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RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 11:04:18 AM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
BTW Tavis Smiley is a terrible interviewer and how he got a TV and radio show is simply beyond me.


Surely you know exactly why and how Ken.

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 6/13/2010 11:05:15 AM >

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RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 1:38:50 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Answer me this, Vince. 20 years ago, when you saw an "End Apartheid" bumper sticker, did you leap to the conclusion that it was a call for the US to invade South Africa?


There was a Plan B for South Africa, Rich. Dis-investment.

South Africa was geographically confined. The issue there was political.

Islam is not geographically confined and the issue is not political. There is no obvious lever to be employed. We have made the tragic mistake of sending troops to solve a sociological/tribal/religious issue.

We have added 1000 more to our 4500 war dead. The consequences to our troops go far beyond those numbers, Rich. There are shattered minds, amputated limbs and broken marriages as well.

Perhaps the silence you take for disinterest is the silence of recognition that the neocon philosophy of nation building in the backwash of British/French Imperialism is a bridge too far for a nation with limited means. Perhaps it is also a recognition of our limitations.

Currently, the Right is undergoing paroxysms of outrage and agony over Big Govt and increasing Govt deficits. The Gulf is puking oil and tar into essential wetlands. Unemployment is near 10% if you believe the lying numbers. We cannot solve our own problems and you want compassion for a distant issue.

This is not South Africa, Rich, and sadly we are not 20 years ago. Should not wonder why there is no traction for things far away.

The time to bring our troops home is now.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 3:20:54 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		I keep telling the new nation builders to pick up and go over there themselves to implement their ideology and stop sending young men in their places.Convert a few Muslims and spread the word of Jesus.Or Darwin.

What actual point does she offer that`s new or different?

What new ideas or insights does she bring to the table?

The only reason the rightists are embracing this loon is that she validates their prejudices toward Muslims.Not b/c she has anything constructive to offer.

Maybe if she wasn`t an extremist,more folks would have sympathy.But clearly,anyone who offers converting Muslims as a solution is not looking for solutions.Anymore than suggesting to Christians that they convert is a solution.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/13/2010 3:24:00 PM >

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RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 3:45:21 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Right, Vince, because if there is one thing the left is good at, it's recognizing the limitations of their beliefs. Jesus Christ! What nonsense is that?

Do be sure to watch HBO tomorrow night (6/14). They'll be premiering a new documentary about a woman who was murdered in the streets of Tehran. For Neda, is the title. You might have seen a little video with her in it, about this time last year. Or maybe you just turned away from it. No matter how cynical I get, the spark of hope and optimism never completetly goes away. Maybe the balance will finally begin to tip.

I'm well aware of the risks and sacrifices our armed forces make, Vince. You might not wish to go there with me.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 3:46:14 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
BTW Tavis Smiley is a terrible interviewer and how he got a TV and radio show is simply beyond me.


Surely you know exactly why and how Ken.

Why don't you tell me?

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 4:15:36 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Right, Vince, because if there is one thing the left is good at, it's recognizing the limitations of their beliefs. Jesus Christ! What nonsense is that?

Do be sure to watch HBO tomorrow night (6/14). They'll be premiering a new documentary about a woman who was murdered in the streets of Tehran. For Neda, is the title. You might have seen a little video with her in it, about this time last year. Or maybe you just turned away from it. No matter how cynical I get, the spark of hope and optimism never completetly goes away. Maybe the balance will finally begin to tip.

I'm well aware of the risks and sacrifices our armed forces make, Vince. You might not wish to go there with me.


And what about the millions of Iraqis your party(bush) helped bury under Sharia Law(Muslim Law)?

Why no concern about that bit of folly?

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/2897

Iraq: Beheading up. Constitution accepts Sharia

What about their plight?

Don`t Iraqis count in your equation?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/13/2010 4:16:55 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 5:07:20 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
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Status: offline 		What balance is that, Rich? I know about Neda. Are you suggesting we should have sent troops into Iran when she was killed? How about Somolia? Isn't Ms Ali from Somolia? Should we return there again? Oh wait, we do have troops in there, don't we? Then how about Yemen? They have an al quiada insurgency. Is that our war also? Define the balance you called for.

Better yet, lay out your program. What is it you wish us to do? I shouldn't turn away? Well, I don't turn away. I look. What do I see? I see billions of people world round living under the tyranny of Authority or Poverty/Disease as they have since time immemorial. Okay, I see em. They have my sympathy. Nothing new there. So, now what? What is your program? What part of our resources are you willing to spend in money and lives? Where?

