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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 9:22:26 AM   
KnockerBockers


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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 9:22:53 AM   
MHOO314


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Status: offline 		Forced service no, unless its WW3, I DO however think criminals convicted of felonies should serve military time---hard core.
 
Now that will steal this thread for sure...

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 9:25:17 AM   
Tikkiee


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Status: offline 		To tell the truth, I am kind of torn on the issue of mandatory military service. On one hand I think that everyone should serve at one time or another (male and female); yet, on the other, I don't think forcing someone to serve is right either.             
 

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 9:26:35 AM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		.. imagine the scene......an 'enlightened' governemnt in some western nation brings in a citizens draft, serve your time and be able to vote, or duck and put up........several generations later you have two countries where there was one, and everyone fighting, but not with the enemy, just each other.
The op referred to the idea of a citizens draft as a response to an ever increasingly violent society, and that instead of halting this process we ought to simply join in, albeit with bigger guns..........i leave it to those who read this to consider how utterly irresponsible i think this idea is........

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 10:40:20 AM   
Gauge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: james66

No! No and NO!

Been there, done it and bought not only the t-shirt, but the entire market stall.

Military service oozes of unfairness. Those who are crafty enough to worm their way out, do just that! Its always the silent majority that ends up standing in muck up to their knees.

Maybe I'd be for it if it meant both women and men in their 30s. Be nice to see how socially accepatable the concept is then. But it seems to me, most people look the other way when it comes to prodding and pushing 19 year old boys into something they know nothing about....

From my own experience, I would say 8 out of 10 would have gladly walked away from it all, at any time during the service, given just half a chance.

Playing mindgames with young people just isn't accepatable, and they know they can't do it with mature people .......and even so, should a society actually choose to force military service upon them, at least pay a wage that approaches that of a sunday paper boy.


I totally agree. Teaching young people respect, honor and responsibility is completely out of the question. Young people should be allowed to continue their lives without any sense of these things. I believe that it will contribute to a stronger foundation of society as a whole. I know I sure don't want my kids growing up with those values.

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 10:52:35 AM   
Gauge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

To tell the truth, I am kind of torn on the issue of mandatory military service. On one hand I think that everyone should serve at one time or another (male and female); yet, on the other, I don't think forcing someone to serve is right either.


While I am torn as well, I can see both sides of the issue. Having America being "The Land Of The Free" is the foundation of our nation. Freedom is choice and forced military service does not give one that choice to serve or not.

On the opposite side, I don't think that mandatory military service (male and female) would be altogether a bad thing. The military knows who is cut out for service and who isn't and for those that wouldn't make it they can be offered something else as a mandatory service.

The military teaches values and skills to people. I honestly don't think that many young people come out of high school knowing exactly what it is they want to do. Some do, but I believe the majority do not. The military would give young people a chance to decide a direction for their lives. At the same time it would expose them to things that they might never have a chance to be exposed to in their lives... and yes, getting shot at is one of them, sadly.

It is a rough topic and not one that will have a definitive answer.

Oh... just for those that might be wondering, I have never served in the military.

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 11:37:41 AM   
JohnWarren


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Status: offline 		As someone who has "seen the elephant," I'll be damned if I want someone covering my flank because he has to be there rather than he's chosen to be there.  If you want service, there is a lack of teachers for inner city schools and people to pick up trash and do the dirty, nasty jobs society needs, but combat is no place to put someone against his will.

There is some sort of idea that being a soldier is something anyone can do.  However, today, it is a highly skilled job that should be undertaken only by the willing and motivated.

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 11:42:23 AM   
Moloch


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Status: offline 		"
Never was in the military. Fresh out of college, there were no major threats on the horizon. I was going to go into the military, but was told that I'd have to enlist FIRST, then they'd get me to OCS if they could (but no promises). I didn't want to be a 23 year-old E-3 with a Bachelor's Degree taking shit from another 23 year-old 2nd Lt. with the same education. Plus, I didn't think I'd be needed. But, now that things have become more hostile worldwide, I'd be willing to serve (even as an E-3) if my country needed me." "I'll volunteer as a mandatory recruiter. I'll work at the mall. Every time I see a kid with earrings or holding his pants half way up, I'll recuit em. And while we're at it, when I see girls doing everything they can to pretend they're boys, I'll recruit them too." "Notice that I said I don't mind serving if there is a genuine military threat or a threat to the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Guess what---Mandatory military sevice not in time of war would be defined as involuntary servitude in my book and probably quite a few other's as well. If this guy, or any other, wants to force me into such a thing then I have no problem with the use of deadly force. I will NOT go quietly.
I didn't get a selective service card in the mail, so I just filled out the info online." "Mandatory service? Never gonna happen, a draft..well, maybe if North Korea, Iran, and China all hit the fan at once. You know how much it costs + time for just one recruit from the time he enters Boot Camp till he hits his/her unit? A shitload. Now multiply that by everyone? Not gonna happen.

