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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/16/2010 9:00:01 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

So, you are saying here that Martin Luther was an asshole and Pope Paul IV was an asshole. Knew them that well, did you?


Where the hell did you get that from what I posted?

quote:

Maybe not today but the Christian Church did throughout most of the history of Europe. Being flippant about it as you are only serves to render all the suffering as inconsequential. If you are ignorant of the history of the Church's long, systemic persecution of the Jews, there are plenty of books to be read on the subject. Attributing the persecution to just a few assholes reveals the shallowness of your knowledge.


If you want to tear your clothes and go after all the religions of the world for everything they have ever done wrong. Knock you socks off. I have better things to do with my time.





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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/16/2010 9:35:41 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

As usual Beck is full of shit...Romans killed him (assuming the story in the Bible is correct).


What I don't understand is why people get so worked up about it. Anyone who believes he died for our sins should understand that in order for him to die, someone else had to kill him. What difference does it make if it was the Romans or the Jews. It was all part of the plan and "Jesus was acquitted for my sins" just doesn't have the same ring to it.  If they don't believe in the bible then who the fuck cares who killed some random carpenter 2000 years ago. Personally I think people use it, to justify their hatred toward others.




"What difference does it make if it was the Romans or the Jews."

Ever heard of the "Passion Play" or pogroms or the Persecution of Jews????!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews


In the Middle Ages Antisemitism in Europe was religious. Though not part of Roman Catholic dogma, many Christians, including members of the clergy, have held the Jewish people collectively responsible for killing Jesus, a practice originated by Melito of Sardis. As stated in the Boston College Guide to Passion Plays, "Over the course of time, Christians began to accept... that the Jewish people as a whole were responsible for killing Jesus. According to this interpretation, both the Jews present at Jesus Christ's death and the Jewish people collectively and for all time, have committed the sin of deicide, or God-killing. For 1900 years of Christian-Jewish history, the charge of deicide has led to hatred, violence against and murder of Jews in Europe and America."[1]

During the High Middle Ages in Europe there was full-scale persecution in many places, with blood libels, expulsions, forced conversions and massacres. An underlying source of prejudice against Jews in Europe was religious. Jews were frequently massacred and exiled from various European countries. The persecution hit its first peak during the Crusades. In the First Crusade (1096) flourishing communities on the Rhine and the Danube were utterly destroyed; see German Crusade, 1096. In the Second Crusade (1147) the Jews in France were subject to frequent massacres. The Jews were also subjected to attacks by the Shepherds' Crusades of 1251 and 1320. The Crusades were followed by expulsions, including in, 1290, the banishing of all English Jews; in 1396, 100,000 Jews were expelled from France; and, in 1421 thousands were expelled from Austria. Many of the expelled Jews fled to Poland.[2]

There is a reason why the Pope and other church leaders dicided to stop saying that Jews killed Jesus or was somehow involved.

Once again, you prove you have no fucking clue what you are talking about

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/16/2010 9:36:57 PM >


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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/16/2010 9:37:44 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
you are saying here that Martin Luther was an asshole...

Well, it is safe to say that Martin Luther was an asshole.

" First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians..." On the Jews and Their Lies, 1543 by Martin Luther

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 5:03:17 AM   
Moonhead


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And German.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 5:37:55 AM   
thishereboi


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And once again you prove that taking a cheap shot is more important than actually discussing something. I would explain my post, since you obviously missed the point but to be honest you are just not worth the time.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 6:01:14 AM   
wpf0027


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Did the Romans Kill Jesus?  Did the Jews kill Jesus?  Who cares who actually raised the cross?  The truth of the matter is we all killed Jesus.  All of humanity.  Without our sinfulness he would not have needed to die for our sins.  He died so we could be saved according to God's plan.  I think we should just be thankful that God cared enough for us lowly creatures that he gave us a path to salvation.  Jews, Christians, Muslims, atheists even Glenn Beck (although he is a bit of a prick that should think before he speaks) are God's children.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 6:02:49 AM   
mnottertail


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Knock it off, guy.  You're killin' me here, with this shit. 

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 6:59:41 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

As usual Beck is full of shit...Romans killed him (assuming the story in the Bible is correct).


What I don't understand is why people get so worked up about it. Anyone who believes he died for our sins should understand that in order for him to die, someone else had to kill him. What difference does it make if it was the Romans or the Jews. It was all part of the plan and "Jesus was acquitted for my sins" just doesn't have the same ring to it.  If they don't believe in the bible then who the fuck cares who killed some random carpenter 2000 years ago. Personally I think people use it, to justify their hatred toward others.



Deep shit.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 7:38:16 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Did the Romans Kill Jesus? Did the Jews kill Jesus? Who cares who actually raised the cross? The truth of the matter is we all killed Jesus. All of humanity. Without our sinfulness he would not have needed to die for our sins.
Dude...i generally don't speak for others, but i feel fairly safe in saying not a freaking one of us was born at that time.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 7:49:31 AM   
wpf0027


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quote:

Dude...i generally don't speak for others, but i feel fairly safe in saying not a freaking one of us was born at that time.


I would hope you know that is not what I meant. 

