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What role has the Forer Effect played in contemporary BDSM?


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What role has the Forer Effect played in contemporary B... - 6/6/2010 6:57:01 PM   
Masculus


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The topic says it all... What says you?
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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/6/2010 6:58:49 PM   
Elisabella


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One's choice of self-identity determines more than their innate sexuality?

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/6/2010 7:13:19 PM   
Masculus


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No. In regards to the all inclusive idea.

S&M used to be exclusive, mysterious, dark and rarely spoken of outside the small circles of S&M practitioners. Now it includes everyone, even those who don't practice bondage, sadomasochism or risky kink.

The Forer effect, A.K.A the Barnum Effect, states that individuals will give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that supposedly are tailored specifically for them, but are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people. Example many of the titles and labels used in the genre. To quote P.T.Barnum, "Come one, come all. The circus has something for everyone."

Do you think BDSM and the labels used in it were made deliberately vague so that the participants may supply their own interpretations? Since S&M was so dirty and carried stigmatization that BDSM and other Vague and pleasant phrases were used to justify actions or beliefs? Has the Forer Effect diluted the scene?

< Message edited by Masculus -- 6/6/2010 7:18:11 PM >

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/6/2010 7:32:34 PM   
thornhappy


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Which scene?  I don't think it's ever been one scene or set of styles.

Besides, you're a 99 year old lesbian switch, with a business advising folks how to be a ho .  Not exactly Old Guard going on there!

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/6/2010 8:08:22 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Besides, you're a 99 year old lesbian switch, with a business advising folks how to be a ho .  Not exactly Old Guard going on there!



*laughs* Damn Thorny I thought you were joking. Dude, time to pay attention to your profile and stop trying to impress us with threads about how the "scene" is being diluted....which btw I don't see at all. I cannot recall seeing someone who wasn't into the things which comprise S&M claim to be.


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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/6/2010 8:53:35 PM   
Jeffff


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What scene?

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/6/2010 9:01:44 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

quote:

Besides, you're a 99 year old lesbian switch, with a business advising folks how to be a ho .  Not exactly Old Guard going on there!

*laughs* Damn Thorny I thought you were joking

can't.... stop.....laughing!!!!!!


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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/6/2010 9:20:56 PM   
Masculus


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quote:

Which scene? I don't think it's ever been one scene or set of styles.


You must have only read portions of my post. The scene where people performed sadomasochist theater in dank private clubs before the fad now known as a lifestyle.

As for me being Old Guard.. Ha Ha I don't believe in myths. And my how to be a ho thingy in my profile is a play on a SNL skit. But, even though my profile is a parody of a parody it is as believable as the old guard profiles on CM..

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/6/2010 9:28:02 PM   
Masculus


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quote:

Dude, time to pay attention to your profile and stop trying to impress us with threads about how the "scene" is being diluted....which btw I don't see at all. I cannot recall seeing someone who wasn't into the things which comprise S&M claim to be.


Wow, attacking my profile is a real argument winner. I guess the blinders you are wearing has kept you from seeing all the people who think debauched sexuality is a sin hangin' on CM. You know, the take in hand fuckers..

I am guessing you wise asses have never seen SNL.. But, if you think attacking my profile will win you a door prize, then by all means..

Lets try this, instead of making fun of my profile lets use the word submissive as an example. The term is obfuscative and confusing, and hardly anyone on most BDSM forums and chatroom can reach a consensus as to its meaning, but most meaning could apply to just about anyone from housewife to gardener, but the label is some sort of validation for those who use it.It is used to fit just about any situation no matter how boring and lifeless the situation is. Like take in hand.


< Message edited by Masculus -- 6/6/2010 9:49:42 PM >

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/6/2010 9:59:51 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

What scene?


I'm with the anteater. I'm an indie anyway so I don't care much for a scene.

As for the OP, *exclusive scene, party of one*

- LA


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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/6/2010 10:10:26 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Masculus
I guess the blinders you are wearing has kept you from seeing all the people who think debauched sexuality is a sin hangin' on CM. You know, the take in hand fuckers..

Um... actually, I've seen quite a few taken-in-hand couples post here, including many who never play outside of a committed long-term relationship.  So I doubt there's a "blinder" thing going on.

Also, if you spend some time reading the Leather Archives, you'll see that the Old Guard were anything but mythical, even though they never called themselves the Old Guard.

I'm not sure what your actual question or position is, because it doesn't seem to be based in reality.

