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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 11:51:47 AM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Here, I'm sorry, but you are off the mark. It isn't courageous to stand by and accept an otherwise "healthy" person's decision to die or let someone kill them. It is plain and simple, cowardice. It is no different than walking away from a woman being brutalized by her spouse but refuses to leave.
I gather that you are not in favor of legalized suicide either? I have to tell you that I also don't agree with Dame Calla's black and white stance on this. I can, if I dig deep enough into my imagination, think of things that two consenting people could get up to that I would just plain not allow (meaning I'd be willing to support laws against). But simply killing oneself via starvation isn't going to make that list.

So fundamentally then what happens is I'm forced to think about where the line is. And what that means is that other people with differing viewpoints than my own are also thinking about where the line is. All of which makes this a very important and very difficult discussion. Let's remember that according to the society you're referencing so strongly, sadism is not allowed... we call it assault and battery and possibly also domestic violence. You do realize that S/m could also be reasonably viewed as consenting to torture, right?

I agree that society, as a whole, has a right to determine what it will allow as acceptable. I'd just like to be very, very careful where I draw those lines (and this from a non-kinky, non-sadist, really pretty vanilla in every sort of way kind of guy).


Actually you would be wrong about the legalized suicide issue. People don't discuss legalizing suicide for people who are "depressed" but rather who are suffering from a terminal illness, and there are a great many criteria that would be put in place as safety measures. Those safety measures and making sure that it can't somehow be misapplied is one of the problems in getting it legalized.

While for the most part sadism is "not allowed," the cases that have been publicly tried and the extremists over on this side complain about weren't about consensual behavior, but rather typically about the people who, like the moron calling himself master in this case have gone too far.

The main point is that far too many people on this side of the fence (the kinky side), have somehow gone to a place where they believe that the appropriate way to be tolerant is to be tolerant of everything. THAT is the slippery slope, not the concept of having the balls to say to the community that something is going to far.

YOU do realize that if BDSM play were ever to be totally accepted and legalized that there would be safeguards put in place to make sure that situations like this one didn't occur, much like the safeguards they are looking for with legalized suicide. Yes, there is the camp that feels suicide of any type is just wrong, just like there are those that feel BDSM in any form is just wrong. But in order for either to become accepted, those safeguards are necessary to make sure that abuse doesn't occur. Just because someone "consents" doesn't necessarily mean that actual abuse is not happening, to think otherwise, one might as well scream from the rooftops that they have no common sense at all.

At the end of the day, the people who seem to think that they should be tolerant or accepting of everything others are doing are doing more harm to way society as a hole views BDSM, and they foolishly think they are helping it. They perpetuate the concept that all "kinksters" are a bunch of crazy people who have no rational thought. The discussion has been had around here many times over many different issues that just because you are kinky doesn't mean you lack morals and values. The "I'm ok, your ok, our kinks are just different" concept can only go so far.

People that are unable to draw that line are a hinderance to both the BDSM community and society as a whole.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 12:18:32 PM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
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Status: offline 		i agree with anarexia being a disorder but i think it might be well managed in a kinky sort of way... and in that case it is very important as Ialdabaoth pointed out that the 'controller' knows exactly what they are doing and have the life of the sub as their goal, not their death

i have no idea about absolute minimum weight or even how many calories there is in anything at all but many people engage with this eating disorder stuff in a 'normal' sort of way... there is simply no-way these things can be 'regulated'... and to me it seems that most 'vanillla' people are involved in one kink or another without them even giving it a second thought.

i do not really see 'us' as a seperate bdsm community, i just see society and there are many many weirdos... i think i am one too

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 12:18:59 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Since the thread "pro-cancer and pro-AIDS as kinks" disappered, I will, once again state my opinion here.

I think that pro-anorexia is not much different from pro-cancer and if we accept the first we are not far from accepting the second.
Finally, my opinion is that BOTH pro-anorexia and pro-cancer can not and should not be accepted as kinks, and these practices should not be treated as a part of BDSM.
We should stop saying "to each their own" when it comes to things such as pro-anorexia and pro-cancer and we should openly oppose them.
If we are unable to physically prevent people from engaging in such activities, we should at least openly state our opposition to such practices.
We should stop calling it kink.  This is not kink, this is simply type of  terrible shit that some people do - if we can't prevent them - we should at least be able to freely state our disapproval and discourage others from engaging in such practices.