Not only that, but there are enough people in the military now that dont want to be in, most of em are shitbirds and you cant count on them to even show up on time. Now multiply that by everyone again, what do you have? French Army at best. We have the best military in the world, and its all voluntary. It didnt get like that on accident." Sone quotes I got from my favorite Rifle discussion board.   

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 11:49:50 AM   
BitaTruble


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Status: offline 		Putting a gun into the hands of some people who shouldn't be allowed to hold a slingshot is a very scary idea.

Celeste



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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 11:50:35 AM   
caitlyn


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Status: offline 		It doesn't matter how anyone feels about it ... we couldn't even come close to paying for it.

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 1:33:42 PM   
Lashra


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Status: offline 		Yep I think it should be either one year military service or social service as in helping the elderly, the sick etc.

~Lashra

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 2:00:47 PM   
Pavel


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From: Washington
Status: offline 		I just don't like the idea.  People shouldn't be forced to take on tasks, or causes they don't believe in.  I know my goodwill would be tested if I was told that I had the option of the military (assumeing it wasn't somthing I wanted to be part of),  or taking care of old people for two years.  I'm not sure we'd be well off to have people doing the "Right thing" because there's an "or else" clause attatched.
While draftee soldiers traditionally perform as well as their volenteer comrades in arms on the battlefield, do you really want to keep a draftee in uniform long enough to make the investment in their training worthwhile? It costs lots of money to train and equip a soldier, especially in technical fields  Would a year in service that's actually perhaps 3-4 months training, and 8 months actual duty be worthwhile?  .  I find it unlikely to expect the United States Military to be able to keep it's edge if it was constantly cycling through waves of draftees, comeing in and going out.
And again, I'd be right peeved if I was told I was going to sit with old people, and change bedpans for 2-3 years, because someone thinks I owe it to them.
I'll stick with giveing my service where I think it's due, thank you very much.

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 3:40:06 PM   
Arpig


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NO


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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 3:45:41 PM   
Enlightenment


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Status: offline 		Maybe it would be more beneficial and give the kids/parents more options by offering a specified time of military service equals free healthcare for life and or a reduction in taxes.  Still a choice however it becomes a viable option.

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 4:20:35 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Ah, lets have the state engage in bribery shall we?
Whatever happened to being a free society, where one is free to serve or not, according to one's own concience (just to save you from asking: I was never in the military, I have always been inelligible for military service due to a congenital back condition that was agrivated in early high school wrestling).

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 4:27:18 PM   
Enlightenment


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Status: offline 		How is that bribery?  Is not college an investment in your future?  So would military service.  I think it would open a door for parents to become actively involved with laying out choices for their children.

There are a lot of benefits that come from military service.  People that serve MAKE it possible for people that don't.  Why not offer them an easier way of life with free medical and reduced taxes?  Nobody is forcing you to join it is just another option for those who put their lives on the line so MOST of the people don't have to.

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 5:30:46 PM   
ScooterTrash


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quote:

steven43
i found that many of the individuals currently in the miltary "grew up" . Finding out what responsibility is and how a little discipline wouldn't hurt anyone

  Agreed steven, been there done that. Even if not a draft, I honestly think that most young folks coming out of High School could definately use a few years in the "service" to finish growing up. From what I have seen, and I have seen many, who enter the workplace green out of school, they just aren't ripe yet. Society has made everything so politically correct that discipline is something they do not understand. They seem to be totally amazed that they are actually expected to work for a living, most feel they did enough just showing up. And in the public workplace it is difficult to teach any discipline so all that happens is they get fired and then it takes years for them to learn the hard way that they have to discipline themelves, since no one is allowed to do it for them anymore. So if not drafted, I would suggest they do it anyway. Learn to show up, learn to work, learn to apply themselves, learn to be something they didn't think they could be...a responsible citizen.
   I'm a Nam vet and damned proud of it, there was a war (no it wasn't a conflict damnit) at the time and although there was a lottery (fancy name for selective service) I joined the USAF on my own accord. Was it because I wanted to kill asians, was it because I was a warmonger, NO, none of the above. It was because although I didn't necessarily agree with the war, I felt it was my moral obligation to my country to support it. I showed up at basic training with my peace sign necklace hanging around my neck, mentally protesting the war and physically doing what I could to end it. Make sense? Probably not, but patriotism is not ducking into a corner and letting someone else fight for your rights. I hated the war, but I loved the fact that I had the right to hate it. I went in near the end of Nam so I never had to go overseas, but the point is I was available if needed...not trying to figure out how to get out of it. I did my part, I grew up, I learned a lot and the things I learned have paid off in all aspects of my life since. I did my 4 years and got out, but it was NOT lost time, it was simply a furthering of education, life education if nothing else, something you don't learn in a classroom. I could go on, but I imagine you get the drift.
 
