RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand.

RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (Full Version)

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seekingOwnertoo -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 11:33:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx I can appreciate your point of view. And while our entire border is to be considered it seems to me your comments here are only analyzing it from your particular jurisdiction. But your point is taken. A question if I might......Have any of those pesky Yukon neighbors of yours skipped our border and killed any Alaskans lately? <chuckles> Actually, it is those pesky Ontarians! Because, Detroit IS north of southwestern Ontario. [;)] And yes, I stated it from a regional perspective, deliberately. Because, every time Washington messes with border security ... it illicits a hue and cry ... hasty modifications and concessions ... lots of money wasted ... The reason appears to be, because most of the US forgets, there is thriving International trade that has been going on for centuries ... in places like Detroit, Buffalo etc. When we speak of borders ... it is important to differentiate ... between them! Frankly, there are not many Canadians ... sneaking into the USA ... illegally! [;)] But they might be starting to worry about Americans ... escaping there! [;)] [;)] [;)]

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 11:57:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I would say that your post skipped over a very pertinent part of the problem, if no one would hire them, they wouldn't come... And there it is in a nutshell And I would counter with; If they were stopped at the border where they should be, they would not be here to be hired.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:12:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I would say that your post skipped over a very pertinent part of the problem, if no one would hire them, they wouldn't come... And there it is in a nutshell And I would counter with; If they were stopped at the border where they should be, they would not be here to be hired. Hence the reason I think my double edged bill would be for the best.

slvemike4u -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:15:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I would say that your post skipped over a very pertinent part of the problem, if no one would hire them, they wouldn't come... And there it is in a nutshell And I would counter with; If they were stopped at the border where they should be, they would not be here to be hired. Of course your "counter" ignores in its entirety the difficulty of closing such a border.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:16:32 PM)
You'll have big problems if you clamp down on Mexican workers because American workers are not qualified to pick fruit.

slvemike4u -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:21:12 PM)
Forget whether or not they are qualified to pick fruit.....are they (American families) prepared to pay for fruit and vegatables picked by American workers ?

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:24:18 PM)
American's won't do the job or they won't do the job for long. The sad fact is that American's have better job aspirations than Mexicans it seems. Same problem here, nobody wants to clean city toilets or hand wash cars. It takes a special type of grit to pick fruit all day.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:28:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Of course your "counter" ignores in its entirety the difficulty of closing such a border. It doesn't seem that dealing with the employer issue is going to be easy either, apart from, possibly, using the guest worker program. But nonetheless it seems all our efforts are far from easy. But normally it is a challange that usually inspires Americans serious about addressing a problem. How serious are we?

slvemike4u -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:29:34 PM)
Again...whether or not they could do the job is beside the point.....the wages American workers would "demand" to do that sort of labor would drive food prices thru the roof . Leading to a whole new slant on this discussion.The job issue is nothing more than a canard used to distract from the fear and racism that is at the true heart of this "problem".

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:31:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 American's won't do the job or they won't do the job for long. The sad fact is that American's have better job aspirations than Mexicans it seems. Same problem here, nobody wants to clean city toilets or hand wash cars. It takes a special type of grit to pick fruit all day. Hmmmm, you two are slaves.... Maybe we could get some big titted dommes to harness that labor force, it should be cheaper than the immigrant fruit pickers.[:D]

slvemike4u -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:33:05 PM)
I'm hoping that was merely a silly attempt at a joke.....though with you I'm never quite sure.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:34:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Forget whether or not they are qualified to pick fruit.....are they (American families) prepared to pay for fruit and vegatables picked by American workers ? mike, are you suggesting that we continue the process of paying illegals beneath the "tables"? personally, employers should have to pay at least minimum regardless of the legal status. Many states have enacted legal help programs to address the many issues of fraud, violence and discriminantion. I applaud those states. I dont want anyone working in America to be robbed simply because an employer can do so.

slvemike4u -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:37:23 PM)
Tazzy I'm not suggesting anything....merely trying to be honest about the conversation.Do you not agree that were we to be able to somehow effect the expulsion of all illegal farm workers that the price of foodstuffs at the local grocery store would soar?

