RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand.

RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (Full Version)

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xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 4:29:55 PM)
The brilliance of Domiguy.... I would ask you the relevance of your comment here but we all know you have none, apart from your role as Side Show Bob. If you don't like my comments, debate them. But to bring up ridiculous distraction does little to define you as the righteous fellow you claim to be. quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy If only there was a way to send Goreans back to Gor. I would join the minutemen tomorrow.

domiguy -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 4:31:39 PM)
we want capitalism and free enterprise to be able to give us our products with the most quality and affordable rates available. However, we scream when those products produced by capitalism and a free market mean that our standard of living must suffer. I don't buy it when we say that American citizens are willing to do the work that immigrants, legal or not, are willing to do. But nonetheless, the path to ending illegals being employed is to go after the source of employment not the guy that is trying to keep his family afloat. It only makes sense. I am starving in mexico and there is a job picking fruit in California that pays me in a season more than I can make in several years at home....Where am I heading? If I know they will not employ me, I am staying put.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 4:36:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 You just described most con posters.....and well. Actually she described most Cons and Progessives, it's the middle you folks don't get. [quotes] Though one will never get an admission of defeat,the best way to know when someone`s lost is when they go nasty-personal instead of debating points and facts. The loss of self control indicates the loss of the argument. Actually those rules don't apply here, no one was trying to win anything in this op, I was asking sincere questions looking for the left sides prospective. Do you think I thought corporate interest would be supported on this website? Come on, kinksters are seldom conservative in the views. But by your attempt to distract conversation from the original issue I have to suspect your ability to admit defeat as well.

Musicmystery -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 4:37:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied Julia - I think it is confusing. The planet does not exist, yet it does in their world. This would require more understanding than I am willing to devote to the topic of Gor. ????? Check the dip. I think it's been out of the refrigerator too long.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 4:37:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Do we need border patrol to keep them out? I guess as long as you're willing to adopt them all I don't think it matters.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 4:42:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied Julia - I think it is confusing. The planet does not exist, yet it does in their world. This would require more understanding than I am willing to devote to the topic of Gor. It does in who's world? Are you seriously trying to make this topic about Gor? How fuckin' pathetic is that? I mean with DG it is old hat and expected, but to stop discussing relevant commentary is not only against TOS it's childish. Concurrently my interest in Gor is philosophical and the fact that the planet of Gor doesn't exist has never escaped me. So get a better side tracking topic.

domiguy -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 4:50:08 PM)
It's somewhat over. We live in a global economy. We better get smarter or we are going to take it in the shorts from the emerging markets. As far as immigration goes it is time to protect our borders. The most productive way is not to try and stop people as they trickle over one by one. We don't know where they are and when they are crossing ar where they reside. What a waste of resources. We know who and where the employers are. You crack down on them and there goes your illegal immigration problem.

Musicmystery -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 4:51:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx Sorry I missed this post Katy... quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied Some of the problem can be solved if people would commit to buy their groceries (meat and produce) locally. It will be time consuming, more expensive and in some cases inconvenient, but it would help. I'm ok with that idea, it might be hard for the population centers like Miami, Boston and New York to get all they need locally, but I get your point. I am personally helping Natalie (my wife) start her own produce business so I like your thinking. Me too. There's a reason I'm expanding the orchards, the vineyards, the berry patches, the veggie gardens again. Aside from that, I like the movement toward rooftop gardening--turning city rooftops into tenant gardens. It cools the buildings and provides a share of fresh produce to boot. And anyone can have a patio garden for at least some fresh produce--economics aside, it's tastier, and you know where it came from and what's happened to it. Also, a chest freezer and a farmers' market is an excellent investment, readily accessible to city folk--I was a regular when I was in grad school in Boston.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 4:52:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 If illegal is your big beef,wtf do you cons freak the fuck out when we suggest making them legal(therefore wah-lah,illegal problem gone)? Just say`n. First off there Owner59, I don't believe I'm a con as you allude to here. I'm a Libertarian (or a Gorean for you Domiguy types[8\|]), does that make me a con? If so ok. But actually I am rather progressive socially. Perhaps that's why unlike my over zealous religious freinds I actually the kinkster types around here. Now as far as legalizing, I believe I suggested the out for legalizing them. The guest worker program, or a guest worker program, I'm sure details would have to be hashed out. Give all 10 plus million illegals already here a chance to become guest workers. Not free loaders, but guest workers. But many of them here are working their asses off. So smart ass, I don't have a problem myself with legalizing them through chanels that don't minize the efforts of Hispanic, Asian, European, African or whoever else that is trying to do it right and adhere to the laws of our land. As for the "cons" that get you so riled up, you'll have to ask them their opinions. Just sayin'

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 5:00:29 PM)
I know that in your demmented kind of way this was a logical retort. quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy we want capitalism and free enterprise to be able to give us our products with the most quality and affordable rates available. However, we scream when those products produced by capitalism and a free market mean that our standard of living must suffer. Excellent point... We want to have our cake and eat it as they say. quote: I don't buy it when we say that American citizens are willing to do the work that immigrants, legal or not, are willing to do. Neither do I. In fact as an employer I find the American work ethic as less than satisfactory often enough. quote: But nonetheless, the path to ending illegals being employed is to go after the source of employment not the guy that is trying to keep his family afloat. It only makes sense. Well I disagree somewhat here.... I think we have to examine and take appropriate action towards both paths. quote: I am starving in mexico and there is a job picking fruit in California that pays me in a season more than I can make in several years at home....Where am I heading? This comment is why I think a guest worker program is a good idea, in fact I have never seen an argument against a guest worker program that makes me feel otherwise. quote: If I know they will not employ me, I am staying put. But we do need the help, so again, guest workers.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 5:05:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Me too. There's a reason I'm expanding the orchards, the vineyards, the berry patches, the veggie gardens again. Aside from that, I like the movement toward rooftop gardening--turning city rooftops into tenant gardens. It cools the buildings and provides a share of fresh produce to boot. And anyone can have a patio garden for at least some fresh produce--economics aside, it's tastier, and you know where it came from and what's happened to it. Also, a chest freezer and a farmers' market is an excellent investment, readily accessible to city folk--I was a regular when I was in grad school in Boston. I sent you some mail with regard to this subject matter Tim.

