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Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:21:45 AM

whitekat

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So there's various threads about 'how should I punish her for X' and 'What's the worst punishment you've gotten' but what I want to know is who punishes the dominant for their infractions?

I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves.

Who corrects their bad behaviors? Or are we left to just deal with their stupidity or selfishness. Is the fact that they have such a difficult time finding and keeping partners punishment enough? Or does that not work, since most never realize why they're alone?

Post #: 1

RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:33:15 AM

MarcEsadrian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: whitekat
I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves.

Oh, the injustice...

Who punishes the "dominant"? The consequences of his or her own actions, basically.

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(in reply to whitekat)

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RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:34:25 AM

MagiksSlave

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The funny thing is I have thought about this too. I just dont get adults that want to punish other adults. It just doesnt click with me. I feel like it is an insult when a Dom thinks that by the side of the kneel they are on, that they have a right to punish. It feels rather degrading to *me* for the mere fact that we are all humans and we all make mistakes. Why should mine be punished simply because I am a sub and yours be forgiven because you are a Dom.

When aproached by a Dom that wants this kind of dynamic I can't help but ask "Can I spank you too, if you do something I dont like?" That usually ends all lines of communication right quick.

I always feel that we are all prone to mistakes. If you can punish me for making a mistake then why can't punish I you for the same thing? Its kind of like 'do as I say, not as I do.' and that line of thinking always frustrates me.

That being said, everyone has their own views on this. This kind of relationship apeals to some, I dont get it but they do.

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to whitekat)

Post #: 3

RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:34:49 AM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
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The dom ought to be like the sub, ideally: both making honest mistakes. Not fucking up on purpose. So then they should make amends just like anyone else would- apologize, make corrections, learn and move on. The same way the sub or anyone vanilla would.

If the dom is purposely fucking up, just as if the sub or anyone vanilla were- if it was a pattern over time, or even just one deal-breaking infraction: their partner would be wise to vote with their feet. Some people just really don't learn, and some just don't care. Doms and subs, and vanillas- all may punish themselves by staying with such a person, or they may "punish" the culprit by leaving.

I see what you're saying though. If the sub leaves, some doms just don't learn so they just end up being a jerk to the next sub, and the pattern repeats. These "doms" are people who don't care a lot about their partners. Otherwise they'd put forth the effort required to make adjustments, so that they could eventually sustain a long-term relationship.

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RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:35:14 AM

laurell3

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I do, every time I say "we need to talk"......

Seriously they have that power because it is granted to them. There's nothing wrong with punishment dynamics if they are consentual. I find it humorous when people get all up in arms and start shouting about horrible Doms, they only have as much power as they are granted, nothing more. It is a two-way street when blame is passed out.

One would hope most issues are resolved with communication and honesty, however, the Dom is supposed to be driving the train, if he's that poor of an engineer, punishment isn't the issue, getting off the train is.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 7/15/2010 11:39:42 AM >

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RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:35:23 AM

Rogue886

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Well as far as I am concerned if I make mistakes then I hope My girl would tell Me. As a lot of ppl on these boards have said before it comes down to communication & respect. I freely admit I am nowhere near perfect, & therefrore have & will make mistakes. And personally I`d rather know what My mistakes were so I can try to avoid making them again.

_____________________________

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Between Learning & Accomplishment ~ Jim Rohn ~

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Post #: 6

RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:35:57 AM

MagiksSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

quote:

ORIGINAL: whitekat
I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves.

Oh, the injustice...

Who punishes the "dominant"? The consequences of his or her own actions, basically.

Yes, and don't you feel it should be that way for ALL adults? Or do you feel that subs are so dim that they dont get the consequences of their own actions and need further teaching??

I don't know about other subs, but if I do something and the consequences are not to my liking. I don't do it again.

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)

Post #: 7

RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:39:46 AM

Zevar

Posts: 801
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: whitekat

So there's various threads about 'how should I punish her for X' and 'What's the worst punishment you've gotten' but what I want to know is who punishes the dominant for their infractions?

I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves.

Who corrects their bad behaviors? Or are we left to just deal with their stupidity or selfishness. Is the fact that they have such a difficult time finding and keeping partners punishment enough? Or does that not work, since most never realize why they're alone?

Greetings whitekat:

Every incongruent action that any man does who claims an ability to lead others will somehow find its way beck to his doorstep with an impact that is capable of ushering in the worst of storms ever known to him.

Not all men willingly seize presenting opportunities for their internal mastering that is necessary. While some do. Just like not all females are willing to seize opportunities for growth. Indeed each man is doomed to fail and worse fall from his misperceived place of power when he chooses to ignore his lack of integrity that is acted out incongruently.

