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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm hoping that was merely a silly attempt at a joke.....though with you I'm never quite sure.

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ORIGINAL: xBullx

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Again...whether or not they could do the job is beside the point.....the wages American workers would "demand" to do that sort of labor would drive food prices thru the roof .
Leading to a whole new slant on this discussion.The job issue is nothing more than a canard used to distract from the fear and racism that is at the true heart of this "problem".

I agree that fear is part of the problem...

Using my local community as an example I see fear of the "gang" discussion, but all immigrant sects have had this factor born within. The Italians, Chinese, Jewish, Irish and Russian migrations and you could even use the Black migration from south to north as catalists that promote modern fears towards migritory change. Anyone remember the red summer. But the problem with laws and reulations that restrict and subjugate people is the advent of the gang, or some type of wolf pack that stands to preserve their right to exist

But as far as racism, and it surely exists in various degrees. I will have to say that Latin/American interpersonal relationships are not all that uncommon and no one really pays that much attention to them as time passes.

So long as it seems the Hispanic or Asians that are moving in seem intent on making this their home and assimilate to the current way of life and adding cultural changes that actually enhance life for all, we're all getting along pretty well, not perfectly, but life is never perfect. I suspect this is an age old story.

So it relegates us to the question of : Is the illegal alien here to make this their home? If so is breaking our laws the best way to start.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

mike, are you suggesting that we continue the process of paying illegals beneath the "tables"?

personally, employers should have to pay at least minimum regardless of the legal status. Many states have enacted legal help programs to address the many issues of fraud, violence and discriminantion. I applaud those states. I dont want anyone working in America to be robbed simply because an employer can do so.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

"Excuse" my ass Tazzy.....the fruit and vegatables would either rot in the fields...or higher wages would be paid.....Higher wages lead to higher costs.....it has always been so in a free market society.
This all assumes of course that you could find enough American workers willing to do such back breaking work....an erroneous assumption IMO....no we would need to institute some sort of guest worker program ...again leading to higher prices.
Now I'm not saying this would be a bad thing...as a matter of fact the expolitation of migrant workers is a blight on our country....all I'm doing here is pointing out to the Popeyes and the Bulls that there is a cost to their xenophobic fears.
Unless of course Bulls local supermarket has a "Master's" discount program.....lol.

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ORIGINAL: heartcream

Seriously did you just say that?

The thing about South/Central Americans worth noting is that not only do they do the shit jobs at a fraction of the cost they are not inundated with the whiney complainy ways North Americans are. Go to a place with Latin workers and listen to the laughing and the constant singing. Go to a place of what I call white people and listen to the whining, back stabbing and all the ways they discover to scam the employer.

I personally would rather work with S/C Americans any day of the week.

Yes I am generalizing. But it is true most black people can tear up the dance floor with what appears to be barely trying and most Latin workers are awesome workers and awesome people as a whole.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The illeagal immagrant comes here(in large part) for work and opportunity for him/herself and their children.Our immigration laws and our quotas mean less than nothing to people seeking a better way of life for themselves.
I'm wondering who amongst us here ...were we to be faced with the same choices would pause over the thought of violating such laws.
I know I for one wouldn't give it a second thought.

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This benefits the farmer and the consumer

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

This thread has been interesting. Thank you.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm going to need some help with that last post Tazzy....You lost me.

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More than 23,000 people have been killed in Mexico’s drug-related violence since President Felipe Calderon launched an all-out offensive against drug gangs in 2006.

Much of the violence stems from rival drug- and migrant-smuggling gangs vying for power, including a firefight Thursday that left 21 people dead and at least six others wounded about 12 miles (20 kilometers) from the Arizona border.

The shootings took place in a sparsely populated area near the border city of Nogales that is considered a prime corridor for migrant and drug smuggling. Sonora state prosecutors said all those killed were gang members.

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ORIGINAL: xBullx
The funny thing is that the same people that want the meat packer to stop hiring illegals, assuming they did this knowingly (I do know they are legally limited on what they can actually question or ask a perspective employee) hire illegals also want cheap ham and steaks.

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ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

Thought I would address some of the issues discussed here, from a different perspective.

First, you can’t just close the border.

The economic dislocation in the United States from this would be worse than the great depression.

The amount of interrelated, interdependent trade, between the USA, Canada and Mexico is unbelievable.

Companies headquartered in the United States, have operations in both countries that are critical to their operations, and dependent on just in time delivery.

Likewise companies, located in those other countries, do the same.

So forget, closing the border. In fact, we need to make it easier to cross, faster.

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Second, how do you differentiate, between the two countries on our borders?

Heck, if I recall correctly, we import most of our foreign produced energy, from Canada.

We close the border; guess what happens to the price of fuel here? What are the economic consequences?

And if we only close the Mexican Border, guess how long it will take some lawyer to sue the US government for discrimination, as well as create havoc and penalties with the world trade organization?

Again, the repercussions are unacceptable.

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The third thought I had, is Canadians are not interested in illegally immigrating into the US.

Is it because they have a robust, thriving economy?

Maybe the only real long term solution is to raise the universal standard of living in Mexico, so they do not want to come here.

And in the interim use the IRS to crack down on those who hire illegal’s; and the FBI on those who forge documents.

Heck, the IRS cracks down on waiters and waitresses, to ensure they pay taxes on tips.

If they are so picky, don’t you think they can’t crack down on contractors, farmers, etc, who hire illegal's?

And isn’t forgery of US Government documents an FBI issue?

Maybe the real problem here … is politicians can’t get elected ... by solving the problem. As thorny as it is.

And yes, I am ignoring the agriculture industry ... although I have heard ... Mexican produce is imported into urban ares of California ... while I have seen Califorinia produce in Canadian grocery stores ... ????

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ORIGINAL: xBullx

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The illeagal immagrant comes here(in large part) for work and opportunity for him/herself and their children.Our immigration laws and our quotas mean less than nothing to people seeking a better way of life for themselves.
I'm wondering who amongst us here ...were we to be faced with the same choices would pause over the thought of violating such laws.
I know I for one wouldn't give it a second thought.

I suspect that in itself demonstrates some need to protect the workers that are here legally and valid.

I know you and a few others suggest that no Americans will do the jobs that these illegals do, but I have seen the contrary.

So, knowing we do honestly need more laborers, a fairly monitored and regulated guest worker program seems to be in order. This would take the advanced screening process out of the hands of those incapable employers some are railing against.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm going to need some help with that last post Tazzy....You lost me.

quote:

More than 23,000 people have been killed in Mexico’s drug-related violence since President Felipe Calderon launched an all-out offensive against drug gangs in 2006.

Much of the violence stems from rival drug- and migrant-smuggling gangs vying for power, including a firefight Thursday that left 21 people dead and at least six others wounded about 12 miles (20 kilometers) from the Arizona border.

The shootings took place in a sparsely populated area near the border city of Nogales that is considered a prime corridor for migrant and drug smuggling. Sonora state prosecutors said all those killed were gang members.

http://www.eutimes.net/2010/07/21-killed-in-massive-gang-shootout-near-us-mexican-border/