RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations?

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (Full Version)

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JstAnotherSub -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 10:21:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Can a slave have plans and aspirations such as: - to learn another language - to learn to play violin, or guitar, or piano or any other instrument - to finish certain schools, colleges, universities - to pursue his / her religion or spiritual path - to visit certain countries, to travel the world - to advance in his / her career - to have children and to raise them in a certian way Or (s)he must surrender all of these plans, dreams and aspirations to the Master / Mistress, and pursue only the plans / aspirations that Master / Mistress wants her / him to pursue. What happens if the slave already has all of these plans and aspirations in the beginning of the relationship and have had them even before the relationship started. Does he / she have to give up all of his / her plans, ambitions and aspirations if he / she wants to be a slave? Does a bear shit in the woods? The answers lie within us all. edit cause a damn n sprouted an extra hump

leadership527 -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 10:28:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot So I am willing to surrender control over my sexuality. I am willing to work for the domme. I am willing to be a bottom in many forms of BDSM play. I am willing to be her slave at home. But, in large society I want to be absolutely independent. (except in some little forms of play that would also apply outside) Even more importantly, I want to be politically, intellectually, religiously, socially and economically independent. I want to be the creator of my life philosophy and my attitudes and opinions. Well there ya go then. Save that statement somewhere and that's what you need to tell people. Some people might call that "sub", others "slave". In the end, the label applied to it is irrelevant. It is the relationship you are looking for.

marie2 -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 10:30:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: That's because you are extremely limited in your understanding of complex relationship dynamics and possibilities. Say a slave is a lawyer. This career, while fulfilling, takes up so much time and energy that she is not able to serve in the way the master requires. So the master orders the slave to change what they do. Is it truly so hard for you to understand why people would choose truth of themselves in their relationship above all else? Now, the slave can serve as desired. What if the slave is the best lawyer in his city? What if he won many difficult cases and wants to advance in career? What if all of his peers find him extremely talented? What if he feels that his calling in life is to be a lawyer. And then one day, the mastes says - no you won't be a lawyer anymore. I would not be able to accept this. Who can, perfect for them, but I wouldn't be able to compromise such things. I guess I'm one of those crazy vanilla thinkers at times. I think it's perfectly fine, likely, and possible to pursue and have a fulfilling career AND a happy and fulfilling relationship, Ds Ms Bs or whatever else two people want to call it. It doesn't have to be one or the other; the job or the happiness of the other person. The "slave" would just have to find a "Master" who shares the same standards and priorities in life. If my career is an intregral part of my identity and being sucessful in that regard is a fulfilling and important aspect of my life, then I would need to find someone who doesn't have a problem with that. That's all it is. There are no "slave" standards that have to be met. There is only what two people agree is important to themselves and the relationship.

domiguy -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 10:36:46 AM)
I disagree with much of what has been said here. I believe that the relationship makes sacrifices for the benefit of the individual. In my eyes there can be no exception. I have absolutely no interest in a sub that has no desires beyond that of the relationship. I seek a sub that has goals, desires, interests that are outside those of my own. I think it is my responsibility to the relationship, to myself and to the sub that every chance to reach a desired destiny is not thwarted but encouraged. There are many very insecure people that cannot seem to grasp this concept or live in fear of the potential ramifications that they might become obsolete or "out grown" by their sub. If you require your vision to be based solely upon what I see then you are blind. I have no need for a sub that comes with a seeing eye dog....they make me sneeze.

SocratesNot -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 10:41:20 AM)
quote: I disagree with much of what has been said here. I believe that the relationship makes sacrifices for the benefit of the individual. In my eyes there can be no exception. I have absolutely no interest in a sub that has no desires beyond that of the relationship. I seek a sub that has goals, desires, interests that are outside those of my own. I think it is my responsibility to the relationship, to myself and to the sub that every chance to reach a desired destiny is not thwarted but encouraged. There are many very insecure people that cannot seem to grasp this concept or live in fear of the potential ramifications that they might become obsolete or "out grown" by their sub. If you require your vision to be based solely upon what I see then you are blind. I have no need for a sub that comes with a seeing eye dog....they make me sneeze. Domiguy, I must agree with you here 100%. You described it perfectly.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 10:53:56 AM)
quote: Domiguy, I must agree with you here 100%. You described it perfectly. There are many here who 'serve' as well as 'dictate' strictly for personal gratification - most based upon posted representations. As long as you are honest with the other person that your needs supersede any relationship commitment and disclose that the relationship is conditional on those needs being met. There is not a requirement that any personal goal be compromised. There should be a requirement that they are disclosed so that when the time comes when personal needs and goals which are in conflict with the relationship the partners can enjoy a happy 'going away' from each other party. However, I see posts along those likes even less frequently than I see people putting the relationship over the individual. More often those personal conditions are kept secret until they exceed the investment return of assumed relationship 'fulfillment'. A relationship getting compromised for self fulfillment takes on the same significance as a 'booty call'. The pragmatic reality is you are on your own, but have some common itch to scratch. Not that there is anything wrong with that. No rules apply for right or wrong.

