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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/26/2010 4:43:35 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Dude I don't get "offended" by social statistics.

Dudette you certainly seem "offended".

If you think that kids in single parent households have anywhere near the same advantage of kids in stable two parent households you're crazy.

If you think that kids who live in poverty have anywhere near the same advantage of kids who are not living in poverty you are crazy.

1. wtf is your definition of offended?

This does not look like you approve
"Meh I think it would be cool if Obama spoke about that too. 70% of black kids are born out of wedlock and that's really fucking bad."

2. kids in single parent households are more likely to live in poverty which was a large chunk of my original point

So rich kids living in a single parent household do not offend you?

3. fix yo formatting bro

If it bothers you that much sis perhaps you might consider not responding

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/26/2010 4:47:43 PM

Elisabella

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quote:

1. wtf is your definition of offended?

This does not look like you approve
"Meh I think it would be cool if Obama spoke about that too. 70% of black kids are born out of wedlock and that's really fucking bad."

2. kids in single parent households are more likely to live in poverty which was a large chunk of my original point

So rich kids living in a single parent household do not offend you?

3. fix yo formatting bro

If it bothers you that much sis perhaps you might consider not responding

1. Abstract disapproval of something that really doesn't affect me isn't the same as taking offense imo but if you want to say I'm offended by people making bad choices I guess that works.

2. Not to the same extent or for the same reasons. Comparing single parents who are able to comfortably give their children every material advantage with an epidemic of out of wedlock babies in communities blighted with poverty and decay is really fucking cheap imo.

3. No worries mate I'll just do this neat little 123 thing we've got going on.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/26/2010 4:52:35 PM

xXsoumisXx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirJeanLafitte

I have not read all of the replies, but I will say that I beleive that there was a time that AA was needed, but that time is past. At this point in our history, we need to eliminate all references to race when making decisions.. about anything.

I am from a place that was mostly white. Some minorities but very few black people. The local plants would hire any black person on the spot because they had to. (within reason, they still had to pass physicals and drug tests) They even asked these few people if they knew of others that would like a nice plant job..becuase they really had to. My sister married one of these people offered a job, so that is how I know.

I feel this way about unions too...!

Sorry All! This is my post!

(in reply to SirJeanLafitte)

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/26/2010 5:12:14 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXsoumisXx

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirJeanLafitte

I have not read all of the replies, but I will say that I beleive that there was a time that AA was needed, but that time is past. At this point in our history, we need to eliminate all references to race when making decisions.. about anything.

I am from a place that was mostly white. Some minorities but very few black people. The local plants would hire any black person on the spot because they had to. (within reason, they still had to pass physicals and drug tests) They even asked these few people if they knew of others that would like a nice plant job..becuase they really had to. My sister married one of these people offered a job, so that is how I know.

I feel this way about unions too...!

Sorry All! This is my post!

What exactly has changed in the mindset of management that makes unions unnecessary?

(in reply to xXsoumisXx)

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/26/2010 5:30:33 PM

xXsoumisXx

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@thomsonx

This is not a union thread, but...

Things have changed dramamtically since unions began.

We do not have children working, we get overtime, we get sick days, vacations.. (generalizing here i know)

No things are not perfect, but I see unions as being a large part of the reason factories like to relocate elsewhere.

Look at the car companies.. airlines..etc. Yes, management makes way too much money in relation to workers pay.. and that needs to be addressed, but imo, unions have had their time just like AA.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/26/2010 5:37:02 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXsoumisXx

@thomsonx

This is not a union thread, but...

Things have changed dramamtically since unions began.

We do not have children working,

This was addressed by child labor laws not unions

we get overtime, we get sick days, vacations.. (generalizing here i know)

No things are not perfect, but I see unions as being a large part of the reason factories like to relocate elsewhere.

Of course they are. There are no unions in the countries that the manufacturers move to.
Management cannot fuck the union workers here so they go where they can fuck non union workers. So my point that management has not changed is not challanged by your opinion.

Look at the car companies.. airlines..etc. Yes, management makes way too much money in relation to workers pay.. and that needs to be addressed, but imo, unions have had their time just like AA.

How does one address those problems without unions and/or a.a.?

(in reply to xXsoumisXx)

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/27/2010 5:05:22 AM

truckinslave

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quote:

If you think that kids who live in poverty have anywhere near the same advantage of kids who are not living in poverty you are crazy.

You don't seem to understand that the single most reliable identifier of childhood poverty is not race but being born to a single woman.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/27/2010 5:07:58 AM

truckinslave

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quote:

Comparing single parents who are able to comfortably give their children every material advantage with an epidemic of out of wedlock babies in communities blighted with poverty and decay is really fucking cheap imo.

Some of these lefties would argue the sky and the sea are equivalent because they're both blue.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/27/2010 6:47:19 AM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXsoumisXx

@thomsonx

This is not a union thread, but...

Things have changed dramamtically since unions began.