Suffice it say that eventually all men get the “steel boot” where it hurts the most. Denied failure has a way of teaching many lessons. If a man admits it or not. Take heart though as some men do listen and willingly examine their ways else hopelessness would reign eternally.

Iron sharpens iron!

(in reply to whitekat)

Post #: 8

RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:40:58 AM

LaTigresse

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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

quote:

ORIGINAL: whitekat
I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves.

Oh, the injustice...

Who punishes the "dominant"? The consequences of his or her own actions, basically.

This.

No one, and I mean NO ONE.........could ever be as hard on me as I am on myself.

_____________________________

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)

Post #: 9

RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:41:06 AM

heartcream

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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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Yeah I am of the mindset that feels punishment is stupid, archaic, damaging and not helpful. People dont need to be punished.

Reflections will come from external reality as a litmus test to what is going on within. But not to punish for what is there or not there, but to help bring in more self love, forgiveness, compassion and understanding.

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(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 10

RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:41:24 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Here's how this works:

The boy's job is to obey Me. That's what he signed up for.

My job is to have the authority. That's what I signed up for.

Ergo, while it is possible for him to disobey Me, it isn't possible for Me to disobey him, as he does not make the decisions or hold the power in the dynamic.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 7/15/2010 12:02:23 PM >

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RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:47:31 AM

loverly

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Joined: 1/23/2004
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just my thoughts... Wouldnt the Dominant ( if He was true enough to himself and who he is ) punish Himself just knowing that he made a mistake? Especially when people other than just him are effected?

and in reading further .. for me , since i am an individual, i have my limits on what is forgivable and what is not and act accordingly. We all need a chance to learn and grow and mistakes happen in this process. Each person being open and communicating needs and with a true caring and love between them should help in keeping mistakes to a minimum for the most part i think.

And in the end... why ever would there be anything to be punished for? as adults i would think guidence and openness in learning who we are with and likes and preferences would be paramount and not doing things on purpose for any reason where unhappiness or disapointment was necessary. i am in this to make someones life the HAPPIEST He ever imiagined.. the same as He is for me.

course... i also believe that the Good Girls get the BEST spankings.. so there you go ... lol

(in reply to Rogue886)

Post #: 12

RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:55:30 AM

DesFIP

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Punishment is the same for both sides of the kneel. The loss of some amount of love, trust, respect, liking, and so on. You screw up, you have to repair the damage and earn the right to move on again by figuring out why you messed up, talking about it, and finding a solution so it doesn't happen again.

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RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:56:36 AM

myotherself

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Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

I'm with Magik on this one. I don't want a punishment-based relationship. I tried one once, and I found it to be humiliating in all the wrong ways.

As in any relationship, if I screw up then I'd hope we'd discuss it and work through the fall-out. Similarly, if he screws up I'd expect to do the same.

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There's nowt so queer as folk

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RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 11:57:35 AM

LadyCimarron

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Joined: 12/29/2009
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Let's say I work for a business owner. If I am late to work he can punish me (reprimand, pay dock). Now, who punishes him when HE is late to work? No one, right? He may suffer a personal sense of loss in that his employees are well aware that he is making the same mistake they have been punished for. He may also suffer a loss in productivity if he is frequently late or not present to supervise his employees. But no one punishes him, because he is the one in charge.

< Message edited by LadyCimarron -- 7/15/2010 11:58:13 AM >

(in reply to whitekat)

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RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 12:01:02 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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We all make mistakes. One thing that, for me, reinforces my recognition of myself as a dominant personality is that, when such mistakes are brought to my awareness, -I- accept the responsibility for resolving any issues brought about by my errors. As I've mentioned on other threads, I don't really "do" punishment... discipline and re-education... absolutely, but not punishment.

I look at my own mistakes as opportunities for discipline and re-education on my own part... the difference is, if someone -else- had to reinforce that discipline, or push me to re-educate myself so as not to make the same mistakes, I wouldn't be very effective as a dominant individual. That doesn't mean that I won't ask for help if I've made a mistake that I can't sort out myself... but it does mean that, when it comes to figuring out who disciplines me, it had better be -me-, or it's my opinion that I wouldn't belong in the driver's seat of anyone else's life.

Calla

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RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 12:09:51 PM

antinomy

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Joined: 3/7/2008
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Who punishes the dominant? I suspect it depends on the situation, and the infraction, and the type of dom we are talking about, and the relationship, and so many other things that it's impossible to really answer this.