KatyLied -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 5:05:24 PM)
quote: and anyone can have a patio garden for at least some fresh produce--economics aside, it's tastier, and you know where it came from and what's happened to it. Kudos. And for those who do not garden, there are community supported agriculture shares and farmer's markets, and in some areas, local meat available, from a farm near you.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 5:08:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy It's somewhat over. We live in a global economy. We better get smarter or we are going to take it in the shorts from the emerging markets. As far as immigration goes it is time to protect our borders. The most productive way is not to try and stop people as they trickle over one by one. We don't know where they are and when they are crossing ar where they reside. What a waste of resources. We know who and where the employers are. You crack down on them and there goes your illegal immigration problem. I think we have to do both.... And in a country where wasting resources is almost priority one, this doesn't seem like the worst waste of money and man power to me. We need workers, no doubt. We also need rules for those in high places.

KatyLied -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 5:16:22 PM)
Bull I wish more could be as compassionate. There seems to be a lot of bigotry and fear surrounding illegals, with people thinking they are taking away jobs when that is not the case. No one else wants those jobs for those wages. I would like to see reform that addresses everything, the economics, as well as the human condition. I don't think that blaming illegals for a problem that our economy and big ag has created is fair.

Arpig -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 5:34:53 PM)
quote: Sure you can....not perfectly, but it can be done and here's the real interesting part, you could use civilian assets to do it in turn adding private sector jobs under governmental oversite. Your southern & northern borders are roughly 7500 miles long, mostly through wilderness, even at 1 man patrolling a 1/4 mile that is around 30,000 men...maybe if you used your national guard, but the logistics of it are insurmountable. I don't know how you are going to resolve your illegal immigrant population, but whatever strategy you try you are going to have to accept the fact that you cannot prevent them getting in.

igor2003 -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 5:36:46 PM)
---FR--- Unfortunately, in a country with millions of people you are going to have millions of ideas on how to handle the millions of problems. There is no one right answer, and many or most wrong answers have at least some merit. JUST cracking down on employers hiring illegals is not going to stop the thousands of pounds of drugs coming in across the border, it isn't going to stop the people coming in with well-forged papers, and it isn't going to stop members of various terrorist cells from entering the country. It might be true that some of the people coming in illegally are needed in some areas such as agriculture, so maybe SOME of those people do need to be given legal status. I do have to wonder right now, with unemployment at such a high rate, whether there might be a LOT of jobs currently held by illegals that U.S. citizens wouldn't like to have if the jobs were available? And if we DO need to open the borders for people to fill open spaces in the job market then I would like to know that the people coming in are coming here wanting to actually contribute to the U.S. society and economy, and not just come here to suck it dry by using and abusing our resources, then sending most of their earings back to where they came from. I know, I know...they are just trying to make a better life for their families "back home", and actually I find that admirable. But when they use our resourses and send their earnigs out of country it puts even more of a strain on the economy here, and if you haven't noticed our economy is in pretty poor condition right now. So maybe...just MAYBE...there are good ideas coming from both sides of the issue, and that what we need now is some actual BIPARTISAN co-operation to actually address the whole problem. LOL...like THAT is going to happen!

juliaoceania -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 6:22:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Do we need border patrol to keep them out? I guess as long as you're willing to adopt them all I don't think it matters. There are many couples that adopt babies from other countries... do you have a problem with that?

juliaoceania -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 6:40:53 PM)
quote: Are you seriously trying to make this topic about Gor? How fuckin' pathetic is that? I mean with DG it is old hat and expected, but to stop discussing relevant commentary is not only against TOS it's childish. About as childish as questioning someone's nationality because they disagree with you about how to solve a problem... funny how people have three fingers pointed at someone else there are three pointed back at them

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 6:53:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Sure you can....not perfectly, but it can be done and here's the real interesting part, you could use civilian assets to do it in turn adding private sector jobs under governmental oversite. Your southern & northern borders are roughly 7500 miles long, mostly through wilderness, even at 1 man patrolling a 1/4 mile that is around 30,000 men...maybe if you used your national guard, but the logistics of it are insurmountable. I don't know how you are going to resolve your illegal immigrant population, but whatever strategy you try you are going to have to accept the fact that you cannot prevent them getting in. Well, thankfully you Canagians have a robust enough economy that you haven't been breaking down our doors to get here, though for safety reasons, I do believe that even our Canadian border needs electonic surveillance. You guys don't harbor terrorists, but you are rather liberal about those coming and going. I suppose if you suggest it we could fence the populace areas.[;)] The big part of the problem to the south is the corruption and economic conditions of Mexico. Once upon a time I thought it would be better off to just envite Mexico into statehood, but why would they want to assume the responsibilities of being a state when it isn't necessary to get all the benefits they already do. That and it is arrogant to even assume they would want to be, just in general. I don't have a good answer either, but we can't just do nothing forever.....can we?

Owner59 -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 6:57:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Hiring illegals is illegal That's my point exactly....If it's illegal.....the theroy is that no one should be doing it, whatever it is. Pot is also illegal...... Good luck with that.

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