RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Citizenship responsibilities?

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RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/13/2006 8:04:44 PM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
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and how about the people who have no interest in service of any kind and would do a piss poor job because they're being forced to do something they don't wish to. how about putting patience's lifes at risk with stupid sloppy mistakes cause they could care less. Or how about the hassle and wasted time to your boss.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fergus

I don't agree that Military service should be required,

But I think Service should be. There should be a criteria for able bodied and able minded people to serve. Military service should certainly be ONE avenue to satisfy service requirements, possibly hospital work, care for public land, and any other number of things that could help make our country better.

fergus

(in reply to fergus)

Post #: 61

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/13/2006 8:11:21 PM

wickedgoddess4U

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/4/2005
Status: offline

YES !! as a female vet of the vietnam era i do believe in service to the country. i am also the mother of a 24 year old son who wanted to go in but due to a medical condition could not pass the physical.
i know my military time did me a world of good. there is no better place to learn self discipline and respect for others.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 62

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/13/2006 8:17:55 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I'm always amused by the way people in the military think they have a special angle on military affairs.

My grandfather fought in WW I, my uncle fought in WW II, and my Dad fought in the Korean War. Not too many families can match that. But I don't pretend to have a more important opinion than anyone else. If there's going to be a draft (and there isn't), it will affect all Americans, not just the people who happen to be in the Armed Forces right now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GADomCpl

Given the fact that I am going on 7 years in the Army, and only have another 13 to go, I think I have no problem speaking about this.

(in reply to GADomCpl)

Post #: 63

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/13/2006 8:27:00 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

Sorry that just smacks of Animal farm to me....all are equal, but some are more equal.
I am afraid that your idea would lead to two classes of citizens, with one group having special priviledges not accorded to all. Perhaps now might be a good time to remind you that the first of Thomas Jefferson's self-evident truths was that all of us are equal. I find the very idea of a nation founded on that principle would even consider instituting a two-tier citizenship

_____________________________

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Post #: 64

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/13/2006 8:33:55 PM

ArtCatDom

Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnockerBockers

What SAS? The British 22nd Special Air Service Regiment or its brother counterpart the Australian Special Air service. The limies now also have the Special Reconnaissance Regiment, 148 meiktila battery RA, Spinx Battery RA, The RM Special Boat Service(battalion size),the RM Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre(Company size), 14 Intelligence Company(tri service unit where all ranks relinquish their rank and dont hold rank and elect their own detachment commanders during the 2 year posting).

Special Air Servive, Australian Regular Army.. I resigned the Queen's Commission to go to Nam with the US SF. Yep we still call it as the Queen's Commission and will continue to do so unless the Republicans here make Aussie a republic at which time I shall be leaving the country of my birth and taking citizenship in another.. (My first loyalty is to the British Crown and blood ties me to the House of Winsor in a devious and tenuous way)..

Loyal to the Crown? Hmm, that's funny, I never pictured you advocating the restoration of the Stuarts.

*meow*

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 65

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/13/2006 8:54:03 PM

thetaboosun

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

This is a really interesting question. Compulsory military service, while the hallmark of a militaristic, self-destructive society, would theoretically promote higher quality and more accountability in the Defense Department. While many people join the military for noble reasons today, incidents like Abu Ghraib show that at least some of the people that ultimately join are the scum of our society with no place else to go. Imagine, instead of having people barely able to graduate from high school with no hope of finding a real job, having the top of the line, most intelligent people our schools can produce operating as cogs in the bureaucratic machine that is the military. It could potentially make operations run more smoothly, promote a greater societal consciousness of the existence of a military (in turn leading to adequate supplies reaching the troops, as opposed to the controversies coming left and right about armoring in Iraq), shorter service times, etc.

Then again, it could degrade service, since people who don't want to be there will ultimately be there... so many potentials, so many problems.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 66

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/13/2006 8:54:08 PM

ArtCatDom

Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline

A lot of we ex-military who look down on mercanaries as a group do so for two primary reasons beyond professional jealousy.

First, mercanaries often act far outside the bounds of acceptable behavior by military codes. As a military man, you must understand that those ethical boundaries are a touchstone for many soldiers. (Hence why you see much more condemnation of torture and pseudo-torture within the military than within the gen-pop.) Some soldiers and ex-soliders (not I however) can even stomach this fact. However, when the shit hits the fan, it's rarely Black Ops Limited who takes the heat. The military suffers the stones and insults for most wretched actions that mercanaries take on our behalf. It comes down to the fact that almost nobody wants to take crap for other people's wrongs.