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 7:54:23 AM   
wpf0027


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What I meant and I am sorry if I did not say it in a way that you understood is that Jesus died for the Jews and the Gentiles.  All of us.  Anyone from the first human to walk upright till now and on until the end.  God chose the way he died to make a statement.  To save souls not so that we would fight over everything.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 8:13:54 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

If you want to tear your clothes and go after all the religions of the world for everything they have ever done wrong. Knock you socks off. I have better things to do with my time.



I am not going "after all the religions of the world for everything they have ever done wrong." I am addressing the topic of this thread: the charge of deicide leveled against the Jews by Christians and the consequences. The thread is not about you and what you have to do with your time. That seems a pretty self-absorbed attitude and I wonder why you even bother answering my post. I would prefer you replied to the substance of what i say and not tell me how precious your time is. May I suggest you establish your own thread about what you do with your time. Perhaps you can place it in the forum for Polls and Other Random Stupidity. If you don't like what I write feel free to debate the issues .... or block me.

Fortunately, your ignorance of and callous indifference to the great religious catastrophe of the Twentieth Century is not shared by Church leaders who are willing to examine the role played by the Church in the Shoah. Pope Pius XII never spoke out to condemn Hitler. Hitler was never excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church despite the horrors he perpetrated.

The Pope probably had better things to do with his time

quote:

Cardinal Joseph Bernardin, who was the Archbishop of Chicago from 1982 until his death in 1996 said, “…There is little doubt that classical Christian presentations of Jews and Judaism were a central factor in generating popular support for the Nazi endeavor, along with economic greed, religious and political nationalism, and ordinary human fear. For many baptized Christians, traditional Christian beliefs about Jews and Judaism constituted the primary motivation for their support, active or tacit, of the Nazi movement. Some even went so far as to define the Nazi struggle against the Jews in explicitly religious and theological terms. In the Church today, we must not minimize the extent of Christian collaboration with Hitler and his associates…”


http://www.hatikvah-center.org/events/Nostra_Aetate.html

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 8:22:28 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wpf0027

What I meant and I am sorry if I did not say it in a way that you understood is that Jesus died for the Jews and the Gentiles.  All of us.  Anyone from the first human to walk upright till now and on until the end.  God chose the way he died to make a statement.  To save souls not so that we would fight over everything.


If God so loved the world why does he not just reach out and forgive all human trespesses?

If God so loved the world why does he permit Evil?

Ah yes, I have heard this answer before. "God gave us free will."

How free is a will if it is punished eternally for making wrong choices?

Man still makes choices, you say. Is God playing a "gotcha" game with man?

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 8:26:30 AM   
wpf0027


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quote:

If God so loved the world why does he not just reach out and forgive all human trespesses?

If God so loved the world why does he permit Evil?

Ah yes, I have heard this answer before. "God gave us free will."

How free is a will if it is punished eternally for making wrong choices?

Man still makes choices, you say. Is God playing a "gotcha" game with man?


Boy I wish I had the answers to those question.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 8:28:53 AM   
kinkbound


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quote:

If God so loved the world why does he not just reach out and forgive all human trespesses?

If God so loved the world why does he permit Evil?

Ah yes, I have heard this answer before. "God gave us free will."

How free is a will if it is punished eternally for making wrong choices?

Man still makes choices, you say. Is God playing a "gotcha" game with man?


Religion is based upon emotion, not logic.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 8:35:39 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

How free is a will if it is punished eternally for making wrong choices?

Man still makes choices, you say. Is God playing a "gotcha" game with man?
Wrong choices are forgiven if the sinner repents and accepts His word.






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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 8:43:15 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wpf0027

quote:

If God so loved the world why does he not just reach out and forgive all human trespesses?

If God so loved the world why does he permit Evil?

Ah yes, I have heard this answer before. "God gave us free will."

How free is a will if it is punished eternally for making wrong choices?

Man still makes choices, you say. Is God playing a "gotcha" game with man?


Boy I wish I had the answers to those question.



Yeah, me too.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 8:45:51 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

How free is a will if it is punished eternally for making wrong choices?

Man still makes choices, you say. Is God playing a "gotcha" game with man?
Wrong choices are forgiven if the sinner repents and accepts His word.




Then, are they truly free or conditional?


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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 8:47:48 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wpf0027

quote:

Dude...i generally don't speak for others, but i feel fairly safe in saying not a freaking one of us was born at that time.



I would hope you know that is not what I meant. 


Of course i know what you meant, but do you see how it fits into this thread?
Blame the sins of humanity for the death of Christ. Blame the Jews and/or the Romans for His excution. Blame the Germans for the Holocaust. Blame one race for the repression of another.

Blame, blame and blame again, even though most of us were not born yet!

The bottom line, i will not carry the sins of my father, nor should i. Nor should you. It is not a burden i need, want or deserve. Our burden is to learn from the past, not carry the guilt or responsibility.


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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 8:52:18 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

How free is a will if it is punished eternally for making wrong choices?

Man still makes choices, you say. Is God playing a "gotcha" game with man?
Wrong choices are forgiven if the sinner repents and accepts His word.




Then, are they truly free or conditional?

You are free to live life as you choose. HOW you live has consequences, be they good or bad. And this is not just a God thing.
In the event God does not exist (disclaimer in case God is reading this....it is JUST a hypothetical!) there would STILL be consequences to our actions.


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