Falkenstein -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 11:05:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cassandria See, you couldn't compromise such things, but me, I wouldn't hardly blink. Why? Because I am a slave. .... cassandria, great profile, you have. The good thing about this kind of thread is that it incite one to look at profile that one would never find otherwise. When I think that fools are saying that the Internet is making people illiterate... But back to our subject. I think that you could as well have written "Because I am who I am". We have again here a discussion about the orthodox definition of what a proper "slave" is, what is the canon of Ds?. It is an almost ritual exercise, usually with a poor OP in the role of the sacrificial lamb. It comes with a regularity that even Swiss train would envy. It never fails to stir passion, causing otherwise polite and reasonable persons to hurl insults at each other. It is perfectly useless in getting any objective definition of what a slave / master / sub / dominant / should be. It is nevertheless an exercise loved because it allow each of us to define for her- and himself what he is. There are three currents in this community: The absolutists who either have an understanding of the expression pushed to the proper end of a logic or feel that only an absolute power exchange will make them happy. The moderates who are strongly aware of the society's ethics and mores and want their relationship to be seamlessly integrated in it, not just in forms but also in content. The relativists who consider that the form of the relationship depends of the desires and possibility of the two involved persons. Personally, I think that even if the form of the relationship depends of the individuals, as it has been said very eloquently by Ishtarr (who also has a beautifully written profile BTW), most people want norms to follow. And then my humanist education and philosophy pushes me then toward the moderate options.

SocratesNot -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 11:18:30 AM)
Another moderate here. Actually I'm somewhere between a moderate and a relativist. BTW; Fanlkenstin, you described the whole thing very well.

porcelaine -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 11:22:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Again, you described it perfectly. You ask what is most important to the submissive. Of course I did. Understanding what you want and what's important alleviates mistakes and time wasted in relationships that contradict these things. There's no reason why you can't do this and be practical. quote: If there is a domme who would encourage me in pursuing these goals and who would respect all of them, while I am at the same time submissive to her in domestic affairs and I surrender control over my sexuality, I'm doing household chores, running errands, BDSM play at home) this would be a perfect domme for me. The idea of micromanaging all aspects of your life is not appealing to everyone. Nor do all dominants seek to alter every conceivable portion of your landscape. Some appreciate the difference and don't feel bothered or threatened by it. If you look at this in artistic terms, a good sculpture knows when to add to and when to subtract from the piece. He doesn't carve aimlessly merely because he can. Each stroke has a definite purpose that brings out the image he has in mind. However, there are some that care not how beautiful the image is in its natural state. They are hellbent on modifying it completely. Get you someone that understands the difference. quote: Even more importantly, I want to be politically, intellectually, religiously, socially and economically independent. I want to be the creator of my life philosophy and my attitudes and opinions. So how do you maintain your individuality - your real self - while giving unselfishly to another and uncovering the hidden recesses of you? Find someone that respects the product in its current state. There's so many ways to go about this. And it's silly to submit yourself to the slaughterhouse if that won't bring you joy in the long run. I find the better you know you and remain true to whatever that is the less likely you'll have someone jabbing at you just because. ~porcelaine

cloudboy -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 11:23:38 AM)
That's because you are secure, and you prefer dynamism over routine and stagnation. Flexibility is an ally, and I agree 100% -- the more your partner develops -- the more a relationship prospers. But, this is also somewhat antithetical to "slavery." A "relationship" might be besides the point in a Master - Slave situation.

