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RE: We Hates her, too - 6/14/2010 9:48:32 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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Well folks......

After all the goading and guilt tripping, ridiculous premises and cryptic incrimination's offered to us by rich,I have a few questions.

Are any of you more sympathetic toward Ms. Ali`s plight ?

Did the use of strong arm moralizing inspire you or put you off?

And would someone be better off earning the public`s respect or is there a place for brow beating folks into believing someone is deserving of it?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/14/2010 9:52:27 PM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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Post #: 81

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/14/2010 10:35:54 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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I think you have a new name, Owner59. As a consistent carrier of the party line, from now on, I'm going to call you Basiji.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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Post #: 82

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/14/2010 10:40:50 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Did the use of strong arm moralizing inspire you or put you off?

It made me laugh...does that count?

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 83

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/14/2010 10:45:59 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I think you have a new name, Owner59. As a consistent carrier of the party line, from now on, I'm going to call you Basiji.

Please stop fawning over me,you`re embarassing yourself.....

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 84

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/14/2010 10:46:19 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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Actually, it sounded a bit like Minotaur.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 85

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/14/2010 10:49:00 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Actually, it sounded a bit like Minotaur.

Huh?

Are you saying my laugh sounds like a Minotaur? Oh, Rich, what am I suppose to retort? You have a poo poo head? Grow the fuck up, or at least gain some self respect and come back with something a little more sophisticated as a put down...omg.....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 86

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/14/2010 10:50:16 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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This is how rich wins hearts and minds.....

The apple doesn`t fall far from the bush.....

Thank`ya vermuch ladies and gentlemen....

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 87

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/15/2010 9:00:43 AM

vincentML

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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

First off, Vince, you accuse me of putting words in your mouth, after putting the major focus of your post on Afghanistan, and suggesting that I'm trying to use women's rights to advance our efforts in that meatgrinder. I want us out of there, Vince. I didn't want us to go there when we did. It was inevitable in that moment, but I didn't like it.

You want to talk Afghanistan? That wonderful land where empires go to die? Start a thread. We might find much common ground.

Then, we are in agreement about Afghanistan, Rich.

quote:

Well that sorta depends which domestic issues we are talking about, and how we are defining progressive. I favor greatly reducing the size of government. I believe not only in an individual right of self-defense, but also that an armed citizenry is most likely to remain a free citizenry. I think some crimes demand the death penalty. I'm also a complete pain in the ass regarding free speech and expression. I think abortion should be legal right up until the moment we can just adopt out a preemie. I want equal rights for everybody. I think the military should recruit illegal immigrants, as a path to citizenship.

We agree/disagree on the items above.

quote:

I'm so hurt that you don't like my plan, Vince. Not even the part about getting people aware and mentally engaged? Surely you can come up with one of the many other possible paths we could take to try and make a difference?

So, we are back to the probability that there is no actionable plan available from anyone that would be effective. Making people aware? Yeah, that's good ... but not effective because (1) the news cycle is short, and (2) the tribal leaders, sitting on a thousand years of what makes their society work, have a deaf ear to the West, (3) the central govt has no leverage with the tribes (4) it is unlikely we could get cooperation from nations who have leverage (as for example China with N.Korea)

Is it an injustice? You betcha. Are there other injustices in the world? You betcha. Can we solve them? Nope.

That reality should be one of the guide posts for our foreign policy imo. Why? Because China looms large as a future adversary. They are building an ocean going navy and airforce that has the potential to rival ours, for their own self-interest. Meanwhile, we are wasting manpower and treasure on little cul-de-sac battles. Our generals and pols are pitiful if they are not looking over the horizen, and I don't think they are. It is not in our self-interest to liberate the women of Afghanistan. RealPolitik. Google it if you need to.

Have a good day, Rich. It was a pleasure having a polite discussion with you.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 6/15/2010 9:55:20 AM >

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Post #: 88

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/15/2010 5:36:42 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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A more generous question toward Ms. Ali would be,is her situation ,ie,her acceptance and welcoming to the fold improved by rich`s approach(brow-beating,pressure,devisive tactics,etc. ) ?

Or,would Ms. Ali fare better in the world with normal folks, if he was introduced in a more conventional way?

Like "meet Ms Ali,she`s done this,said that and wrote two books about it',rather than support her or you`re with the Iranian`s.......

That`s not very intellectually honest and in many ways,counter-productive to rich`s aims.Which is to help Ms Ali,right?

You get a lot more bees with honey than you do with vinegar.Just say`n.

I mean,if rich sells her the way the cons sold us Iraq,does that help her with normal folks?

But perhaps rich`s interest isn`t so much about raising Ms Ali`s cache as in clubing folks over the head.Why?Only his Dr. knows for sure.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/15/2010 5:52:44 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 89

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/15/2010 9:23:43 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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Yeah, polite conversation is all well and good, Vince, but you're still talking about about Afghanistan. That's the heart of darkness, man. You are aware that Ms. Hirsi Ali is from Somalia, right? And that where her film partner was murdered and mutilated on a public street was in Amsterdam? That the American Academy of Pediatrics is a US institution?

