RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand.

RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (Full Version)

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xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 7:04:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 I do have to wonder right now, with unemployment at such a high rate, whether there might be a LOT of jobs currently held by illegals that U.S. citizens wouldn't like to have if the jobs were available? I've also been thinking about this point, but most that have a lack of jobs in their area have found themselves in such a position because their particular job source was hit by the housing slump or the auto crash (pun intended). But for these people the next problem is they owned a home they couldn't sell so they could move where jobs existed, that and extended unemployment benefits made it possible to just hang on and hope that tomorrow brought a sunny day. I've been researching this too outside of the media propaganda. quote: And if we DO need to open the borders for people to fill open spaces in the job market then I would like to know that the people coming in are coming here wanting to actually contribute to the U.S. society and economy, and not just come here to suck it dry by using and abusing our resources, then sending most of their earings back to where they came from. I don't really care what they do with their money, it is after all theirs, but I do prefer a worker that is wanting to come here and build a better tomorrow. But I would rather workers came here to worker as opposed to factories or businesses going to other countries and exploiting workers there and we get nothing but lost jobs, no future jobs, the same high prices and even more substandard products quote: . So maybe...just MAYBE...there are good ideas coming from both sides of the issue, and that what we need now is some actual BIPARTISAN co-operation to actually address the whole problem. I suggest we start electing people that want to work together that put America ahead of politics and actually understand the value of a dollar and how to make it work for us.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 7:10:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania There are many couples that adopt babies from other countries... do you have a problem with that? Julia, those couples aren't railing against my query with a stance of self righteousness, all the while spewing hypocracy with nearly every breath. So no I don't have trouble with their efforts, I have two very dear friends with two Russian children they adopted..... I'm all for sharing the love!

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 7:17:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied Bull I wish more could be as compassionate. I hope your opinion on my stance is correct on all levels( I feel in my heart it is). I truly want to understand everyone's interest in these matters and I don't believe we'll ever get a balanced solution until our leaders feel this way also. I have this crazy notion that leaders should be owned by special interests. quote: There seems to be a lot of bigotry and fear surrounding illegals, with people thinking they are taking away jobs when that is not the case. No one else wants those jobs for those wages. I would like to see reform that addresses everything, the economics, as well as the human condition. I don't think that blaming illegals for a problem that our economy and big ag has created is fair. Hmmmmm, thinking about it maybe we should put a fence around the media until they can remember how to report the news and stories of interest without trying to impose their own agenda upon all of us. [:D] The power of acurate information could be rather helpful in the areas you describe.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 7:23:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania About as childish as questioning someone's nationality because they disagree with you about how to solve a problem... funny how people have three fingers pointed at someone else there are three pointed back at them Ok I'll bite...... Did I seriously question someone's nationality because they disagreed with me? Please show me where. If I was needlessly insensative I'll mend that fence.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 7:27:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Pot is also illegal...... Good luck with that. I don't smoke it.... I believe my integrity is in tact with regards to that legality. But I do believe it isn't the big deal that it's opponents say it is. But we can dicuss pot in another thread, if that's alright with you.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 8:08:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania About as childish as questioning someone's nationality because they disagree with you about how to solve a problem... funny how people have three fingers pointed at someone else there are three pointed back at them Ok I'll bite...... Did I seriously question someone's nationality because they disagreed with me? Please show me where. If I was needlessly insensative I'll mend that fence. find it interesting that you prefer non Americans to Americans, do you hate this country that much? Why do you stay here? I know those are ridiculous questions, yet I feel the same about your Black Water comments. That to me is questioning my patriotism, my loyalty to my people, etc... all because I think it is irrational to guard the border when we could stop immigration by stopping employers from hiring them... it is saying that because I believe in the ethical humane treatment of all people regardless of where they are born this somehow makes me "less American". You are inferring by this statement that because I would put myself in harm's way to protect people coming over the border from abuse, that his means I should move to another country because I am not "American" enough.. dude... Edited for language[:)]

Arpig -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 8:45:41 PM)
I bet you would be surprised how many are actually entering the US from Canada...that border out west is wide open...And as far as doing nothing, well by all means try whatever you think will work, but common sense dictates that you don't waste time trying to interdict the entry of illegals, it can't be done, you can cut it down, you can make it tougher for them, but you will never stop them all. Hell even Canada has an illegal immigrant problem, we have 2-500000 of them...where the hell did they come from, we only have a land border with you guys and I can guarantee you they didn't come across the pack ice. If we can't stop them flying in or getting here by boat, then there's no fucking way you can stop them just walking in.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 8:51:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig I bet you would be surprised how many are actually entering the US from Canada...that border out west is wide open...And as far as doing nothing, well by all means try whatever you think will work, but common sense dictates that you don't waste time trying to interdict the entry of illegals, it can't be done, you can cut it down, you can make it tougher for them, but you will never stop them all. Hell even Canada has an illegal immigrant problem, we have 2-500000 of them...where the hell did they come from, we only have a land border with you guys and I can guarantee you they didn't come across the pack ice. If we can't stop them flying in or getting here by boat, then there's no fucking way you can stop them just walking in. But they are white and speak English... so it doesn't matter so much...