MstrPBK -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 11:28:14 AM)
to the OP: Just as I have plans and aspirations in life I encourage my slave to have similar ones. I know each slave is different. I know there may have to be give and take to find a balance between my needs and the slaves needs. MstrPBK St. Paul, MN USA

porcelaine -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 11:34:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy That's because you are secure, and you prefer dynamism over routine and stagnation. Flexibility is an ally, and I agree 100% -- the more your partner develops -- the more a relationship prospers. But, this is also somewhat antithetical to "slavery." A "relationship" might be besides the point in a Master - Slave situation. True. And I'm not about to say that the omission of those things is always done in the spirit of slavery or his role. Sometimes he's insecure and on an ego trip and needs a girl to validate his [fill in the blank]. ~porcelaine

porcelaine -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 11:54:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Even more importantly, I want to be politically, intellectually, religiously, socially and economically independent. I want to be the creator of my life philosophy and my attitudes and opinions. I had a thought after I replied to you. I'll spin it this way and it might make sense. Just because a person is successful at running Whole Foods doesn't mean he's equipped to run Microsoft. You're dealing with two different models. Apply that to the dominant. You'll encounter some that believe their skills equip them to manage any entity. Now, let's be serious. If he's aware of his capabilities and is honest then he knows there are some situations that will resonate and others that will not. An improper fit isn't the fault of the submissive or the dominant. But it does reflect that their talents won't be utilized to their full capacity with that particular company (person). You've already defined what you want in some respects. You need someone who's skills are best suited for your structure. If not, the leadership may be shaky. So if you're Microsoft, find the most adept person you can that stimulates all of you and the reverse and be with them. Unless you encounter a remarkable Whole Foods, it's probably going to be an odd fit. ~porcelaine

barelynangel -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 12:07:53 PM)
OP, its really very simple, if the needs of each party are met in an M/s relationship it will last and more than likely be successful. I mean its common sense, if you have a woman who needs to have a career and she has worked her life prior to her Master towards that career and he makes the determination that he doesn't want her working at all -- you have 3 different scenerios that could happen: 1. She is able to revert her needs to give up her career goals and simply be his slave and they work out wonderfully and all needs that need to be fed are being so. 2. He decides the cost of allowing her to have a career doesn't exceed her value to him so he can live with her being his slave and having a career she has aspired too and they work out wonderfully with all needs that need to be fed being so. 3. The needs for a career are too demanding for the slave or the cost of not having a stay at home slave are too high and exceed her value to the Master and the relationship doesn't work and they part ways or never get together and seek out different people who can feed their needs. Some do, some don't, some will, some won't. If you are trying to find ONE concensus, you are deemed to not only fail but find yourself completely confused. I have some advise for you take it or leave it, IF you are asking all of these questions trying to decide 1) if you want to be a slave or 2) may like to seek a Mistress or Master or 3) tryng to determine what type of slavery you want. STOP. Go out and MEET the person and the M/s relationship will grow if they are interested in you as a person and they see potential in you to be a slave to them. You are going to analyze yoruself into a box you can't crawl out of and will constantly be analyzing whether someone is the Master or Mistress you seek based on your decided understanding of what you want in slavery instead of the person you need in an M/s relationship as a whole concept. angel

BabieGothika -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 12:11:22 PM)
Well, the slave has to talk with TheMaster or Mistress first before start a relationship and tell them what she wants in life. This is a consensual relationship, so , you dont have to give up your dreams if u dont want to do it, as simple as that[;)][;)][;)][;)][;)][;)][;)][8\|][8\|][8\|][8\|][8\|][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]

ranja -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 1:30:50 PM)
If there are any people who have no plans or aspirations at all ever... i think they might aswell lay down and die.... it all seems a bit goldfishy to me that situation... personally i have many plans and aspirations... badly ordered and i have a problem with decision making so nothing too much comes of it unfortunately... still it is fun having them... and occasionally cleverly getting my way (i think) i am no slave though.

domiguy -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 1:36:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy That's because you are secure, and you prefer dynamism over routine and stagnation. Flexibility is an ally, and I agree 100% -- the more your partner develops -- the more a relationship prospers. But, this is also somewhat antithetical to "slavery." A "relationship" might be besides the point in a Master - Slave situation. I understand this very well. I am really not cut out to foster that type of a relationship. I would end up putting her pathetic ass down. It was a mercy killing.

domiguy -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 1:41:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Domiguy, I must agree with you here 100%. You described it perfectly. Is there anyone that has written something here that you have not agreed with 100%. What the fuck is wrong with you? Grow some stones!!! You don't see Merc and I agreeing with everything that is tossed our way, do you? Get some opinions. Ride them to your doom! I hate you. Merc, do you agree with me on this point?

Jeffff -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 1:42:32 PM)
Only a pussy would agree with you now!

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? (6/9/2010 1:44:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Is there anyone that has written something here that you have not agreed with 100%. Haha! Congrats, domi-I genuinely laughed at the screen. [:D]

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