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RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:03:46 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
Insult me all you want, a bullying and rude demand for me to do anything only works for the men and women in black dresses (and Jeffff).


Men and women in black dresses? I seriously have no idea what you're on about here so go ahead and have fun with that, fucking weirdo.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:04:08 PM   
Jasmineinbloom


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/24/2010
Status: offline 		Some people just aren't as fortunate as others financially, scholastically, access to emotional or nurturing support systems. Sometimes their kids are all they have. Personally, I'd prefer to take the compassionate road in trying to figure a way to help a young girl or woman feel more empowered and loved as a human being. These women for the most part are used to being treated badly.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:05:27 PM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline 		laurell3,

Tell him you've said your piece and you've counted to 3, hand him this, then see what happens.  It worked for Holly Hunter.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

<-- Easily amused.
<-- Easily impressed.

Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:05:44 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmineinbloom

Some people just aren't as fortunate as others financially, scholastically, access to emotional or nurturing support systems. Sometimes their kids are all they have. Personally, I'd prefer to take the compassionate road in trying to figure a way to help a young girl or woman feel more empowered and loved as a human being. These women for the most part are used to being treated badly.


That's cool. I'm probably a sociopath, really. I don't care about people unless I know them and like them. I just look at this in terms of optimal solutions.

(in reply to Jasmineinbloom)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:11:11 PM   
Jasmineinbloom


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/24/2010
Status: offline 		(smile) I don't think you're sociopathic. Many people feel as you do. Optimal to me means that the solution needs to be long standing. Sterilization will not solve the basic need for a young girl or woman to experience the love she is missing via a baby of her own who will love her unconditionally.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:13:06 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmineinbloom

(smile) I don't think you're sociopathic. Many people feel as you do. Optimal to me means that the solution needs to be long standing. Sterilization will not solve the basic need for a young girl or woman to experience the love she is missing via a baby of her own who will love her unconditionally.


IMO having someone to love you unconditionally is a very bad reason to have a kid.

Especially if you're unable to provide a stable environment for that kid - if it ends up hating you for that then you're screwed.

(in reply to Jasmineinbloom)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:15:28 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		sex happens....

it just does....

any solution involving people not having sex is never going to work.

Now letting UMs go without, is no solution either.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Jasmineinbloom)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:16:32 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

sex happens....

it just does....

any solution involving people not having sex is never going to work.

Now letting UMs go without, is no solution either.


So...sterilization then?


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:19:13 PM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline 		What's a UM?

_____________________________

<-- Easily amused.
<-- Easily impressed.

Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:19:17 PM   
Jasmineinbloom


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/24/2010
Status: offline 		I agree. And you're right. That's why it's important to help these girls prior to them becoming pregnant. But I don't think these mothers should be thrown to the curb, or made to feel less than human.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:22:05 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

What's a UM?



It's what we used to refer to as a child before moderation eased up. Underage Minor.

Thanks for the dress, I'd like to see a few judges in that...haha.

LadyC you have mail.


I'm quite serious about the number of programs that are designed for laypersons to participate in and better the lives of these children. You all should look into them if you're really concerned about the kids. Change starts with action, not tossing around theories on the internet and I've seen first hand the benefit a good mentor can bring to an underprivleged child's life and well-being.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to DarlingSavage)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:23:37 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

sex happens....

it just does....

any solution involving people not having sex is never going to work.

Now letting UMs go without, is no solution either.


So...sterilization then?



Well,I got the big 'V' some years ago,so I`m do`n my part.

Your turn......

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:25:48 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

What's a UM?



It's what we used to refer to as a child before moderation eased up. Underage Minor.

Thanks for the dress, I'd like to see a few judges in that...haha.

LadyC you have mail.


I'm quite serious about the number of programs that are designed for laypersons to participate in and better the lives of these children. You all should look into them if you're really concerned about the kids. Change starts with action, not tossing around theories on the internet and I've seen first hand the benefit a good mentor can bring to an underprivleged child's life and well-being.