Easy to write and accuse people of being insensitive and not offer a plan. You substitute political accusations for the lack of workable suggestions. I ask you to spell out your strategic priorities in terms of our human and financial resources. Converting the Muslim world to Christianity does not happen to be high on my list of do-able programs. Convincing desert tribes with thousands of years of history to change their ways does not seem achievable to me. So, that makes me insensitive? All you have done so far is make accusations. Talk to me when you have an ACTIONABLE PLAN. Otherwise, this is just political bitchery.

Btw, we are now in our longest historical war. How is Stanley McChrystal's plan working out? How many tours should our men and women serve? Four, five, six? You want to fight the Muslims big time? Should we institute a Draft? I get it. You are not really advocating a wider war. So, should we just muddle along with the one we have? With no clear objective. Without end. In fact, you are not advocating any action. You have selected a topic, as your title reveals, merely to beat over the head of political opposition.

What's the PLAN, Rich?


_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 5:09:49 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		he wants fake outrage,not solutions.....

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/13/2010 5:22:25 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 6:36:38 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Here is the entire premise of this thread, Muslim men are meaner than Christian men, and therefore White women should ban together to save our darker skinned sistahs...




You are not very good at this. More and more, Julia, all this education you like brag about seems like a great big waste of the taxpayer's dollar.

Try again. Weren't you bragging recently that you were trying to set aside your own sacred things, in order to better understand those of others? I realize that would involve actually behaving in a way you claim to behave, so it might be damn near impossible for you, but nobody said grad school was easy, did they?



What does my education have to do with your motivations to start this thread? Since the post you quoted was in regard to your obvious dislike of non Westerners, it really baffles me as to why you used it as your excuse to hate on me.... like I said, Western men are just as mean as Muslim ones... you prove my point!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 6:37:46 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Notice the grasping and flailing for any personal attack that might stick...


You are the king of those, Rich

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 6:39:34 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

yet here she is. I think she likes to set herself up to become a "victim."


No, I just like slumming some times

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 8:10:05 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
BTW Tavis Smiley is a terrible interviewer and how he got a TV and radio show is simply beyond me.


Surely you know exactly why and how Ken.

Why don't you tell me?



See... you do know.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 8:40:36 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		yup.

nod,nod wink wink.....

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 9:56:27 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Western men are just as mean as Muslim ones... you prove my point!



And you, Julia, clearly illustrate the reasoning of some societies in keeping their women locked away, voiceless and invisible

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 10:50:11 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


What's the PLAN, Rich?




You really are hung up on only seeing military options, aren't you, Vince? What was Rosa Parks' plan when she sat down at the front of the bus? What was Upton Sinclair's plan when he wrote The Jungle? Harriet Beecher Stowe's when she wrote Uncle Tom's cabin?

The plan is to get people talking, and paying attention, and knowing if there is a Pashtun speaking domestic violence counselor available in your city, county, or even state.

Here's a plan. I'm not 100% committed to it or anything, so better ideas are certainly welcome. We'll all buy enormous gas-guzzling SUV's, and drive around with the AC on and windows down. Then, when we've used up every drop of oil in the middle east, we'll make the food aid conditional on bringing human rights out of the dark ages.

It's better than your, "meh."

That's a real positive and progressive attitude you've got going there, Vince.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/13/2010 11:22:50 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Western men are just as mean as Muslim ones... you prove my point!



And you, Julia, clearly illustrate the reasoning of some societies in keeping their women locked away, voiceless and invisible


See, I knew you had a mean Muslim man hiding in you, which completely makes this entire thread that much more moronic...oops I meant Ironic..... You could always move to the middle east, since you abhor liberalness and all, they would welcome your outlook.... you know, supporting the right of women to advocate for their rights as long as it suits your agenda....lmao




_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/14/2010 6:48:18 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

See, I knew you had a mean Muslim man hiding in you, which completely makes this entire thread that much more moronic...oops I meant Ironic..... You could always move to the middle east, since you abhor liberalness and all, they would welcome your outlook.... you know, supporting the right of women to advocate for their rights as long as it suits your agenda....lmao



Bacon and booze aside, I'm pretty sure my rejection of the premise of the official religion would be a problem. You might be happy over there, though. Authoritarian governments running welfare states. That's how you define "liberal," right?



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/14/2010 7:22:58 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

You really are hung up on only seeing military options, aren't you, Vince? What was Rosa Parks' plan when she sat down at the front of the bus? What was Upton Sinclair's plan when he wrote The Jungle? Harriet Beecher Stowe's when she wrote Uncle Tom's cabin?