Second, mercanaries are often seen as dishonest as an industry. Using PC speech, they hide their profession and their actions. Many ex-military folks perceive this as part and parcel of the relationship between spooks and mercs. I doubt I need to tell you about the average grunt's opinion of intelligence agencies.

Now is this true out all such people and outfits? Not at all. But they are the ones who grab all the attention. And honestly, until the CIA and other such agencies stop using mercanaries to get around obstacles to "rendition" and "interviews", that trend of opinion is unlikely to change. Until the intelligence community stops hiring mercanaries to fight against democratic and republican revolutionaries struggling against sponsored dictatorships, this inertia of prejudice is unlikely to run out.

*meow*

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 67

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 12:02:27 AM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

Not wanting to join the military or fight doesn't make anybody a lazy ass.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

I can tolerate a lot of different things and whole lot of different people, but the one thing I cannot tolerate is lazy-ass people. So.... from my perspective, I would give them the choice to either join the military, or they could go pick lettuce in Yuma for two years.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 68

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 1:05:00 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

It's not my generation that is largely living off the government. I find your statement inaccurate, and insulting.

I can deal. Let me clarify my position. I think all generations dating back to FDR and the New Deal should have served two, maybe three years worth of mandatory government service in the form of the military, a social service position or some kind of labor program that subsidizes/off sets the agricultural industry's need for migrant labor.

Not only would it be good for the country and quell the need for migrant workers, but it would instill a very sincere work ethic that so many lack. I read the other day that when the average american gets hired for a job, the first questions they ask their employer are : ''How much do I get paid'', ''How much vacation do I get and when do I get to take it'' and ''Do I have to work weekends.'' - If you ask me, we might be able to point to this as just an example of the decline of the good oldfashioned work ethic.

I've posted before what I do for a living, so I'm amply qualified to tell you that in the last ten years, I have never seen so many able-bodied young people in the possession of a food stamp card. Sad but true.

quote:

If you want to help America, think up a plan to stop your generation from spending money like it's only made of paper.

I challenge{I really do} you to find another poster in the history of this board{Merc may be the only one}who has consistently preached and delivered the message of oversight, accountability and fiscal conservativeness as it applies to the function of government regards political topics.

My whole mantra has always been themed with fiscal responsibility. I can point to a whole litany of posts where I've constantly stayed on message regards the citizenry being seduced by the dark side of the status quo / Jones mentality.

quote:

What would help us, is a fiscally responsible government, and a middle class that puts money in savings, rather than giving in to the temptations of 80K German cars and big screens made in Japan that are two inches larger than then the one they already have.

I absolutely agree here. I drive a used honda accord and four cylinder jeep, by the way

I'll cut ya some huss, but I do find this part of your post to be at least a tad bit disingenuous. You chastise the middle class here for their desire to purchase/drive 80k German cars, yet two months ago you make a post in which you elaborate on wanting to purchase/own a Hummer H2 with all the bells and whistles. Please show me a better, more representative example of gluttony than someone who owns, wants to own, or drives a super gas-guzzling, inefficient vehicle like a Hummer!
http://www.collarchat.com/m_258158/mpage_1/key_Radio/tm.htm#259026

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 4/14/2006 1:17:25 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 69

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 1:42:28 AM

MsMacComb

Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
I can deal. Let me clarify my position. I think all generations dating back to FDR and the New Deal should have served two, maybe three years worth of mandatory government service in the form of the military, a social service position or some kind of labor program that subsidizes/off sets the agricultural industry's need for migrant labor.