Arpig -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 8:55:45 PM)
Actually most of the illegals entering from Canada are eastern Europeans, at least that is what I heard on the news up here a while back, so I can't vouch for it as absolute fact. And remember a number of the 9/11 gang entered from Canada...though they entered legally.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 8:59:34 PM)
Many Eastern Europeans speak English.. and they are white Can you explain any other reason why there would be such a big issue? It is largely because of ethnicity as to why people get so passionately upset about our border with Mexico....

Arpig -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 9:02:42 PM)
quote: and they are white Now don't I feel stupid....[;)]

juliaoceania -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 9:07:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: and they are white Now don't I feel stupid....[;)] I was just pointing out the obvious in relationship to the ethnicity of those coming from canada compared with their Mexican counterparts.. I didn't mean to point out the obvious like you didn't know it....lol

popeye1250 -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/3/2010 11:53:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Sure you can....not perfectly, but it can be done and here's the real interesting part, you could use civilian assets to do it in turn adding private sector jobs under governmental oversite. Your southern & northern borders are roughly 7500 miles long, mostly through wilderness, even at 1 man patrolling a 1/4 mile that is around 30,000 men...maybe if you used your national guard, but the logistics of it are insurmountable. I don't know how you are going to resolve your illegal immigrant population, but whatever strategy you try you are going to have to accept the fact that you cannot prevent them getting in. Arpig, one word, "minefields." We currently guard S. Korea's border with mines, no-man's lands and Troops and all kinds of sensors and a mouse can't get in from N. Korea but they know it. I believe we have 27,000 Troops in S. Korea guarding Their border! And the problem isn't so much Canada but Mexico, Cent. America and the Carribean countries. We could have that Mexican border locked down tight in 48 hours with Troops. I believe our border with Mexico is 1,948 miles long so that's more than doable especialy with so many Troops comming home from Iraq and Afganistan in the next two years. Hell, we have what, 30,000 Troops up in Washington state with the 7th infantry at Ft. Lewis? (Anyone know?) At Ft. Stewart in Georgia there's I think 60,000 Troops. Here in S. Carolina there's another Ft. with 22,000 I believe and just up the road from me we have Ft. Bragg with a HUGE number of Troops, (100,000?) And then you have Ft Hood in Texas, Ft Cambell in Kentucky, Ft Leonard Wood in Missouri, and more Army Forts in Calif, Nevada, Virginia,Florida and a bunch of other states with probably 300-400,000 more Troops.. We could put 90,000 Troops along that border without breaking a sweat. And then there's about 200,000 Marines give or take. Some areas of that border could be controlled for hundreds of miles with only 2-3,000 Troops given the remotness of the area and topography. Do you think that idiot Obama will do that though? He should have done it in his first week in office! The interests of the American People aren't a very high priority with him, we're in line behind people who are in our country illegally it seems! He listens to "special interests" and not the American People. We're going to do some "talking" this November and let's see if Obama listens then. If he doesn't come 2012 he can go back to Harvard. The logistics and tactics aren't the problem.

slvemike4u -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 1:48:34 AM)
Now doesn't that just take the cake.....Popeye's solution to the illegal immigration situation is to "seed" our southern border with minefields. Does anything more really need to be said?