SNot... the reason the likes of Jeffff and I get so irritated by your posts, is that you're either stating the fucking obvious (as above) or bandying about nonsensical propositions and factoids.

I happen agree with you here - there are clear similarities between pro-anorexia and pro-cancer... indeed those similarities would be obvious to a seven year old (provided they knew what the acronyms actually meant). It's that fucking obviousness, that annoys me about this.

I don't agree that these could not be kinks - of course they can... pretty much anything can be a kink.

I do agree that they shouldn't be allowed -> there are some nasty nasty "kinks" that are definitely "kinks" which ought to be illegal.

Now... if you want to have an intelligent discussion -- why don't we talk about "where do you draw the line" - That one would produce some nice thoughtful debate, and probably plenty of controversy... But you don't appear to consider your posts before you make them, and they often come across as crass or nonsensical.


What I have seen of SN's posts, I think they are typically a bunch of nonsense, but here he makes a valid point that does nothing but echo what I have said.

Yes, anything can be a kink but the line needs to be drawn somewhere, and people need to have the balls to say where they believe that line should be instead of ignorantly rambling along the "not my thing but have at it," path.

This particular situation could easily be made acceptable. Models are taller than 5'7" typically, and quite thin. We are told that this woman was, at the beginning, a healthy 140 pounds. There are many models her height who are about 110. Personally I find this to be too thin, but it can be done and maintained in a healthy manner. One bowl of rice a day, one piece of chicken a week? We hear nothing about a grueling exercise regimen (which is part of anorexia). Add to that bowl of rice, a small piece of chicken or fish, a salad with no dressing, and a piece of fruit for breakfast, and while still less than the recommended amount of calories per day, it becomes at least a little bit healthier.

There is a huge difference between wanting to control her weight at a questionably healthy 110, and wanting to see if you can get her to waste away to nothing. At 67 pounds, this woman has zero body fat, and really her weight consists of nothing but the weight of her bones and her skin and organs. She has no muscle mass. As this continues, this woman will lose the ability to walk, her organs will shut down and fail. She will be completely bed ridden. What is this moron calling himself master going to do then? Will he find no further use for her and turn her out to go back to her family, so they can watch her die? Will he suddenly fear for his own future freedom because of his part in this and try to save her? Let's be real, we all know it is likely the former, not the latter.

So why then, would it ever be ok to say they were enjoying their personal kink and no one should step in and try to do something because they are all consenting adults? This is something that we are all told is happening, we aren't personally witnessing it. Interestingly enough, those in these people's community (if they have one) who ARE witnessing it, can be legally charged when this woman dies as well as the moron who caused it. No it isn't the typical thing that is done, but it is quite possible. In a situation like this, were I the prosecutor, I would go after some of those people who stood by and watched without helping. I would do so to make the point that the concept being bandied about around here is ridiculous and dangerous. It is almost a guaranteed conviction of the moron, not so much the "sideliners." But it would certainly serve to help those who are unable to do so on their own, know where to draw that line they seem to be unable to draw.

(in reply to crazyml)
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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 12:26:34 PM   
ranja


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Status: offline 		i still do not really see the possibility of the master being prosecuted or regulated... sure the parents might get her into a hospital to force feed her for a while, or maybe even a mental hospital where she might get therapy to get a handle on her disorder, but in the end it is indeed the girl who has to get control of her own problem... and the weirdo master will most likely find another girl keen to starve herself.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 12:52:49 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

i still do not really see the possibility of the master being prosecuted or regulated... sure the parents might get her into a hospital to force feed her for a while, or maybe even a mental hospital where she might get therapy to get a handle on her disorder, but in the end it is indeed the girl who has to get control of her own problem... and the weirdo master will most likely find another girl keen to starve herself.


They would need to prove that he instigated the practice with the intent to harm. The prosecution would need solid evidence that she bore no behavior prior to their relationship that could be called into question. And even then, the precepts of pro-ana are markedly different. Its ideology is steeped in choice and unless she was forcibly made to do everything it took to maintain this against her will, it may not be the slam dunk some are suggesting. If she dies it could skew a jury, but stranger verdicts have come down.

B/P alone could upset the whole thing.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 1:02:20 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Yes, anything can be a kink but the line needs to be drawn somewhere, and people need to have the balls to say where they believe that line should be instead of ignorantly rambling along the "not my thing but have at it," path.



Absolutely!

Personally, it's not so much a question of "balls" (I honestly don't mind making a fool of myself), it's the fact that I find it fantastically difficult to draw that line...