Would I want to punish my dominant? Heck no, it's not the way the power exchange flows for me. However, would I want to be able to talk to my dom when I think he's made a mistake? No, I sort of rather demand it. I would not be in a relationship with a dominant that did not want that from me. A dom that considers himself beyond reproach by a submissive, in my opinion, either considers himself infallible (ummmm, yet to meet one of those); and/or does not value the submissive's opinion or want it expressed. Now, that dynamic may work for some. Not so much for others. I feel I have a responsibility to a dominant of mine, to help him excel, and be his best in all walks of life. If I truly believe he's made a mistake, I tell him, respectfully, and with the aim of being constructive, not critical. Up to him what he does with my opinion. But, at least I know I have given him something to think about, should he chose to.

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RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 12:11:46 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: whitekat

So there's various threads about 'how should I punish her for X' and 'What's the worst punishment you've gotten' but what I want to know is who punishes the dominant for their infractions?

I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves.

whitekat,

Asshattery doesn't discriminate. There are heaps of people that have an inability to admit their own mistakes and shortcomings. They lean on their ego and take comfort in the 'rightness' the role affords in their dynamics. The solution is simple. Avoid him.

quote:

Who corrects their bad behaviors? Or are we left to just deal with their stupidity or selfishness. Is the fact that they have such a difficult time finding and keeping partners punishment enough? Or does that not work, since most never realize why they're alone?

In a perfect world I smile sweetly and ignore the disparity and glaringly obvious that he's elected to sidestep. It depends on the degree and whether I'm getting nailed over the same issue he refuses to acknowledge on his end. If I were ideal I'd ignore it and simply let it roll off my back but I'm not. This will play out in a few ways. The best approach being a heartfelt discussion that allows both to express themselves candidly without upset. But this isn't a fairytale and I'm no Cinderella.

That brings me to option three and it usually has unpleasant consequences but I ignore them to make my point. This results in my unspooling, his placing me back on the spool, and the inevitable discussion that we need to have. I'm not a fan of that approach, but then again no one pairing with me is looking for a waif or docility. I'm anything but. And at that point I'm more tactical in my comments and confronting the issue head on. I don't seek to correct, but to inform and state my case. End of story.

Punishment in itself is a flawed concept in my opinion. Anyone that's raised a child learns this early on. It is the de facto option for those that are ignorant in other forms of behavior modification. If my slavery cannot be predicated on a willingness and ability to obey him without threat or consequence, then we need to rethink our dynamic in my opinion. I'm left to wonder at what point does the individual behave as instructed because he desires such. If he must routinely ratify his role through a necessary show of force to achieve compliance, I'd have sincere doubts regarding his effectiveness as a leader and her subjugation to him. However, I recognize that force is a valid staple of some dynamics and one both thrive on as well. It just isn't my bend.

In all fairness I shouldn't have to correct him. I'm keenly aware when my behavior is unbecoming and most intelligent and self aware individuals can say the same. I can't control him because I've agreed to be subject to his rule. Which is why I place a heavy emphasis on selecting the right person for the role. Benevolent and conscientious leadership is not a hallmark of most. And to this I will candidly admit that some dominants are more interested in owning and controlling their property than demonstrating effective leadership worth emulating. As with all things, choose wisely.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to whitekat)

Post #: 18

RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 12:32:02 PM

AQuietSimpleMan

Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline

~FR~

If you feel your Partner needs to be held to the same rules as you do.... maybe BDSM wasn't the route to go.

I can ASSURE you I correct myself more often than I ever correct my girl.

We do not have a Punishment Dynamic in this house really.... what we do have is that she gave Authority of herself over to me. It is my responsibility to be someone WORTH having that Authority.

Dom/sub Master/slave Owner/pet..... These are Power Dynamics. someone gives someone else all the power because they believe they are going to do the best thing with it.

If I punish someone it is because I have the Authority to do so.

I havn't given anyone the authority to punish me.

QSM

< Message edited by AQuietSimpleMan -- 7/15/2010 12:48:47 PM >

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RE: Who punishes the dominant? - 7/15/2010 12:47:28 PM

LadyCimarron

Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline

AQS, I think you just hit the nail on the head. It is a about a power exchange. Whether an adult needs to be punished or not is irrelevant if that is the power dynamic they have agreed to. The whole point in a power exchange is that one partner is yielding a level of authority and control to another partner. If they have agreed that part of that authority is the right to punish, then an adult sub would need to be punished simply because that is part of the agreed upon parameters of their relationship. The Dom/me does not get punished for the same reason, its part of the power exchange. And if a sub has a Domme that doesn't know how to discipline him or herself, then the sub should choose a better Dom/me

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)

Post #: 20

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