Not only would it be good for the country and quell the need for migrant workers, but it would instill a very sincere work ethic that so many lack. I read the other day that when the average american gets hired for a job, the first questions they ask their employer are : ''How much do I get paid'', ''How much vacation do I get and when do I get to take it'' and ''Do I have to work weekends.'' - If you ask me, we might be able to point to this as just an example of the decline of the good oldfashioned work ethic.
- R

Or there could be one other option. Stop feeding the military industrial complex with new recruits for cannon fodder.
There is the hope that one day as more people become educated humanity will find a way to stop killing each other thereby negating the need for all this military buildup. And to assume that being in or of "service" to our country can only come via goose stepping around in snappy matching outfits is naive. Many consider the military to be simply one form of "welfare" wherein numerous people are paid or have their needs met paid for by the US Government aka "Me". Tying military service with migrant workers is vastly over simplifying and confusing two very separate issues. And anyone with a clue would ask pay and benefits at the start of a new job. That IS after all why they are working. To get paid. Many peoples ideal of a "good old fashioned work ethic" is other peoples ideal of being a fool. Just being a good little lacky and putting in 40 hours hasn't assured getting ahead or a retirement for about 50 years. That concept and practice has come and gone. Which is why now we have the "upper class" (BushCo and his Dem counterparts etc) secretly supporting and encouraging illegals to continue to cross the border for cheap labor as THEY are the ones profiting from it, contrary to what they may state during the frequent "photo-ops".

< Message edited by MsMacComb -- 4/14/2006 1:47:00 AM >

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 70

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 2:57:38 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

Or there could be one other option. Stop feeding the military industrial complex with new recruits for cannon fodder.

I'm way out in front of you : I posted in this regard many moons ago. As much as I'd like see it happen, it's not going to. When it gets to a point where the military is depleted and there's a lack of people enlisting, you'll see a provocation. A building, shopping mall, the Shriners hospital, will be blown up, or maybe even a dirty bomb will go off.... And then some foreign power in the Middle East will be blamed. Just like after 9-11 every Tom, Dick and Mary with stars and stripes on the brain will run to enlist.

quote:

Tying military service with migrant workers is vastly over simplifying and confusing two very separate issues.

You could make a case for that, sure. But I listened to Tom Tancredo{Who is going to bring attention to the issue by running for President} a week and half ago on the radio bring up this very idea - I like it.

quote:

And anyone with a clue would ask pay and benefits at the start of a new job. That IS after all why they are working. To get paid. Many peoples ideal of a "good old fashioned work ethic" is other peoples ideal of being a fool. Just being a good little lacky and putting in 40 hours hasn't assured getting ahead or a retirement for about 50 years

.

Yeah.... and this is exactly the mentality that exists which makes it possible for folks working for the New York transit authority as subway car cleaners to work 6 hrs a day, make 75k a year and quit at fifty, with a better retirement/compensation package than someone who went to school for eight years working in private industry. Eventhough I totally disagree with the hiring of illegal aliens, I truly understand why those doing so feel the way they do.

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 4/14/2006 3:17:43 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 71

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 4:13:21 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

There is the hope that one day as more people become educated humanity will find a way to stop killing each other thereby negating the need for all this military buildup.

Hope, yes. But that time is not here, and if anyone thinks dismantling the military in hope that all other nations would do the same and get all peace-loving is truly naive.

quote:

And to assume that being in or of "service" to our country can only come via goose stepping around in snappy matching outfits is naive.

Use of the term "goose-stepping" indicates that you equate the men and women in our armed forces as Nazis. Care to elaborate?

quote:

Many consider the military to be simply one form of "welfare" wherein numerous people are paid or have their needs met paid for by the US Government aka "Me".

*looks at our military in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere.........then looks at many on welfare here..... sees precious little in common*

quote:

And anyone with a clue would ask pay and benefits at the start of a new job. That IS after all why they are working. To get paid. Many peoples ideal of a "good old fashioned work ethic" is other peoples ideal of being a fool. Just being a good little lacky and putting in 40 hours hasn't assured getting ahead or a retirement for about 50 years. That concept and practice has come and gone. Which is why now we have the "upper class" (BushCo and his Dem counterparts etc) secretly supporting and encouraging illegals to continue to cross the border for cheap labor as THEY are the ones profiting from it, contrary to what they may state during the frequent "photo-ops".

I agree with the first sentence, I see nothing wrong with having an interest in pay and benefits. But I also think that "good old fashioned work ethic" matters greatly, and puts one in a good posistion to have a decent life. Nothing is "assured".

A personal story. I have worked mostly at jobs that required a bit of physical effort... roofing, pipefitting, and eventually at a plastics plant, where I made good money and had excellent benefits. After about 5 years there, I tore my back up. I ended up out of work for a long time. Attempting to avoid welfare, I spent all my savings, and went into debt. Sadly, I still found myself having to go on welfare to provide enough food for myself and my mom. This is where that work ethic came in... I knew I had to find a job that didn't require heavy lifting or constant standing. But, finding an employer proved difficult.