heartcream -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:37:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 American's won't do the job or they won't do the job for long. The sad fact is that American's have better job aspirations than Mexicans it seems. Same problem here, nobody wants to clean city toilets or hand wash cars. It takes a special type of grit to pick fruit all day. Hmmmm, you two are slaves.... Maybe we could get some big titted dommes to harness that labor force, it should be cheaper than the immigrant fruit pickers.[:D] Seriously did you just say that? The thing about South/Central Americans worth noting is that not only do they do the shit jobs at a fraction of the cost they are not inundated with the whiney complainy ways North Americans are. Go to a place with Latin workers and listen to the laughing and the constant singing. Go to a place of what I call white people and listen to the whining, back stabbing and all the ways they discover to scam the employer. I personally would rather work with S/C Americans any day of the week. Yes I am generalizing. But it is true most black people can tear up the dance floor with what appears to be barely trying and most Latin workers are awesome workers and awesome people as a whole.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:38:48 PM)
How ethical you are in terms of payment should also ideally extend to your imported goods from China. They get paid less but due to economic conditions sometimes this is all relative depending on where you are spending the money. Ask me about London weighting. In these conversations nobody factors cost of living into the equation, people can't live on air and so logically doing this is preferable to not doing it. To consider what a worker gets paid based on your costs of living when they don't live where you do is a pointless exercise. Either this or the Mexican workers are far more resourceful because they can survive for far less.

KatyLied -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:40:22 PM)
That is probably what would happen. People would have to pay an "honest" price for their food, definitely something that is not going on today, unless people are buying locally or planting/harvesting their own.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:40:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Tazzy I'm not suggesting anything....merely trying to be honest about the conversation.Do you not agree that were we to be able to somehow effect the expulsion of all illegal farm workers that the price of foodstuffs at the local grocery store would soar? mike, that isnt just because of illegals. but, yes, i do forsee many companies using it as an excuse to raise prices. Just as i see it as a reason for people to shop local markets. So you may not get your favorite pineapple (already 5 dollars a piece here), but the fruits and veges you buy will be fresher, local and less costly.

slvemike4u -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:54:25 PM)
"Excuse" my ass Tazzy.....the fruit and vegatables would either rot in the fields...or higher wages would be paid.....Higher wages lead to higher costs.....it has always been so in a free market society. This all assumes of course that you could find enough American workers willing to do such back breaking work....an erroneous assumption IMO....no we would need to institute some sort of guest worker program ...again leading to higher prices. Now I'm not saying this would be a bad thing...as a matter of fact the expolitation of migrant workers is a blight on our country....all I'm doing here is pointing out to the Popeyes and the Bulls that there is a cost to their xenophobic fears. Unless of course Bulls local supermarket has a "Master's" discount program.....lol.

Owner59 -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 12:56:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I would say that your post skipped over a very pertinent part of the problem, if no one would hire them, they wouldn't come... And there it is in a nutshell And I would counter with; If they were stopped at the border where they should be, they would not be here to be hired. "If they were stopped" That is one big F`n if, FDD. Fact is,that`ll never happen.No more that we can stop the rain. Throw some Americans in jail and watch the illegal labor market dry up.

xBullx -> RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. (7/4/2010 1:01:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Again...whether or not they could do the job is beside the point.....the wages American workers would "demand" to do that sort of labor would drive food prices thru the roof . Leading to a whole new slant on this discussion.The job issue is nothing more than a canard used to distract from the fear and racism that is at the true heart of this "problem". I agree that fear is part of the problem... Using my local community as an example I see fear of the "gang" discussion, but all immigrant sects have had this factor born within. The Italians, Chinese, Jewish, Irish and Russian migrations and you could even use the Black migration from south to north as catalysts that promote modern fears towards migratory change. Anyone remember the red summer. But the problem with laws and regulations that restrict and subjugate people is the advent of the gang, or some type of wolf pack that stands to preserve their right to exist. But, as far as racism, and it surely exists in various degrees. I will have to say that Latin/American interpersonal relationships are not all that uncommon and no one really pays that much attention to them as time passes. So long as it seems the Hispanic or Asians that are moving in seem intent on making this their home and assimilate to the current way of life and adding cultural changes that actually enhance life for all, we're all getting along pretty well, not perfectly, but life is never perfect. I suspect this is an age-old story. So it relegates us to the question of: Is the illegal alien here to make this their home? If so is breaking our laws the best way to start.

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