

well you see since its a very real solution and frankly to itemize it could put me in a position of being construed as an enemy of the state so I am not really comfortable going beyond pointing out how the whole thing was created. However I think if you stare at it all for a while and ponder it the answers will be readily apparent. That and telling you does no good, its something you have to know by your own devices. Until then its not a workable solution anyway. That would be like a multi part equation and giving someone the answer to one part they tell the teacher and the teacher asks them for part 2 and they are speechless.
Best cop-out post ever


no...

remember term wrote a long treatise in response to one of my posts where he felt I was crossing that line.  There is a line here in america and I really do not need to paint any flourescent red targets on my ass.

That and even so called patriots have a very difficult time wrapping their minds around some of this stuff. 

Those who understand the stuff however have crossed airport checks with their guns and tasers and given special treatment.

Point being that real change as I believe treas is alluding too can only be made one person at a time until you have many people within the democracy because as a single person you cannot change the democracy, you can only change the democracy in numbers or by having a higher standing in law.

So you need lots of persons all doing the same thing to change the democracy as a whole, however you can change things in the democracy operating through the republic side through the courts, county and city and state etc. 

It gets pretty hairy and you have to be on your game or they will take you down.




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(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:37:02 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Sorry, but the idea of government mandating surgical procedures sticks in my craw. The Nazis in fact did exactly this so I don't think it is  a far fetched comparisson...but on to the OP...I must make supper and then I will be back.


I can understand that and I'm not advocating it to be the solution.  But I can see where it is frustrating when people refuse to be financially responsible for themselves and their progeny.

What would you do if your 12 year old daughter brought home a puppy but couldn't take care of it?  What if she continued to bring home puppies?  Would you tell her no more?

Essentially what I'm recommending is that if you don't want the government to dictate your life to you, then don't put your life in the government's hands.

Edited to add:

Supper?   lol... It's nearly midnight here and past my bedtime.  Enjoy your repast. 


< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 5/30/2010 8:48:57 PM >

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 8:54:45 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		OK…solutions…. I will tackle some of the issues that have been raised, then move on to some others……

  Welfare…first off anybody who thinks people go on welfare to live high on the hog have no idea what living on welfare is like. I have been on and off welfare mist of my adult life due to an inability to support myself due to an insidious mental illness that took decades to be diagnosed, so I am all for the system, as meager as it is, it is the only thing that has allowed me and my children to survive. Attempts to limit the number of children a poor person can have by mandated sterilization is completely unacceptable to me. What would I do, well easy…people on welfare should be required to either work a job of some description (as I do) or to take job training…period and child care should be provided to allow parents to do so. If a person is on welfare for a given period of time (I would suggest 2 years) then they should have to submit to a psychiatric evaluation to determine if they have a mental problem that would better be handled under disability rather than general welfare.

  Politicians…this one is also easy, 1) make it public SERVICE…make it pay in the region of $40,000 - $60,000 a year so the only people you get doing it are those who really want to do it. 2) Prohibit all contributions except those by individuals and limit to $1000 per person…period, no exceptions. 3) Outlaw lobbying…period. Prohibit political parties from raising funds…make it all up to the individual candidate.

Health care…even easier…institute a single payer public insurance plan that will cover everybody.

Gun crime…get rid of guns (Yeah I know that would require a constitutional amendment…but you can’t say it wouldn’t work).

Prison overpopulation…Like Peter Tosh said all those years ago…legalize it!

Illegal Immigration…I don’t think there is anything you guys can do to actually solve this problem, but I have to agree with Merc on this…employers who hire illegals should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

That’s all (for now at least) I have at the moment.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 9:07:03 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Corporations for better or worse are also constituents and deserve to be heard.

The trick in IMO is level the field so the rich and connected don`t get unfair advantages over say consumer,taxpayer or environmental advocates.


How about something like lobbying only being allowed at the State level?  A corporation can only lobby in the district where the corporate headquarters is located, and to only the State representative over that district.  If the issue is of importance to enough of the districts in a State, and the State feels that the issue is one that should be addressed at a Federal level, then that issue can be proposed to be included on an agenda for the Federal legislators.  Whether it becomes a part of the final agenda would depend on whether enough States agree.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 9:10:17 PM   
Silence8


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

How about the wealth gap shouldn't be allowed to exceed a certain number, decided on by the population?

Financial semi-equality makes for a better society, not to mention more creative business opportunities.


And just who gets to decide when that threshold is reached?

"I'm sorry Ms. Scientist... you aren't allowed to market your invention because we've already reached our quota of wealthy people for now.  You can either give it away or wait until someone from the rich side of the divide either dies or financially tanks."



The thing is that the predatory business-financial elite are much better off than those scientists (except when those scientists decide to work for the military, etc. etc.)

Financial motivation isn't the only or even the strongest human motivator. Fame and respect also work. The profit motive does not account for Albert Einstein (who was a socialist).


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 9:11:42 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

Corporations for better or worse are also constituents and deserve to be heard.
No, wrong, incorrect. The owners of the corporations are constituents and deserve to be heard, but the corporation is not and does not.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Solutions to Problems... - 5/30/2010 9:13:18 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

The thing is that the predatory business-financial elite are much better off than those scientists (except when those scientists decide to work for the military, etc. etc.)


So your solution is to take away any chance for the scientist who isn't already part of the financial elite? 

"Sorry... we're already at quota."

(in reply to Silence8)
Profile   Post #: 60
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