But here's a start...

I would actively intervene if I saw someone doing something to someone that I believed likely to cause their death.

I would intervene if I believed that someone was consenting to have something done to them that I believed you would have to be out of your mind to consent to AND that I believed likely to cause lasting harm.

A couple of observations before I go on - The "AND" is important, it would have to satisfy both conditions. Nope, I'm not qualified to make a diagnosis of someone's mental capacity, nor do I think that I ought to be. Nope, I'm not qualified to make a judgement as to what would cause lasting harm.

I would intervene in this situation on the basis that, if I'm wrong, then the worst that has happened is that I look like a jackass; if I'm right I've prevented something from happening that should not happen.

So... now I've made it more complex - Now I have to draw two lines - "what constitutes mad?" and "what constitutes lasting harm?".

They're slightly linked (in that, I believe that a willingness to let someone kill you and eat you would definitely satisfy the lasting harm category, and I would regard it as pretty solid proof that the person met the "mad" test too).

I'm really struggling to come up with a reliable test that I can define, so I'll resort to a couple of examples...

the person who wants his balls to be crushed in a vice till they're pulverised - Yip - mad + lasting harm
the person who wants implants so that they look like a lizard - Nope. not mad (quirky).
the person who needs a regular caning - They may be mad (they may have serious self worth issues etc etc) but bruises heal
the person who needs to be beaten to within an inch of their life - Yip, mad and lasting harm.

So there it is... my best shot at explaining where I put the line.

Before I hit "OK" - I want to stress that I don't think I have a god given right to make these judgements, or that my judgement is sound. All I've done is try to state what I'd say if I was asked the question..

I also know that many will regard my line as way too restrictive - "who the fuck am I to tell people what they can do with their lives afteral?" - My only answer is, "Yep you're right, I've no right to impose my definitions on other people, but I still reserve the right to express my opinion and, if necessary, intervene if I feel strongly enough about it."


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 1:05:20 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

They would need to prove that he instigated the practice with the intent to harm. The prosecution would need solid evidence that she bore no behavior prior to their relationship that could be called into question. And even then, the precepts of pro-ana are markedly different. Its ideology is steeped in choice and unless she was forcibly made to do everything it took to maintain this against her will, it may not be the slam dunk some are suggesting. If she dies it could skew a jury, but stranger verdicts have come down.

B/P alone could upset the whole thing.

~porcelaine



I agree with you on this. Certainly the pro-ana ideology is couched in the concept of "choice".

Personally - if I were on the jury, I'd be making a passionate case for the Dominant partner to be found guilty though...

(in reply to porcelaine)
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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 1:18:21 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

i still do not really see the possibility of the master being prosecuted or regulated... sure the parents might get her into a hospital to force feed her for a while, or maybe even a mental hospital where she might get therapy to get a handle on her disorder, but in the end it is indeed the girl who has to get control of her own problem... and the weirdo master will most likely find another girl keen to starve herself.


They would need to prove that he instigated the practice with the intent to harm. The prosecution would need solid evidence that she bore no behavior prior to their relationship that could be called into question. And even then, the precepts of pro-ana are markedly different. Its ideology is steeped in choice and unless she was forcibly made to do everything it took to maintain this against her will, it may not be the slam dunk some are suggesting. If she dies it could skew a jury, but stranger verdicts have come down.

B/P alone could upset the whole thing.

~porcelaine



Actually, because this is occurring within the confines of an M/s relationship, and the reality that her family would, in all likelihood, be more than willing to testify about her history, and more importantly willing and able to provide photographic proof that there is no history, the concept that this moron would have a great chance at escaping prosecution is quite unlikely.

The story we are given is that SHE isn't pro-ana, her moron is, and she is just obeying. So the ideology, concepts and thought process of the pro-ana is completely out the window.

Regardless of that, anorexia is a recognized illness, both physical and mental, so the "choice" of the pro ana will never be seen as being mentally competent.

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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 1:19:05 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I also know that many will regard my line as way too restrictive - "who the fuck am I to tell people what they can do with their lives afteral?" - My only answer is, "Yep you're right, I've no right to impose my definitions on other people, but I still reserve the right to express my opinion and, if necessary, intervene if I feel strongly enough about it."