  Granted, a draft is not something that should be taken lightly as it does "force" many to do what they perhaps do not want to do. But, on the other hand, it is not ridiculous to expect a citizen to protect/defend the same country that offers them the rights which we call freedom. The words protect &/or defend however have been exploited so much I don't know for sure under which banner they exist under anymore, is it during peacetime or while at war? Since either is useful I suppose it doesn't matter, it just increases the odds of what you might be giving up should the service involve activity in actual combat. I know, I know..the current exploits of the beaurocracy in power does give negative connotations to the possibility of someone being drafted into such a venture, but the only way to change that type of situation is to not put self serving individuals in a position where they can dictate war in the first place. Certainly that's an issue, but it does not mean that having some sort of selective service is a bad thing, it just means the ones in power are assholes, that is something we can fix in time.
   I'm not saying that the draft necessarily should be reinacted, but something similar would not be a bad idea. Give options, offer incentives, let them pick the type of service they would prefer to participate in, be it the Coast Guard, the Reserves, or active military among other things. Give them a push to have that opportunity to have that "I contributed" feeling. I think part of the problem not only in the US but in many areas of the world is that it's just so easy to let someone else "do it" while they reap the benefits. Reminds me of a sticker; "ass, gas or grass, no one rides for free". 

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 5:36:10 PM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnockerBockers

It has been a while since the draft. We have always lived in a violent society but it has become far more so since the draft ended. Should all able bodied men and women be made to serve 3 years in the service and 3 years in the reserve,as a part of the right of Citizenship? Defending one's nation should be a noblis oblige and a right of passage. Who agrees/disagrees?



Just a short answer here.... because I couldn't resist before I was headed to the gym :

I can tolerate a lot of different things and whole lot of different people, but the one thing I cannot tolerate is lazy-ass people. So.... from my perspective, I would give them the choice to either join the military, or they could go pick lettuce in Yuma for two years. That way the crapy politicians we have can't come up with an excuse to tell us why we need open borders.

I definitely think either two years in the hot sun of Yuma or two years cleaning shower stalls with a small brush would make many young people more self-disciplined and better, more productive citizens.


 - R

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 6:18:32 PM   
kiska


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From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		quote:

ORIGINAL: KnockerBockers

It has been a while since the draft. We have always lived in a violent society but it has become far more so since the draft ended. Should all able bodied men and women be made to serve 3 years in the service and 3 years in the reserve,as a part of the right of Citizenship? Defending one's nation should be a noblis oblige and a right of passage. Who agrees/disagrees?

I just had a very similar discussion with a friend the other night.

I fully support the idea of men having to serve at least 2 years in the military before being considered full citizens. I dont think women should serve in the military at all but then again, I also dont believe that women should vote. I dont believe in exercising certain rights 'just because you can' ...

Being in the military does help a lot of young men grow up a bit ... But it doesnt *always* help. Military service is not some blanket cure for today's irresponsible, disrespectful youth. I am a firm believer that who we are as young adults hinges a great deal on who our parents were when we were children. As a young adult you are suddenly faced with the responsibility of choosing who you will become. But at that exact moment in time, most of who you are is directly related to how you were raised. Joining the Military for two years isnt going to undo 20 years of neglect or bad parenting.

I think people in general should stop being so selfish. When a woman becomes a mother, her children should be her first priorty. This means you either stop working outside of the home or you work when your kids are in school. (I also think homeschooling a far better choice than packing your kids off to public school though so in my case, I'd stop working out of the home.) Yeah, this means you wont be able to afford as much *stuff* but are you really missing out?

I was raised in a tiny home where my family had one car. We didn't always have cable tv. We didnt get the internet or a computer until 8 years after all my other friends had one. I didnt have tv in my bedroom until I was 13 years old. I didnt have my own phone line. I had an extension on the house phone line but not until I  was 15 years old. I didnt get a cell phone until I left home and purchased it myself with my own money. I respected my parents. If my father said jump I didnt even pause to ask him how high.  I just did it.

My father died when I was 14 and we had even less. My mother and I argued constantly and at times she was downright abusive. I avoid her now as an adult because I realize that she is a poor influence over my life. However, because of how I was raised, I realize that I dont need *stuff* to be happy. I need love, acceptance. I need the man in my life to be strong, stable, responsible. When I have children, they will respect me as their mother and I will devote myself entirely to their upbringing.

What is my point?

We are a selfish group of people. We want more and more and more. We're not happy with what we have because we have this notion that if we 'work' harder we can have more. But work isnt just something you do for money. You work on relationships, you work on raising your children, you work on making yourself a better person. Why is it ok to neglect all those other areas of work just so we can have some more shiney new stuff?

OK, so I got way off topic ... lol .. But I needed to vent I guess. And its off to a shower with me!

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/12/2006 6:31:21 PM   
MadamShy


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Status: offline 		I am a retired Veteran
but my opinion ... Not in this war... its NOT our War .. It never was .. it was made to seem Like our war because of 9/11 but it never ended up being about that after all...

lets fight for Our own country ... lets take care of our own people .. New Orleans needs help ... they have a trailer park full of trailers to help out.. but money was misguided and no one is living in them ..

I say again... Lets take care of ourselves ... get our economy back up...




from the commitee to impeach bush and  take our country back

< Message edited by MadamShy -- 4/12/2006 6:32:45 PM >

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