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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 8:58:16 AM   
wpf0027


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Status: offline 		I guess we just disagree on some points and agree on others.  I don't blame the Romans or Jews that is why  I said why does it matter who raised the cross.  I don't blame any one person or group of people.  I really don't blame per se .  I just accept responsibility.  The main tenet of Christianity is that Christ died for "our" sins.  Not the sin of killing him but the sin we commit everyday.  As you said "repent and accept his word".  If you do that you are saved by your faith in his grace.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 9:02:26 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

How free is a will if it is punished eternally for making wrong choices?

Man still makes choices, you say. Is God playing a "gotcha" game with man?
Wrong choices are forgiven if the sinner repents and accepts His word.




Then, are they truly free or conditional?

You are free to live life as you choose. HOW you live has consequences, be they good or bad. And this is not just a God thing.
In the event God does not exist (disclaimer in case God is reading this....it is JUST a hypothetical!) there would STILL be consequences to our actions.



Good answer. But for most Christians (disclaimer in case thishereboi is reading ... I am using Christians here because it is their dogma) the consequences are so horrendous the choice is a no brainer, so it is not really a choice I don't think.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 9:04:19 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

the consequences are so horrendous the choice is a no brainer, so it is not really a choice I don't think.
Vince...are you saying God makes it rather easy?

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 9:14:37 AM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		Neither do most folks.Almost all Christians feel the same way.

That is not the point.

It`s the unhinged and easily duped reactionary types,looking for excuses to hate and hurt that will use these stories to justify it. That,.............. is the point of NOT spreading the blood libel.

We don`t have to go through history to point out how dangerous they are or how possible it is for them to do great harm.

Not all Nazis felt that way either.But this story most certainly did influence them or enough of them to execute the Holocaust and/or justify it.

I can`t believe some are asking what difference it makes.Holy fuck`n shit.

It`s made a big difference to millions and millions of Jews, for thousands of years.

I`ll also point out that the unhinged and easily duped reactionary types are Beck`s primary target audience.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/17/2010 9:29:47 AM >

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 9:27:38 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wpf0027

I guess we just disagree on some points and agree on others.  I don't blame the Romans or Jews that is why  I said why does it matter who raised the cross.
agree!
quote:

I don't blame any one person or group of people.  I really don't blame per se .  I just accept responsibility.
Call it semantics, but if you accept responsibility, them you are accepting the blame, imho.

I was not there. I was not alive. I had not sinned. I accept NO responsibility, but i sure as hell bask in the results.

Look at it this way...i did not create the sun. I was not there when it was made. I was not huddled down with teeth chattering as God made a fireball to keep us from freezing our butts off. But that does not stop me from loving the feeling as it shines.
And because I need the sun, do i feel guilt, responsibility and blame because the heat from the sun kills others? No, i don't. I feel bad for the loss of life, but i accept no responsibility



< Message edited by sirsholly -- 7/17/2010 9:29:09 AM >

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 9:35:13 AM   
thornhappy


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Status: offline 		This isn't to you specifically, Holly, but to all Christians on the thread - I know many ministers/pastors/priests, etc. would regard WIITWD a sin, perversion, etc.  Forbidden activity, even though it's done consensually.  Do these activities put your eternal life at risk?

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 9:35:16 AM   
wpf0027


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Status: offline 		Ok.  That is your perspective.  I have mine.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 10:09:51 AM   
calamitysandra


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Status: offline 		If G-d is all powerful, why did Jesus need to die in order for our sins to be forgiven if we repent?

He could simply forgive the remorseful, without sacrificing his son in the deal.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 10:22:18 AM   
dcnovice


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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 10:37:36 AM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		I so love how this has "evolved"(ha-ha) into a theology discussion.


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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 11:15:57 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

the consequences are so horrendous the choice is a no brainer, so it is not really a choice I don't think.
Vince...are you saying God makes it rather easy?


Oh, you are so clever, holly! I love it.

What I am saying is that it is not really a choice. Like holding a gun to my head and saying "your money or your life?" Is that really a choice? I don't think so. God is holding a gun to your head.

But here's another problem: "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." I Corinthians 2:14

The Spirit (Grace) comes from God. Those without Grace cannot choose. God elects those who have his Grace. Sounds more like predestination than free will. Ya think?

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/17/2010 11:34:26 AM >

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 11:21:48 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I so love how this has "evolved"(ha-ha) into a theology discussion.