This is why I can't say it's an inappropriate lifestyle as a whole. Implementing restrictive eating and fitness practices to maintain a certain measure of slenderness that wouldn't impair the practitioner's health is not the same as one who whittles down to nothingness. There are two divides within ana and some merely wish to maintain a specific aesthetic appearance. Can I honestly say they're incorrect in their desire to do so? I'm not willing to take that line. On the other hand I cannot say in good conscience that self-emaciation is a good thing either.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 1:20:08 PM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I fucking love anteaters, they rock.


Ditto.

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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 1:30:00 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Actually, because this is occurring within the confines of an M/s relationship, and the reality that her family would, in all likelihood, be more than willing to testify about her history, and more importantly willing and able to provide photographic proof that there is no history, the concept that this moron would have a great chance at escaping prosecution is quite unlikely.


Images cannot prove that she never engaged in binge and purge practices. Or intentionally altered her eating patterns or participated in excessive activities to balance input and output.

quote:

The story we are given is that SHE isn't pro-ana, her moron is, and she is just obeying. So the ideology, concepts and thought process of the pro-ana is completely out the window.


She came into this situation without a history of anorexia as far as we know. You don't become pro-ana without some measure of predisposition to what the lifestyle requires for continued adherence. That includes mental, emotional, and physical activities that are representative of what one might do as an ana lifestyler. And you surely don't become 67 pounds unless you had quite a bit of that lurking in your head.

quote:

Regardless of that, anorexia is a recognized illness, both physical and mental, so the "choice" of the pro ana will never be seen as being mentally competent.


Is it easier to place the blame on the dominant than to recognize that the desire may have always been present but unfulfilled?

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 1:40:44 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		crazyml,

Yes, I have seen through your posts that you have no problem speaking up about your viewpoint and have no doubt that you would step in whenever felt it necessary. I'm sure you realize that there are many around here who would instead take the position of "I'm not into that, so I don't want to see it, but they can have their fun," and turn and walk away.

Your examples were great.

quote:


the person who wants his balls to be crushed in a vice till they're pulverised - Yip - mad + lasting harm
the person who wants implants so that they look like a lizard - Nope. not mad (quirky).
the person who needs a regular caning - They may be mad (they may have serious self worth issues etc etc) but bruises heal
the person who needs to be beaten to within an inch of their life - Yip, mad and lasting harm.


If we look at your first and last examples (those where you feel it appropriate to intervene), the other half of the equation, the person willing to deliver on those wishes needs examining as well. Because that person isn't technically going to suffer lasting harm, other than the potential legal ramifications. But what is going on in THEIR head to consider fufilling these "desires" for the person wanting them?

Admittedly, it can be difficult to draw that line, and we have nothing beyond our own morals, values and judgements to use to draw that line. But think about this....the same people who will rip apart the guy who is cheating on his wife to have his kinky needs met are often the same ones who will telll the guy who wants his testicles pulverized (or cut off, cooked and forced to eat them) that as long as he has evaluated the risks involved, and is accepting of those risks to go for it. So the cheater is a lying, untrustworthy piece of shit, but the other guy is perfectly sane and needs no saving from himself. The problem is that people can't seem to see the contradiction in their own thought process. All choices, all actions, even sub categories of actions are not equal, and to try to justify something like this with the concept that they are is ridiculous.

(in reply to crazyml)
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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 1:43:55 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

If we look at your first and last examples (those where you feel it appropriate to intervene), the other half of the equation, the person willing to deliver on those wishes needs examining as well. Because that person isn't technically going to suffer lasting harm, other than the potential legal ramifications. But what is going on in THEIR head to consider fufilling these "desires" for the person wanting them?



Oh yes - absolutely!

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 1:52:46 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

Images cannot prove that she never engaged in binge and purge practices. Or intentionally altered her eating patterns or participated in excessive activities to balance input and output.


Actually, years of images and medical reports that her parents would have would. She is only 20 years old, her parents have that information and can prove it.

quote:


She came into this situation without a history of anorexia as far as we know. You don't become pro-ana without some measure of predisposition to what the lifestyle requires for continued adherence. That includes mental, emotional, and physical activities that are representative of what one might do as an ana lifestyler. And you surely don't become 67 pounds unless you had quite a bit of that lurking in your head.