Especially UMs of mothers in prison.It`s truly tragic what`s happening to those families.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:27:56 PM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

sex happens....

it just does....

any solution involving people not having sex is never going to work.

Now letting UMs go without, is no solution either.


So...sterilization then?




Here is what no one wants to get into because it is way off topic:
Eugenics was used in the United States until it was outlawed  in the 1960's I beleive. It involved forced sterilization and was used to control (or eliminate depending on who you ask) the population of poor, disabled and minorities in American society. It was indeed legal and it was forced. It was widely used and California had the highest number of forced sterilizations. It was so efficient that the Nazies at the Nuremburg  trials praised us and called the US their "inspiration" for their genocide attempt on the Jews.

With that in mind how many poor and minorities do you think are going to "volunteer" for this given the fact that the govn't has already pretty much tried to "off them" once before with sterilization.  And human rights activists would never let this kind of law pass by them; not to mention the ACLU.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:28:31 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Well,I got the big 'V' some years ago,so I`m do`n my part.

Your turn......


My husband got a V too.

As for me, I'd totally get a hysterectomy, just to end my evil PCOS blood rage, if it weren't for the fact that my insane hormonal mood swings would be worse if I induced menopause, and I don't want to be a reject divorcee before my 27th birthday.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:28:39 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		There's a program for that too!

The problem is, these great theories aren't realized because there aren't enough volunteers willing to actually do anything to help. Our local mentor program has over a year waiting list.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:31:49 PM   
Jasmineinbloom


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/24/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

What's a UM?

It's what we used to refer to as a child before moderation eased up. Underage Minor.

Thanks for the dress, I'd like to see a few judges in that...haha.

LadyC you have mail.


I'm quite serious about the number of programs that are designed for laypersons to participate in and better the lives of these children. You all should look into them if you're really concerned about the kids. Change starts with action, not tossing around theories on the internet and I've seen first hand the benefit a good mentor can bring to an underprivleged child's life and well-being.


Bravo! Exactly! Hands on sincere positive support.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:35:59 PM   
Jasmineinbloom


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/24/2010
Status: offline 		I've mentored young mothers who were not aware that holding a baby means comfort, not spoiling. It just takes time and patience to turn someone's life around for the better.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:36:42 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

Here is what no one wants to get into because it is way off topic:
Eugenics was used in the United States until it was outlawed  in the 1960's I beleive. It involved forced sterilization and was used to control (or eliminate depending on who you ask) the population of poor, disabled and minorities in American society. It was indeed legal and it was forced. It was widely used and California had the highest number of forced sterilizations. It was so efficient that the Nazies at the Nuremburg  trials praised us and called the US their "inspiration" for their genocide attempt on the Jews.

With that in mind how many poor and minorities do you think are going to "volunteer" for this given the fact that the govn't has already pretty much tried to "off them" once before with sterilization.  And human rights activists would never let this kind of law pass by them; not to mention the ACLU.


Yeah I really don't think it's feasible, or even relevant, because the number of career "welfare queens" is only a small percentage of mothers that receive benefits. But I don't have any sort of horrible visceral reaction to it either. I genuinely do not understand why someone would want to have more kids if they're unable to take care of the ones they already have. And I'm not talking about intentionally getting pregnant, just...why keep your reproductive organs if you know that having more kids is just going to make life harder for both yourself and your children?

(in reply to LadyCimarron)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:38:20 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmineinbloom

I've mentored young mothers who were not aware that holding a baby means comfort, not spoiling. It just takes time and patience to turn someone's life around for the better.



It's really amazing how some of these kids just taking them to a free day at the children's museum or he park is the highlight of their year. It's not difficult to make a difference with them. It only takes action. By the way, in the training they stress NOT spending money on them, the goal is to better their lives without fostering an economic focus in the relationship.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Jasmineinbloom)
Profile   Post #: 120
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