In any event, it seems to me that people can use this site for more or less anything they want, and it doesn't affect me at all.  You're clearly worked up about something, but if it's what other people are doing sexually, then please bear in mind that usually means, in my experience,that: either you're a busybody, or someone who is having a hard time getting a date and wants to blame others for his own lack of success.


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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/7/2010 6:00:18 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Masculus

The topic says it all... What says you?


Well, I think most people (within your defined parameters) generally do have an ego-centric personal view so if someone pops along and says *All submissive exhibit XYZ traits and all dominants exhibit ABC traits" that actually *is* going to fit some of the people. The problem is that *some* is not *all* and just because I might embrace something that is meant generally but applys to me individually I just need to remember not to take such things personally as it really only matters within the small scope of my own relationships.

What role that has played is sketchy. I assume that those who practice BDSM are mature adults and can separate wheat from chaff, take what works, toss out what doesn't and, at least in the circles I hang in realize that one size fits all is best left for beach towels. When we have any sort of OP that is used with generic *you*, on occasion that generic does fit me and I'm cool with that and just don't tread and it's all good.

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/7/2010 6:05:48 AM   
sunshinemiss


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We call this the Aunt Sally effect - Anybody's Aunt Sally could say it.

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 6/7/2010 6:06:30 AM >


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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/7/2010 6:09:11 AM   
GreedyTop


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While I agree that there are probably a lot of people into the so-called 'scene' because it's fashionable, I think MOST are probably into it because it is an innate part of who they are.

Scene? heh.  Even 'back in the day' I feel pretty sure that more folks practiced the *ahem* lifestyle' privately than did participate in any 'scene'.

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/7/2010 7:40:56 AM   
DesFIP


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Your first misassumption, op, lies in the fact that you believe someone deliberately created these labels with a specific definition common to all in mind.

Wrong. People started doing things, then someone else slapped a catchy label on it that stuck. Or do you think the first heavy metal band refused to play music until after they found a way to describe the music they wanted to play? The thing comes first, the label comes after.

As far as labels being vague enough to refer to a great many different kind of people, so what? The term blonde refers to both Northern Europeans and those of darker skin color who use dye. That's certainly vague as well.

Cheese is a much more vague term, after all what real relationship is there between a three year olds grilled American sandwich and Limburger?


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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/7/2010 9:00:19 AM   
MadameMarque


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As an aside, what makes you think the "Old Guard" is a myth? You don't believe that the subculture existed, or you don't believe anyone who was in it is still alive?



quote:

ORIGINAL: Masculus

quote:

Which scene? I don't think it's ever been one scene or set of styles.


You must have only read portions of my post. The scene where people performed sadomasochist theater in dank private clubs before the fad now known as a lifestyle.

As for me being Old Guard.. Ha Ha I don't believe in myths. And my how to be a ho thingy in my profile is a play on a SNL skit. But, even though my profile is a parody of a parody it is as believable as the old guard profiles on CM..



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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/9/2010 4:00:51 PM   
Masculus


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This forum container is living up to its name.

quote:

Your first misassumption, op, lies in the fact that you believe someone deliberately created these labels with a specific definition common to all in mind.

Wrong. People started doing things, then someone else slapped a catchy label on it that stuck.


Yes, People have been doing it a very long time and it had a catchy label that did stick for nearly one hundred years, it was a clinical term and it was called Sadomasochism. Mush of the literature read by many of the koolaid drinkers of this genre, subculture or whatever claim that Sadomasochism was just a little to nasty and it had to be changed.

This is a quote from one of those koolaid drinkers handbooks. A shitrag called 'Screw the roses, send me the thorns', "BDSM - Once upon a time this was all called Sadomasochism (SM, S/M or S&M) and the players were all deemed very bad, sick, perverted people. We were just people though, as horny as everyone is, with a little kink to make us special. But some of us didn't want to be called sick, bad perverts and these people invented names like Dominance and Submission (D&S, DS or D/s), Love Bondage (Love Bondage) and Bondage and Discipline (B&D) to make themselves and the pleasure police think that what they did was different from what those sad, twisted, nasty old sadomasochists did, no no! Then we all got online with our personal computers (well, a lot of us did) and began doing what people do best when they're not having sex: argue. For months arguments about labels for our kinks clogged up the computer networks.
Finally, the term BDSM was born. This made many kinky people happy because it incorporated Bondage and Discipline (BD), Dominance and Submission (DS) and Sadomasochism (SM). We told the Love Bondage set that we loved them very much. To prove it, we tied them all up and dumped them in a deserted warehouse in East L.A. where we kept them bound in a circle whining Barry Manilow tunes from behind their gags. Did the arguments stop? Fat chance. Most of us, though, have found other things to argue about between sexual encounters."