Actually if you read the OP's posts, she DIDN'T come into this with the pre-disposition. Perhaps she thought it would be cool, perhaps it was the overwhelming desire to find a master and do anything necessary to achieve that.

quote:


Well, the interesting thing that I found in speaking with her is that this is not something that is being fueled by something within her, the weight loss that is. Her only motivator here seems to be her desire to please him. In fact, she said that she thinks her weight now makes her look very sick. She said that they have been together for just over a year and prior to that she had no history of any eating disorder and weighed 145 when she met him. So it would seem to me that a lot of the common mindset found in anorexia is not there. I honestly don't know how you could convince yourself to override the body and mind's natural sense of self preservation, which I figure has to be screaming pretty loudy at this point in her...although I don't know that for sure.


I would be interested to know how you came to the conclusion that she was this way before based on the bolded statement of the OP. It would seem that you are discounting the possibility that any "moron" (master) could have that kind of control. You are jumping to a conclusion that is contradicted by the information we are given. So again, I reiterate the fact that the woman in the situation is NOT pro-ana, but rather a brainwashed, misguided slave being slowly killed by the moron she calls master.


quote:


Is it easier to place the blame on the dominant than to recognize that the desire may have always been present but unfulfilled?

~porcelaine



All of your misguided presumptions aside, it isn't a matter of it being "easier" to place the blame on the moron. It is, however, an important point that a "master" should be protect his property. So when that one very vital doctrine of M/s is so blatently violated, yes, he takes blame.

Should a 20 year old girl who is too young, insecure and obviously lacking in self esteem be held accountable for allowing this moron to destroy her life this way? Of course.

But the point of this whole post was whether or not it was a kink and whether it would be appropriate to step in and attempt to save this girl from the moron and, indeed from herself.

What you have presented us with is a lot of semi factual information supporting the pro-ana/pro-mia lifestyle, itself nothing more than something that encourages many women (mostly young) to not seek help for their illness.

(in reply to porcelaine)
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RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 1:53:22 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Status: offline 		With due respect to Lafayette Lady, SocratesNot and crazyml, I understand your points, and I don't disagree with them. As I mentioned in one of my earliest posts on this subject, were an individual in this situation to come to me for ministerial support, I would be referring hir to psychosocial, medical, and legal professionals who could provide an accurate evaluation of the person's ability to consent, and who could provide the tools to assure that, if the resources given were accessed, this individual could do what it is that xhe was trying to do without causing lasting harm to hirself (and, fortunately, my resources are kink-aware, and could also work within the framework of the authority dynamic already in place).

Where we diverge, I think, is that, if these individuals were offered the opportunity to have this advice, and then chose to go on their merry way without using it, I would let it go, because, in the end, my strongest belief is that people should absolutely have the right to do what they wish with their own bodies and consent to whatever it is that they choose, once they're of the age of majority and legally allowed to do so... and that is regardless of whether I find it stupid, dangerous, ill-considered or otherwise.

Informationally, I am pro-suicide, and pro-choice on issues of abstaining from treatment for illnesses like cancer and AIDS. I believe wholeheartedly and without reservation that, once full disclosure of outcomes, risks, etc., are spelled out, it is absolutely the right of the individual to make those choices. Compelling someone else by manipulation or force into either refusing or accepting treatment, however, falls into the same category for me as defiance of free will (and that holds for me whether the person doing the manipulation/coercion is a family member, minister, doctor, keeper, or legislator--and, informationally, also applies to those individuals who would ignore a relative's advanced directive or DNR to "save them from their decision"). At the top of the list of rights we have as human beings, and above and beyond any responsibilities we have to any other adult or our community at large, we must have absolute sovereignty over our own bodies and what we allow or do not allow to be done to them. Period.

On a purely personal note, I have medical directives in place regarding my own health, including directives that assure that I will receive nothing but pain management and hydration should I become "terminal", and my family know and respect that, should my body begin to fail again, I will not accept treatment other than palliative/comfort care. I have asked them to be present if they can do so comfortably, but have accepted that, at the time that this comes up, they may not be able to deal with having to watch me slip away, and I -completely- respect that reality. I would rather forgo having them at my side than put them in a position where they would feel completely disempowered by the choices I've made, without having any recourse to "fix" me. Though all of my offspring have promised that they understand and absolutely respect my preferences, I have not required that they make any -promise- of that, since I know that they may feel completely differently when the time comes. I have accepted that as an adult. While my saplings were still dependent on me, my directive indicated that I would fight on until the point where we reached diminishing returns and I was no longer able to care for the offspring anyway and was relegated to an institution... at which point, my feeling, for myself, is to end both my misery and theirs as quickly as possible, so that they might go on with their lives.