You read very selectively, Rich. And conveniently. I acknowledged you were not calling for war.

Rosa Parks, Upton, and Harriet were dealing with domestic issues. Are you as Progressive on domestic issues as you are on those in far away nations with ancient tribal systems?

quote:

The plan is to get people talking, and paying attention, and knowing if there is a Pashtun speaking domestic violence counselor available in your city, county, or even state.


Domestic violence is not the issue. It is a cultural issue. More than 130 school girls have been poisoned just for being school girls. Others have had acid thrown at their faces or been set on fire. And not just in the Pashtun south but in the Turk north as well. This has been going on since Bush turned his attention to Iraq. Sorry, but that's the truth. All those wasted years and missed opportunities. Now you seek to lay a guilt trip on Progressives. Now after nine years of war. Disingenuous of you, Rich. Shows that your main interest, as per the title of the thread, is to flay the Progressives.

quote:

Here's a plan. I'm not 100% committed to it or anything, so better ideas are certainly welcome. We'll all buy enormous gas-guzzling SUV's, and drive around with the AC on and windows down. Then, when we've used up every drop of oil in the middle east, we'll make the food aid conditional on bringing human rights out of the dark ages.


You're joking, right? You can't really be serious. Not only will it not happen but it presumes China, Russia, Iran, and Pakistan will sit by on their hands as if they have no interest in Afghanistan. Nevermind that we do not draw oil from Afghanistan. We already see in today's NYT that China has bribed an official of the Karzi govt with $30 million for rights to a copper field. Oh and how convenient that the DOD just released information of vast mineral deposits in Afghanistan not withstanding the information has been available since 2004.

quote:

It's better than your, "meh."

That's a real positive and progressive attitude you've got going there, Vince.


Again you put words in my mouth and assign attitude to me. Let's not carry on a dishonest dialogue here. My position was stated clearly. We must prioritize issues and deal with the most important and with the most practical use of our resources. What is happening to Afghan women is what has always been happening to them. It is deplorable but nothing new. We are not the world's saviours. We should sort out who our real antagonists are. That is a fairly Conservative position, Rich.


_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/14/2010 8:17:30 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

See, I knew you had a mean Muslim man hiding in you, which completely makes this entire thread that much more moronic...oops I meant Ironic..... You could always move to the middle east, since you abhor liberalness and all, they would welcome your outlook.... you know, supporting the right of women to advocate for their rights as long as it suits your agenda....lmao



Bacon and booze aside, I'm pretty sure my rejection of the premise of the official religion would be a problem. You might be happy over there, though. Authoritarian governments running welfare states. That's how you define "liberal," right?




Hmmmm...

Actually I consider myself a socio-anarchist, which if you read Marx, was what he was advocating for....


I have Greenie tendencies too....


Social Anarchism is a belief that governments should be local and organic. Large national governments tend to be militaristic. Social justice should be universal, although we are far from being in the situation where that could exist on planet earth as a whole. Economies would also be ran on the local level, with the needs of the community from which they are a part of being the primary concern....etc...

But yanno, it is much more interesting to bag on me for stuff you just don't understand.,.. please continue, I rather enjoy your catty posts, they reflect your character

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: We Hates her, too - 6/14/2010 7:48:40 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		First off, Vince, you accuse me of putting words in your mouth, after putting the major focus of your post on Afghanistan, and suggesting that I'm trying to use women's rights to advance our efforts in that meatgrinder. I want us out of there, Vince. I didn't want us to go there when we did. It was inevitable in that moment, but I didn't like it.

You want to talk Afghanistan? That wonderful land where empires go to die? Start a thread. We might find much common ground.

quote:

Are you as Progressive on domestic issues as you are on those in far away nations with ancient tribal systems?


Well that sorta depends which domestic issues we are talking about, and how we are defining progressive. I favor greatly reducing the size of government. I believe not only in an individual right of self-defense, but also that an armed citizenry is most likely to remain a free citizenry. I think some crimes demand the death penalty. I'm also a complete pain in the ass regarding free speech and expression. I think abortion should be legal right up until the moment we can just adopt out a preemie. I want equal rights for everybody. I think the military should recruit illegal immigrants, as a path to citizenship.


I'm so hurt that you don't like my plan, Vince. Not even the part about getting people aware and mentally engaged? Surely you can come up with one of the many other possible paths we could take to try and make a difference?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 80
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