Finally, a friend told me I needed actual experience in an office to put on my resume. She could get me into a Justice of the Peace office doing free work for just that purpose, for "a couple of hours a week, whatever I wanted". Well, I went there and worked 40 hours a week for free, for a few months, until they were in a posistion to hire me with full pay and benefits. That "old fashioned work ethic" helped me out of a shitty period in my life, and has given me a number of contacts that told me if I ever needed a job, they'd love to hire me.

Level

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 72

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 5:05:14 AM

kisshou

Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

I'm way out in front of you : I posted in this regard many moons ago. As much as I'd like see it happen, it's not going to. When it gets to a point where the military is depleted and there's a lack of people enlisting, you'll see a provocation. A building, shopping mall, the Shriners hospital, will be blown up, or maybe even a dirty bomb will go off.... And then some foreign power in the Middle East will be blamed. Just like after 9-11 every Tom, Dick and Mary with stars and stripes on the brain will run to enlist.

Are you trying to imply that the US government was behind 9/11?

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 73

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 5:19:39 AM

ScooterTrash

Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

and how about the people who have no interest in service of any kind and would do a piss poor job because they're being forced to do something they don't wish to.

And this would be different than them working in the private sector how? This may come as a big surprise, but most people are not terribly compassionate about their jobs, they need a paycheck. At least the military has interesting ways to provide motivation (weg), should you be lacking it on your own.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

Post #: 74

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 5:31:47 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

Are you trying to imply that the US government was behind 9/11?

Nah.... what I'm saying is, no matter how big collective, they will never get rid of the military industrial complex.

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 75

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 1:14:17 PM

MsMacComb

Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Use of the term "goose-stepping" indicates that you equate the men and women in our armed forces as Nazis. Care to elaborate?
*looks at our military in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere.........then looks at many on welfare here..... sees precious little in common*
Level

I used the term loosely. Look when people go off on "all or none thinking" jingoistic diatribes others respond in kind. I did my years (was a MP

), in "non-war" years, a good deal of military service time is spent drinking beer. There are so many other ways to have strong national defense rather than having people just sit around on the tax payers dollar. Diplomacy would be one. Others in federal positions doing their jobs would be another. Briefly, if the FBI and CIA had been doing their jobs they could have stopped 9/11. So we never would have even had the need to send troops to Afghanistan and of course Iraq is simply a for profit venture from BushCo, Cheney and Halliburton and to settle an old grudge between the Bush's and Saddam and his deceased sons.
However, the single largest "slice" of our budget is military. The waste is on those $450 hammers and toilet seats. Golf course for retired generals. Lose of equipment, unnecessary travel, contracts that were given in the private sector that supply equipment that was never needed in the first place. So much of it is one huge entitlement program that benefits a small percent of people, and so much of it does very little to benefit the grunt on the ground, and those that spend the rest of their life homeless after being wounded in wars.

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 76

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 2:36:07 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Use of the term "goose-stepping" indicates that you equate the men and women in our armed forces as Nazis. Care to elaborate?
*looks at our military in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere.........then looks at many on welfare here..... sees precious little in common*
Level

However, the single largest "slice" of our budget is military. The waste is on those $450 hammers and toilet seats. Golf course for retired generals. Lose of equipment, unnecessary travel, contracts that were given in the private sector that supply equipment that was never needed in the first place. So much of it is one huge entitlement program that benefits a small percent of people, and so much of it does very little to benefit the grunt on the ground, and those that spend the rest of their life homeless after being wounded in wars.

You have my absolute agreement on that, at the least. The paying of so much money for those items, and the other forms of waste are fucking obscene. Those guilty of such behavior should face imprisonment for treason.

Level

< Message edited by Level -- 4/14/2006 2:59:50 PM >

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 77

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 4:04:45 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
I'll cut ya some huss, but I do find this part of your post to be at least a tad bit disingenuous. You chastise the middle class here for their desire to purchase/drive 80k German cars, yet two months ago you make a post in which you elaborate on wanting to purchase/own a Hummer H2 with all the bells and whistles. Please show me a better, more representative example of gluttony than someone who owns, wants to own, or drives a super gas-guzzling, inefficient vehicle like a Hummer!

