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RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:38:55 PM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmineinbloom

I've mentored young mothers who were not aware that holding a baby means comfort, not spoiling. It just takes time and patience to turn someone's life around for the better.


You are right. I mentor several teenage girls in my community and try to make sure that they avoid pregnancies and dropping out of school. It takes time and it takes someone who cares. But when I see my girls walk across that stage, its all worth it.

(in reply to Jasmineinbloom)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:46:02 PM   
Jasmineinbloom


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/24/2010
Status: offline 		Not fostering an economic focus is a wise stance in any relationship. My focus was teaching positive parenting to women who had been raised in abusive/neglectful situations where violence was common.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:47:49 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmineinbloom

Not fostering an economic focus is a wise stance in any relationship. My focus was teaching positive parenting to women who had been raised in abusive/neglectful situations where violence was common.


Yep, our parent coaching program is also way understaffed with volunteers. Kudos to you for actually making a difference in the world and LadyC.



_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:48:49 PM   
Jasmineinbloom


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/24/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmineinbloom

I've mentored young mothers who were not aware that holding a baby means comfort, not spoiling. It just takes time and patience to turn someone's life around for the better.


You are right. I mentor several teenage girls in my community and try to make sure that they avoid pregnancies and dropping out of school. It takes time and it takes someone who cares. But when I see my girls walk across that stage, its all worth it.


Absolutely LadyC. I believe it's our purpose in life to care for others. Sometimes it's heartbreaking, but at the end of the day, it's worth it.

(in reply to LadyCimarron)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 9:51:02 PM   
Jasmineinbloom


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/24/2010
Status: offline 		Blessings to you Laurell3 and LadyC for being one to not let our children fall through what can be a harsh system.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 10:00:09 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Plenty of poor people have kids that they can't properly care for though they aren't on welfare.  Should they also be sterilized, or is it only the ones that take up funding?

After all, back in the early part of the 20th century, poor people with children were sterilized without their knowledge, just because they were poor and seen as drags on society.  There was no welfare then.

Now, as to the good ol' days of the relatives taking in children for no pay vs having government support - my parents had foster kids when I was young, and my mother would say the compensation doesn't come close to covering the true costs of raising an infant or toddler.  IIRC, an extra child got you another $50 per month in welfare back in the '80s in CA.  Do you really think they were having children for another 50 freakin' bucks a month?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarwinsLilHelper

You see...Everyones so caught up in the "Lets do it for the poor suffering children " Mantra of Liberalism...That they've overlooked the obvious answer.

Stop having children we can neither care for, feed or properly educate.


Just that simple. Stop government financing of the birth welfare babies. Mandatory sterilization in order to receive welfare after the first child. No Sterilization...No WIC, TANF or Foodstamps.

(in reply to DarwinsLilHelper)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 10:09:32 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		So what do we do about the offspring of those who can't grasp the "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em," fact of life?

First off, it's poppycock to claim that this is some urgent concern. The food issue among our poor is obesity, not hunger. One very big change of the '96 reforms was to place much of the Temporary Assistance to Needy Families program under state control. In some locales, cash aid simply doesn't exist. I'm not hearing about poor people starving to death in Montana and Texas (and I'm certain those stories would make the cut to go national), In others, such as CA (with roughly 10% of the US population, and better than 30% of the national caseload), the money just keeps rolling out. The 60 month time limit is riddled with loopholes, and laws such as the Maximum Family Grant (no additional benefits for children conceived while the family was already receiving aid) were so badly written and executed that families, whose children did not starve to death along the way btw, were getting "back pay" in the the tens of thousands of dollars that they were "entitled" to.

Next, we need to understand that only a segment of the poor in America get their assistance through the collection of programs that fall under the blanket term "welfare." A guy whose job goes to Taiwan, a single mother who is struck by a crippling/debilitating illness, a veteran whose mind has been broken because his country used his service poorly, some might pass through, but they won't be staying.