I do not espouse any philosophy that I am unwilling to fully embrace myself, so my commentary here regarding those individuals who choose such means as pro-ana and/or pro-mia to express their preferences about their own bodies is, for me, not only consistent, but perhaps one of the most compelling philosophies under which I exist. To call into question my courage in making such a stand shows a lack of compassion for another's point of view. While we may not agree, I can only presume that, in speaking and acting on your principles regarding how you would respond to such behaviors if they were seen in your community, you are following the right precedents -for you-. While it may not be right for me, I would fight to the death for your right to be able to continue to express your philosophical views and act on them accordingly... it seems reasonable that I should be able to expect the same without the impugning of my character.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 6/19/2010 1:54:23 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 1:57:51 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I wonder if there is not some sort of a depraved indifference law that could be applied to the Dom in this case.

I thin many of the folks out here are incredibly depraved now just throw in the right amount of indifference and I believe you might have a case worth prosecuting.

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(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 2:05:31 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Calla,

We are actually of the same belief when it comes to the idea of someone not wanting to accept treatment for a terminal illness. The problem is that you don't seem to allow for the depressed person who just feels nothing would ever get better and wants to end it all. They are phsycially healthy, but mentally depressed. Do you feel they are making a "rational" decision to blow their brains out, or do you do what is necessary to "force" upon them the psychiatric care they need.

This is the same type of situation, when you add to that what I keep repeating and everyone seems to be completely missing. It wasn't THIS girl's desire to become pro-ana. It was this girl's desire to be the perfect, obedient slave, and her ability to decide who to serve is sorely lacking.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 2:08:30 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Actually, years of images and medical reports that her parents would have would. She is only 20 years old, her parents have that information and can prove it.


I think you're missing the point of that comment. Just because there have been no changes in her physical appearance or medical clues that one can pinpoint doesn't mean she never did it.

quote:

I honestly don't know how you could convince yourself to override the body and mind's natural sense of self preservation, which I figure has to be screaming pretty loudy at this point in her...although I don't know that for sure.


Yes, how would you override that for a long period of time?

quote:

I would be interested to know how you came to the conclusion that she was this way before based on the bolded statement of the OP. It would seem that you are discounting the possibility that any "moron" (master) could have that kind of control. You are jumping to a conclusion that is contradicted by the information we are given. So again, I reiterate the fact that the woman in the situation is NOT pro-ana, but rather a brainwashed, misguided slave being slowly killed by the moron she calls master.


No, I'm saying that he didn't do it all by himself. Something you refuse to recognize because you view the choice element as mental incompetence. They had a conversation on the telephone. We can't possibly know what was in that woman's head before she met him. What I do know is most people don't get to 67 pounds without some serious internal disconnections. And even if he did put her on this path, there was still something off that allowed her to stay with him and continue. So we're back to the same thing. It takes two.

quote:

What you have presented us with is a lot of semi factual information supporting the pro-ana/pro-mia lifestyle, itself nothing more than something that encourages many women (mostly young) to not seek help for their illness.


You're making sweeping assumptions. I have never promoted this way of living or advocated its practice. What I have said is that the people involved are often willing participants. The mere fact you have trouble swallowing that reality is your problem, not mine. It doesn't make the reality less factual, save in your mind.

~porcelaine


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His will; my fate.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 2:10:19 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Calla,

Crikey! I wouldn't dream of impugning your character.

And likewise - I'd be willing to fight for your right to express your views and act on them

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks - 6/19/2010 2:21:52 PM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The main point is that far too many people on this side of the fence (the kinky side), have somehow gone to a place where they believe that the appropriate way to be tolerant is to be tolerant of everything.


Look, you can be an armchair BDSM protector all you want, Lafayette, but until YOU are actually calling the cops on someone you feel is being abusive in a kink relationship, you're all theory. How often have you actually intervened on behalf of someone IRL you feel is being victimized?

IMO, your views are highly simplistic. Just because someone doesn't agree with your specific boundaries doesn't mean they tolerate everything. There's arguing on a board, there is actually knowing this starving girl and intervening, there is gathering more data on the situation, there is acting firmly on behalf of a loved one. In your posts it seems as if all of these actions are equally significant to you. I don't think they are. Moralizing and acting on those morals are worlds apart.

Though, as I said before, I believe the starvation can be within the realm of kink, if it was my twenty-year old child who was being forced to eat 1/2 cup of rice a day, I'd stop at nothing to protect her. In my family, we call that the Mom SWAT team.

January

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[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]




(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 120
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