Like many BDSM books this one claims the change from the clinical term to the more friendly BDSM was do to stigmatization. But I seriously doubt that, I believe it had nothing to do with stigmatization and everything to do with segmentation. This were a marketing tool like the Forer effect comes in handy, to increase the segment purchasing bondage, S&M gear and books. It did work to a degree, but soon after BDSM had to be revamped to reach an even larger segment. You see, BDSM still had that nasty S and M within its series of acronyms. The profiteers had to reach an even larger segment. Tada, D/s was born.

D/s was a wonderful thing, it could be applied to anyone and everyone. The nasty and perverted was eliminated and replaced by the boring and romantic. A romance novel lifestyle that replaced the physical with the spiritual.

It doesn't take long in searching this site or other like it to find those who think pain is wrong. These same people claim the lifestyle has nothing to to with sexuality or eroticism, the lifestyle is soooooooo much deeper. Horse shit  can get deep too.
If the lifestyle was so deep, then why do they come to sites like collar me, sites littered with pornographic ads depicting theatrical violence and abuse, bondage and huniliation. And all of these ads pose their models in sexual positions. It only shows you how powerful something vague can be. How powerful the Forer Effect is.

Another example is the beloved submissive. Submissive can describe anyone from a masochistic bottom to the family gardner.

quote:

As an aside, what makes you think the "Old Guard" is a myth? You don't believe that the subculture existed, or you don't believe anyone who was in it is still alive?


I tend to believe the literature from those who were around when the alleged old guard existed. The Larry Townsend's and Daniel Harris's who were around during the 60's and 70's, people who played with the practitioners of the 50's. The funny thing is that these Leather historians never mention the old guard or their protocols. As a matter of fact in the 1972 publication of 'The Leathermans Handbook'  there isn't any mentions of BDSM, D/s, Old Guard, etc.. All of these terms were born on the Internet to reach a broader segment.

Before anyone tries to label me a mainstream hater. I have no problem with the curious and their need to explore, but I have no love for a mainstreamer invader who refuses to explore bondage and sadomasochism, but instead assault it and claim their lifestyle is superior than my pastime.

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/9/2010 5:03:19 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

I have no love for a mainstreamer invader who refuses to explore bondage and sadomasochism, but instead assault it and claim their lifestyle is superior than my pastime.


And I'm sure they have no love for you. So now that this is settled, how about you chill out and join the diversity here.

Hell, if you drop the ego and the attitude down a notch or two, you might find some cool people and learn a thing or two.

That said, welcome to the boards. Shit disturbers tend to do well here ;-)

- LA


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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/9/2010 5:42:19 PM   
Missokyst


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Most people I know have been pretty cool about their particular roles.  Sure they might believe their way is best.. so what?  I have my own views on what works, for me.  And though I might look askance when some guy wants to walk his slave through a vanilla restaurant on a leash its really not my concern if said person believes his way is better or not, because it is not going to change my views in the least.

If you can live by your standards and accept who you are, it is easier to not give a damn about whether or not someone else thinks you are doing it wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masculus
I have no problem with the curious and their need to explore, but I have no love for a mainstreamer invader who refuses to explore bondage and sadomasochism, but instead assault it and claim their lifestyle is superior than my pastime.



< Message edited by Missokyst -- 6/9/2010 5:43:07 PM >

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/9/2010 6:09:15 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Masculus



Before anyone tries to label me a mainstream hater. I have no problem with the curious and their need to explore, but I have no love for a mainstreamer invader who refuses to explore bondage and sadomasochism, but instead assault it and claim their lifestyle is superior than my pastime.



You made me laugh. You're so over-the-top full of indignation. There be sadomasochists on these boards but damn, not everyone is cut out for this shit. They aren't the ones who are cleaning up the blood most likely because it just squicks them. So what? White ankle socks with sandals during the summer squicks me. We all have our sore points. It's okay to be a purist and it is equally okay for someone else to think their lifestyle sans SM is superior to yours. Really, it's okay. Their little delusion doesn't have to affect you unless you let it.

So lighten up, Francis. You're giving us sadomasochists a bad name.

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 6/9/2010 6:13:07 PM >


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