Me too. Can't imagine a better topic for friendly discussion. It is when it becomes unfriendly, when some try to change minds of others, that I pick up my fielder's mitt and go home for dinner.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 11:33:16 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Dude, I realize that you have your own definitions of things, but doesn't it trouble you at times that everyone else has a consistent definition that conflicts with yours?

Nope, does not trouble me at all. I am Rule, a rare supergenius. It is inevitable that people who lack my talent adhere to wrong definitions as a consequence of having a faulty perception of reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
And in dozens of years of attending synagogues in Utah, Maine, and Colorado, I have yet to see one that worships Abraham.

Everybody who practices circumcision worships Abraham. Duh! Please do not be dense. Simply admit the truth. Circumcising himself and his people was Abrahams own idea. In fact it must be argued that by circumcising himself and his people Abraham acted in direct contradiction to the command by omission of the pagan god who ruled gods and mortals at that time as well as against the will of one of the earlier ruling pagan gods. The pagan god who ruled at Abrahams time commanded him to circumcise Isaac. He did not command him to circumcise himself nor did he command him to circumcise his people. Abraham blasphemed by circumcising anyone other than Isaac. His descendants have been blaspheming ever since by circumcising their male progeny.

Abrahamic Jews are always opposing the Divine. When someone gets a disease, they invent a medicine to get him well again. When the Divine sends armies to conquer them to end their blasphemy of the practice of circumcision, they resist these armies and adhere to their own religion instead of accepting the new religion that the Divine sent them.

They are all descended from people who if not for being circumcised would otherwise have died from the sexually transmitted diseases that were sent by the Divine to kill them. Thus they are all abominations that ought not to have been born. Their only salvation lies in repenting from their Abrahamic blasphemy and ensuring that the practice of circumcision stops and thereby that subsequent generations do not continue this particular blasphemy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
We worship G-d, the one you call Divine.  And Abraham responded to G-d, not some pagan deity.

Pff. All people are anosognosiacs, even me, even the pagan gods themselves. Your concept of both the Divine and of the pagan gods is at fault. In other words your definitions of concepts are at fault (see the top of this post). The truth that you perceive was and is not the reality. You lot can tell yourselves untruths and being anosognosiacs believe it to be the truth - and consequently be convincing liars. I cannot for I perceive reality as it is.


< Message edited by Rule -- 7/17/2010 11:35:24 AM >

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 11:36:35 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

If G-d is all powerful, why did Jesus need to die in order for our sins to be forgiven if we repent?

He could simply forgive the remorseful, without sacrificing his son in the deal.


If god is so powerful why does he permit natural Evil in this world? Innocent children dying from earthquakes, for example.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 11:46:34 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		"For many baptized Christians, traditional Christian beliefs about Jews and Judaism constituted the primary motivation for their support, active or tacit, of the Nazi movement. Some even went so far as to define the Nazi struggle against the Jews in explicitly religious and theological terms."

It still took the Muslim brotherhood to change the Nazi policy from extradition/isolation of the Jews to "the Final Solution".

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 11:50:27 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Or the Iraelis to adopt South Africa`s apartide behaviour.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 12:12:18 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
If G-d is all powerful, why did Jesus need to die in order for our sins to be forgiven if we repent?

The Divine is not all powerful, nor were the pagan gods. Wish for a polar bear when you are standing in the Sahara. See if you get one. Wish for one while in Greenland and it is doable and your wish might be granted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
why did Jesus need to die in order for our sins to be forgiven if we repent?

To convince you of its truth that the spiritual fine for your wrongdoing has already been paid.
(It only works on condition that one accepts and believes this.)

< Message edited by Rule -- 7/17/2010 12:19:39 PM >

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 12:18:06 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
But here's another problem: "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." I Corinthians 2:14

Verily, this is a truth. All I say is foolishness to those who are anosognosiacs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The Spirit (Grace) comes from God. Those without Grace cannot choose. God elects those who have his Grace. Sounds more like predestination than free will. Ya think?

Verily, this is gibberish. I do not comprehend any of it - and that is not because I am dumb.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 12:21:09 PM   
Rule


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Having read sirsholly's posts in this thread, I say that she is wise.

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RE: Glenn Beck Reminds Us That Jews Killed Jesus - 7/17/2010 12:22:00 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

It still took the Muslim brotherhood to change the Nazi policy from extradition/isolation of the Jews to "the Final Solution".
Bizarre revisionist bullshit 

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