My answer to "what about the children??? (I always hear the preachers wife from the Simpsons...) is to close up the damn craziness in the current system, followed by some serious reforms.

We should have a safety net, and it should work for the people who need it. It shouldn't be a way of life, and an outlook on how the world works.

Of course our gov't should have a net for kids. That is just the kind of people we are. What kind of fool question is that? It troubles me that people would actually think the best hands to reach out first and catch them would be the government. That's fucked up.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 10:14:30 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		(I always hear the preachers wife from the Simpsons...)

Explains a lot.

So it`s the con`s "sink or swim" theory of child rearing.

That`s also to extreme.

"best hands to reach out first and catch them"

as opposed to no hands?

This explains why conservatives were trying to dupe folks into thinking that no healthcare at all was better than government healthcare.

I know folks,it`s a mystery.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/26/2010 10:19:12 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 10:17:17 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Because cheap food is usually crap.  If you have a decent grocery store you can get nutritious staple foods but you're screwed otherwise (downtown Dayton, for example, doesn't have a single supermarket - downtown San Jose, when I lived there in the '80s, had only one and you'd have to walk a looong ways to get there, even with bus service.)
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
First off, it's poppycock to claim that this is some urgent concern. The food issue among our poor is obesity, not hunger.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 10:27:14 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		All true, Thorns. A crappy diet of processed foods isn't quite the same as rickets and scurvy, though.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/26/2010 11:00:54 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Poppycock is another way of saying,"hey,I`m gonna go over there and bury my head in some sand,..<dig dig,scratch scratch>..."hey,I don`t see a problem....what hunger".........

http://www.oaklandinstitute.org/?q=node/view/104

There is a hidden epidemic in the United States. All over this country it is striking Americans of every age group and ethnicity, whether they live in cities or rural areas. And so, despite the diversity of targets, those suffering in this silent epidemic have two things in common: they are poor or low-income, and they are increasingly going without enough food. Although politicians talk about “poverty in America,” decision-makers avoid specifically mentioning the growing, and often deadly problem of hunger. George McGovern said in 1972, “To admit the existence of hunger in America is to confess that we have failed in meeting the most sensitive and painful of human needs. To admit the existence of widespread hunger is to cast doubt on the efficacy of our whole system.” Three decades later, evidence indicates that the existing system is failing a vast number of Americans. This Fact Sheet documents the epidemic.

See rich,one has to admit and acknowledge there`s a problem before one can do something about it.

I mean,willful ignorance is never a solution.Now is it?


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/26/2010 11:03:12 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/27/2010 1:14:58 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		Nobody wants to be on welfare Darling. NOBODY. i dont know where you get this Lazy grown people idea and to cut them off. Some have mental health problems by the way , some have looked and cant find a job because this economy is banjaxed, banjaxed in favour of the rich and banjaxed by the rich who in their greed have ruined it for everyone. Some are depressed  by the fact they cant find work, it has made them ill. The social isolation factor of not having work is huge. The stigma factor is huge because of You and others who propagate this lazy unemployed myth, lazy bums etc , i have heard it all. It is completely fictional. the bottom line is NOBODY BUT NOBODY WANTS TO BE ON WELFARE
kevin

(in reply to LadyCimarron)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/27/2010 5:56:36 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		The solution to all this is obvious; we need to reinstitute slavery alongside legislation that provides a positive duty of care on slave owners such as that found in our Animal Welfare Act 2006.

The owners will then carry the cost of housing and feeding those who lose their jobs or get evicted or have too many kids, and those in their care, one may be sure, shall be working and contributing, and their children learning a strong work ethic. It will then also be for the owners to decide whether more children would be a good thing or not as a future investment.

This would also do away with the cost of administering the welfare programmes in place, and free up Court time in respect of delinquent debtors who may be simply sold to the highest bidder, thereby recouping the losses of the creditor far more effectively than at present and so encouraging the lending that keeps the economy turning and the sort of personal responsibility we'd all like to see.