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 8:27:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania find it interesting that you prefer non Americans to Americans, do you hate this country that much? Why do you stay here? I know those are ridiculous questions, yet I feel the same about your Black Water comments. That to me is questioning my patriotism, my loyalty to my people, etc... all because I think it is irrational to guard the border when we could stop immigration by stopping employers from hiring them... it is saying that because I believe in the ethical humane treatment of all people regardless of where they are born this somehow makes me "less American". You are inferring by this statement that because I would put myself in harm's way to protect people coming over the border from abuse, that his means I should move to another country because I am not "American" enough.. dude... Edited for language[:)] I just love your condescending attitude...dudette. My comment stems from the fact you took what I said out of context (the Black Water nonsense) and then stated you'd defend those other than your own ahead of your own. Now if the situation was so out of hand that we actually had to run combat operations I'd say that would indicate we were at a state of war with either Canada (I'll mention them since Arpig is determined that I also focus energies there) or Mexico. In that event you would be conducting an act of treason against the US; or something like that. See what happens when you intentionally take something someone says out of context to suit your own underhanded purposes. It sounds like ridiculous conjecture. Your attempt at misdirection backfired on you now get with the subject matter or ignore this thread. Thank you. This immigration problem isn't just about employers, but they are a large contributing factor as Katy has certainly pointed out. So if you'd be so kind, open your eyes to all that affects this southern border issue. There is an unofficial war of sorts going on down there on that border. One US citizen was killed recently, the drug gangs in Mexico are threatening to sniper Americans in Nogales and that alone is reason enough for me to consider some advanced measures to separate us from Mexico's problems. Now if you feel I unjustly challenged your allegiance to the flag I get that, and if you didn't intend to stand against a valid defense of our nation I apologize. However in as much as I am considering your position it might be big of you to consider mine. To me it seems like an enforceable border along with a fairly regulated guest worker program are two places we should begin, but if you're determined to make this a racial issue and then leaving the argument at we must surrender our sovereignty to illegal aliens, I must question your having a legitimate voice in this discussion.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 8:33:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig I bet you would be surprised how many are actually entering the US from Canada...that border out west is wide open...And as far as doing nothing, well by all means try whatever you think will work, but common sense dictates that you don't waste time trying to interdict the entry of illegals, it can't be done, you can cut it down, you can make it tougher for them, but you will never stop them all. Hell even Canada has an illegal immigrant problem, we have 2-500000 of them...where the hell did they come from, we only have a land border with you guys and I can guarantee you they didn't come across the pack ice. If we can't stop them flying in or getting here by boat, then there's no fucking way you can stop them just walking in. I'll have to agree, perhaps it is in the best interest of both the US and Canada to consider a more closely monitored border. I haven't given it as much thought as you obviously have, but in the future will not disregard your insight. All things being equal, in the future if the US economy continues to drop, the Government continues to swell and the cost of living tanks you may want to fortify your border against us. Just sayin'

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 9:08:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Many Eastern Europeans speak English.. and they are white Can you explain any other reason why there would be such a big issue? It is largely because of ethnicity as to why people get so passionately upset about our border with Mexico.... Wow you are determined to make this a race issue. More misdirection I assume, a very left wing tactic. Between the way left and the way right it's amazing we accomplish anything around here. Let's see here. The Aztecs, the Mayans and possibly the Incans are believed to have migrated across the Bering Straights most likely around 10,000-30,000 plus years ago along with the Eskimo, Aleut and Northern Indian; I'm not sure we know that absolutely, but it sounds reasonable to me. I suspect that would have them of Asian ancestry. I personally have a fetish for Asian girls so while that identifies these girls specifically by their race it is for positive or good reasons I assure you. Then there's Cortez, a European to my knowledge, and in fact a rather typical one, a conqueror, a slave owner and a land grabber. He introduced Spain to "Mexico" in fact was the Governor. So I have to assume that due to Spanish immigration of Mexico we aren't all that dissimilar. Unless I'm dead wrong this little bit of historical commentary sets a rather deaf ear towards your conjecture that us European decedents have a racial bias against other European descendents. Well apart from the fact that each separate European Country has always been after land that the others occupied or claimed. So maybe Mexico has plans of invasion? I wish you’d stop spinning this conversation about unfounded conjecture.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 9:15:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I was just pointing out the obvious in relationship to the ethnicity of those coming from canada compared with their Mexican counterparts.. I didn't mean to point out the obvious like you didn't know it....lol Here's an interesting point you fail to consider as to why many Americans aren't fussing over the Canadian border. No Montana Ranchers have been killed by any Canadians illegally crossing the border lately...At least as far as I know. It's funny how we don't mind the peaceful immigrants all that much. Can you say guest worker program (I'm guessing we'd at least attempt to vet the applicants of this program)? Oh wait, even if it were a good idea that "fuck stick" "W" endorsed it so it has to be a bad idea to the far left.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 9:20:54 AM)
My brother tells me the same shit all the time... "You should move to Iraq, you'd be happier".. He even tells his own mother that when she disagrees with him about politics... That sort of discourse has NO PLACE in this conversation..... why even bring it up? It isn't a relevant fucking statement whatsoever! You say the words, fucking own them.

Jeffff -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 9:21:05 AM)
There would still be employers who would hire illegals. It is easier for them. you give a guy a few hundred bucks in cash every week and call it a day. No muss, no fuss, no paper work. At some point you have got to crack down on employers. Having said that, a few years ago I had a guy who worked for me. He must have had phony documentation because we demand it when you are hired. After maybe 18 months it came out that he was illegal. I liked him, he was a good employee and a good guy. Shortly after I learned about it he quit for a better job. I always wondered if I should have turned him in. The easy answer is, yes I should have. In practice....not so easy.

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