I also have a problem with your theory that people don't become personally invested in creatng change because they rationally see that there isn't anything to be done. Kind of a 'back an 18-wheeler through that hole' sort of problem. It isn't logic that drives the trumpeting lefty herd, but emotion. They are defined by 'feeling' rather than 'thinking.'

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 90

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/16/2010 7:34:22 AM

truckinslave

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The left is engaged in proactive dhimmitude on many fronts.

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Post #: 91

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/16/2010 7:39:25 AM

mnottertail

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can't do much more when dealing with right side dimwits.

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Post #: 92

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/16/2010 8:18:11 AM

vincentML

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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Yeah, polite conversation is all well and good, Vince, but you're still talking about about Afghanistan. That's the heart of darkness, man. You are aware that Ms. Hirsi Ali is from Somalia, right? And that where her film partner was murdered and mutilated on a public street was in Amsterdam? That the American Academy of Pediatrics is a US institution?

I am quite aware of all the above, Rich. Difficult to tell which of the two is moreso the heart of darkness and why we would wish to go to either.
Religious/political murder on public streets may be rare events but murders just the same. It is the emotional reaction we attach that gives them significance. At best they are just one-offs now and again and not canaries in coal mines as you seem to imply.

quote:

I also have a problem with your theory that people don't become personally invested in creatng change because they rationally see that there isn't anything to be done. Kind of a 'back an 18-wheeler through that hole' sort of problem. It isn't logic that drives the trumpeting lefty herd, but emotion. They are defined by 'feeling' rather than 'thinking.'

Oh, and the frenzied folks on the Right are rational and devoid of anger/hatred? Pfft. You define the Left as "feeling" rather than "thinking" in a transparent effort to denigrate them. Feeble debate technique.

Let me ask you, Rich.... why has Ms Ali not been able to arouse the Tea Partiers and Michigan Militia types to her cause? Where are their marches for the women of Afghanistan? Why are their voices not raised in full-throated cries of anguish against the injustice? Where are the banners and teach-ins? Why is it you are critical of only the Left? Why do you excuse with your silence the disinterest on the Right? Is human suffering not on the agenda of those on the Right who cry out for Liberty? Or is it that their Liberty agenda is too self-serving?

I think for both groups self-interest is the motivator that keeps the women of Afghanistan off the radar. Additionally, they are not unique among the sets of the exploited groups of the world. We cannot save everyone. Shit, we are not even willing to endure hard-working undocumented Latinos in our own yard unless they are mowing the grass of course.

Humanity in toto and her sister Nature are heartless, uncaring Bitches.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 93

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/16/2010 9:26:09 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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Again, Vince? Again you seek to shrink this into something that is only about conditions in Afghanistan? What the fuck? People get killed in the streets all the time and we should just regard the assassination of a film maker as no different than gang-bangers having a drive-by? If Theo Van Gogh wasn't a canary, why did a prestigious university press publish a book about the Danish cartoons, without including the cartoons? Why did Comedy Central chop South Park off at the knees?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 94

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/17/2010 6:25:44 AM

vincentML

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Well, you went on and on about the mistreatment of the women of Afghanistan, Rich. You excoriated the Left for their silence of disinterest. Now, you say there is a greater issue. What exactly are you afraid of? Please get to the point.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 95

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/17/2010 6:54:01 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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No I didn't, Vince. You are the one who brought up, and obsessed on, that particular region, and now want to spin the conversation into an entirely different direction.

Have a great day.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 96

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/17/2010 6:52:23 PM

vincentML

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Joined: 10/31/2009
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You're right, Rich. I mis-spoke, as they say. Apologies. It wasn't you. It was Ms Ali's ridiculous notion that Christians should try to convert Muslims which led me to focus on that area because her "solution" suggested nothing less than a Crusade given the evidence of history and because we already had our military mired in the dust there. Afghanistan stands as a proxy for the careless, impractical, and disingenuous solution she presented.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 97

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/18/2010 9:41:11 AM

MissSepphora1

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Joined: 1/11/2008
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And the leftists would rather point at the right instead of themselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

So, what are these two advocating but nothing less than a war against all of Islam? Any suggestions on what the strategy might be?

Stop kissing their collective asses, for one. Talk about the obvious evils of Islam and drop this entirely forced and untrue "religion of peace" bullshit. Call Jihadists evil instead of proclaiming it, at the highest levels of this administration, to be a religious tenet deserving of respect. Give Islam the same respect afforded other equally sexist, intolerant, violent groups- say, the KKK and the Aryan Nations.

Shhhh.

<whispers>

Didn`t you get the memo?

The republicans don`t want to appear like a bunch of thugs imposing their religious bigotry out in the open.

Keep it off list.

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Post #: 98

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/18/2010 9:43:58 AM

MissSepphora1

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And you are how the left act snipey and jealous.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

This is how rich wins hearts and minds.....

The apple doesn`t fall far from the bush.....

Thank`ya vermuch ladies and gentlemen....

< Message edited by MissSepphora1 -- 6/18/2010 9:45:43 AM >

_____________________________

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 99

RE: We Hates her, too - 6/18/2010 7:44:06 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

Oh, don't pay too much attention to the Basiji, MissS. He gets all the talking point emails, but he's really quite funny when he tries striking out on his own.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 100

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