Its a win-win all round the political spectrum.

People falling on hard times are provided for, given work and housing.
People who are just irresponsible and lazy are forced to contribute.
People who are simply delinquent are set on a firmer path where they can no longer damage society.
The cost to the taxpayer of supporting the above groups is cut to nil.
The offspring of the above groups are fed, housed and given a strong work ethic.
The procreation of the above groups is controlled according to return on investment.
Healthcare is provided to all those who cant afford it, (remember the positive duty of care for owners)
The economy is strengthened by renewed confidence for lenders.
Personal responsibility becomes the norm for society.

And finally....... with millions now enslaved, our economies can readily compete with third world producers such that those who are not enslaved may enjoy a far higher standard of living for generations to come, whilst those who are enslaved get provided for at or near the level at which they are currently provided for.

Unconstitutional in the US you say? Not at all dear reader! You already have over a million slave labourers in your prison industry, sorry system. Human Rights in the EU you say? Not a worry! A few national interest exemptions here and there, the provision of positive duty of care and the rest is all maintained nicely.

Any more objections?

E


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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/27/2010 5:59:35 AM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

Nobody wants to be on welfare Darling. NOBODY. i dont know where you get this Lazy grown people idea and to cut them off. Some have mental health problems by the way , some have looked and cant find a job because this economy is banjaxed, banjaxed in favour of the rich and banjaxed by the rich who in their greed have ruined it for everyone. Some are depressed  by the fact they cant find work, it has made them ill. The social isolation factor of not having work is huge. The stigma factor is huge because of You and others who propagate this lazy unemployed myth, lazy bums etc , i have heard it all. It is completely fictional. the bottom line is NOBODY BUT NOBODY WANTS TO BE ON WELFARE
kevin



You are preaching to the choir. If you have followed my posts throughout this thread you will notice that was done tongue in cheek. Myself and Laurell have already pointed out most of what you say here. While there may very small percentage of people who just don't want to work (and I have to admit I have met one or two that fit that cateogory) I would venture to say the vast majority of people on welfare either are unable to work due to disability or unable to find work due to the economy.

(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/27/2010 8:36:18 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Been into the whiskey, have we, LadyE?

Basiji59, isn't it great when you can just rewrite the definitions to suit your purposes? Because that's the first thing your link does. Thorns already made the legitimate point you are trying to turn into one of your lies.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/27/2010 8:52:20 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Ignorance is bliss,after all....


Notice the lack of self control,folks?


But doesn`t that usually accompany a lack of intellect ?


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/27/2010 9:01:28 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/27/2010 8:53:02 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

Nobody wants to be on welfare Darling. NOBODY. i dont know where you get this Lazy grown people idea and to cut them off. Some have mental health problems by the way , some have looked and cant find a job because this economy is banjaxed, banjaxed in favour of the rich and banjaxed by the rich who in their greed have ruined it for everyone. Some are depressed  by the fact they cant find work, it has made them ill. The social isolation factor of not having work is huge. The stigma factor is huge because of You and others who propagate this lazy unemployed myth, lazy bums etc , i have heard it all. It is completely fictional. the bottom line is NOBODY BUT NOBODY WANTS TO BE ON WELFARE
kevin




You're kind of a dumbass, aren't you, Kevin? You obviously don't understand how the system is set up, and didn't bother to read the information provided in the thread. Are you afraid somebody might cut off your check?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/27/2010 9:46:28 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		im not a dumb ass. Your kind of a bastard arent you mr
kevin

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/27/2010 10:47:42 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

Your kind of a bastard arent you mr

(sic)



Yep. Generally, I hear it from submissives who never knew that many orgasms could be ripped from their body, though.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: When does helping, turn into enabling? - 6/27/2010 11:01:17 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I guess you think slavery is too good for these parasites eh Rich?

Maybe they should be processed into animal feed at those FEMA camps; think of the jobs that could be created, the profit to be made and the savings to be realised!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 140
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