Well, obviously I was mostly kidding about a Hummer. With my commute, the gas would eat me alive.

The two examples I used, were a car made in Germany and a television made in Japan. That I mentioned the countries, should be considered intentional. It's a misread to think that I expect all Americans to be on a sort of austerity program. That is just not realistic. People that work hard and make a good living, will want to buy nice things. I see nothing wrong with that ... but can't Americans buy things made in America, by American workers?

When I was closing in on my High School graduation, my foster parents told me they were going to get me a new car. At the time I was going to be attending college in California, and they wanted me to have a good ride (my old car was a serious beater). I asked for a Hummer, knowing I would never get one, and as a fallback asked for something like a Mustang, an F-150, or a Jeep Wrangler.

Well I ended up deciding to stay at home for school, which thrilled my foster parents to no end, and when graduation came, as a reward I got a very nice, brand new BMW. It's bad ass to be sure ... probably far more than I'm worth as a daughter ... and it's made in Germany. Now, I have nothing against Germany or German cars. I think every single person in Germany should own one!!!

So, to me ... a Hummer is a much better choice for an American, than a BMW, or even a Honda Civic.

I do have one question though, and it seems to be the one that all the pro-service people are avoiding. How will we pay for it? Two years of service would add eleven million people to the government payroll. That's eleven million more paychecks for the goverment to cut, every year. Some have given answers like "other countries do it", but that isn't really an answer. Those examples are small countries, and the numbers are not so frightening.

So, since you are for it, get out your calculator, multiply 30K (wages, upkeep, training, logistics, etc ...) by eleven million (330 billion dollars, by the way), and tell us what programs you would cut that would raise that kind of money?

Lets go on the cheap, and not pay these people at all ... just provide upkeep, training, logistics, etc ... We should be able to get away with 10K a year per person for that. That's only 110 billing dollars a year. What a great deal!!!! Please let us know what programs you are going to cut, that will equal that kind of money?

Unless of course, you're for higher taxation to raise it.

P.S. This is all in good fun. I have always enjoyed your posts. Please don't take my assertive debate style, as harshness.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 78

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 4:57:48 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnockerBockers

What SAS? The British 22nd Special Air Service Regiment or its brother counterpart the Australian Special Air service. The limies now also have the Special Reconnaissance Regiment, 148 meiktila battery RA, Spinx Battery RA, The RM Special Boat Service(battalion size),the RM Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre(Company size), 14 Intelligence Company(tri service unit where all ranks relinquish their rank and dont hold rank and elect their own detachment commanders during the 2 year posting).

Special Air Servive, Australian Regular Army.. I resigned the Queen's Commission to go to Nam with the US SF. Yep we still call it as the Queen's Commission and will continue to do so unless the Republicans here make Aussie a republic at which time I shall be leaving the country of my birth and taking citizenship in another.. (My first loyalty is to the British Crown and blood ties me to the House of Winsor in a devious and tenuous way)..

Loyal to the Crown? Hmm, that's funny, I never pictured you advocating the restoration of the Stuarts.

*meow*

Now you have me curious, what did you picture me advocating? My Clan (Scottish) fought every battle alongside the Stuarts, and suffer for it too.. On the Irish side we are of Stuart Blood with direct blood ties to the Clan Leadership there too. However the other ties I mentioned with The House of Winsor are closest vie my Prussian and Danish blood lines. Its highly convoluted and tenuous. However were the Stuarts to be restored, my position in the hierachial sceme of things would be clearer and more elevated...

< Message edited by IronBear -- 4/14/2006 4:58:40 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to ArtCatDom)

Post #: 79

RE: Should Compulsory Military Service be a part of Cit... - 4/14/2006 8:59:01 PM

ArtCatDom

Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Now you have me curious, what did you picture me advocating? My Clan (Scottish) fought every battle alongside the Stuarts, and suffer for it too.. On the Irish side we are of Stuart Blood with direct blood ties to the Clan Leadership there too. However the other ties I mentioned with The House of Winsor are closest vie my Prussian and Danish blood lines. Its highly convoluted and tenuous. However were the Stuarts to be restored, my position in the hierachial sceme of things would be clearer and more elevated...

All of a sudden, I like you so much more. ;)

(My mother was a Royal Campbell, a sympathizer of the Republic (Ireland) and a Scottish nationalist. that should explain a bit.)

*meow*

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 80

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