We do not have children working, we get overtime, we get sick days, vacations.. (generalizing here i know)

No things are not perfect, but I see unions as being a large part of the reason factories like to relocate elsewhere.

Look at the car companies.. airlines..etc. Yes, management makes way too much money in relation to workers pay.. and that needs to be addressed, but imo, unions have had their time just like AA.

The well financed efforts by corporate America and the American Chamber of Commerce to roll back most every hard won achievement hasn`t stopped.

When that does stop,maybe we can consider an alternative.

What? You don`t think those that could, wouldn`t roll back safety rules given the chance?

Do you really think that an employer wouldn`t make their employees work ten,twelve hour days (50-60 hour weeks) if they could force them to?

Or take away your overtime pay.......

http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/webfeatures_viewpoints_final_overtime_regulations/

"The U.S. Department of Labor has issued a final rule that changes the legal exemptions from the right to overtime pay for executives, professionals and administrative employees. Many in Congress, the press, and the public have asked EPI to estimate how many employees will lose overtime pay or the right to receive it as a result of this new rule."

"All in all, the rule means longer hours and less pay for millions of workers – and more litigation for our entire economy. A number of things about the rule are immediately clear:"

~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/06/AR2010040601531.html

The only folks keeping track and making sure safety rules are being followed are unions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Consider that the BP oil spill was a result of cutting corners on safety and connect the fucking dots.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/27/2010 6:48:02 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

If you think that kids who live in poverty have anywhere near the same advantage of kids who are not living in poverty you are crazy.

You don't seem to understand that the single most reliable identifier of childhood poverty is not race but being born to a single woman.

Only if that single woman comes from a poverty background.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/27/2010 8:37:09 AM

truckinslave

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Only if that single woman comes from a poverty background.

I have no idea if that's true; but I'll admit that there is a certain plausibility to it. Poverty certainly is a self-perpetuating cycle of people making bad decisions and then teaching their children how to do the same thing.

Which would also imply that, statistically, fewer successful women have children out of wedlock. Few unmarried teens having babies make it out of the 'hood. It's just a killer.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/27/2010 10:22:12 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I will answer the OP's question with pesonal experience.
I applied with the Dept of Natural Resources in the FL keys as I was getting out of grad school in Marine Biology. After meeting with the folks, the interviewer looked me right in the eye and said "You are the most qualified entry level candidate I have seen in years but I cant hire you because of your race, this job is tied to affirmative action." I even went so far as to call a black friend that I had gone to school with to tell him about it but he had already taken a position in Seattle (near his home) That guy was the ONLY black biologist I have ever known. The job went unfilled.

The bottom line is this. If a person is denied a job because of race, the program is RACIST.

You have actively done this rant in favor of non white people all of your life I am sure
Now that you are getting a tiny taste of it you find it most distressing..."I feel your pain"

Seeing that I have 5 non white people (minor league ball players) living in my house now, I would say that you are full of shit.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/27/2010 10:31:03 AM

Hillwilliam

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I only knew of one. How can you say a program is racist if all you have to do is say "I want to major in.................." and that is your declared major? They dont even know what race you are when you turn in the paperwork. You could call it cultural if you wanted. A lot of minorities dont seem to be attracted to the field but I know of nothing that actively OR passively discourages anyone from enrolling in it. I base this on 7 years of college, 4 years of teaching at the University level and 3 years teaching at the secondary level.

You are, however getting off the premise of the thread. Id AA racist. I say that ANYTHING that actively works to deny opportunity to a person based ONLY on their race is racist.

What some of you folks are saying is that, basically, only white people can be racist.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/29/2010 5:42:08 PM

thompsonx

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Which would also imply that, statistically, fewer successful women have children out of wedlock.

Perhaps that is because there are fewer successful women than those who are poverty stricken.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/29/2010 5:45:36 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

You have actively done this rant in favor of non white people all of your life I am sure
Now that you are getting a tiny taste of it you find it most distressing..."I feel your pain"

Seeing that I have 5 non white people (minor league ball players) living in my house now, I would say that you are full of shit.

How exactly does having five professional athletes renting from you change my statement?

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/29/2010 7:18:48 PM

MissAsylum

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its funny...AA covers more than race. Granted, i should have put that in my OP, and my apologies for that. My point is that it seems the race seems to be the only thing people are concerned with when it comes to AA. genders, sexual orientation, physical disabilities...they all are included.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/29/2010 7:32:17 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

its funny...AA covers more than race. Granted, i should have put that in my OP, and my apologies for that. My point is that it seems the race seems to be the only thing people are concerned with when it comes to AA. genders, sexual orientation, physical disabilities...they all are included.

The bigots don't care about that all they want to do is whine about how the white man has been held down for the past 400 years by people of color.
All the kewel jobs like broom pusher or dish washer are all taken and all that is left for them is shit jobs that only pay six figures a year or more.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/29/2010 8:47:43 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

its funny...AA covers more than race. Granted, i should have put that in my OP, and my apologies for that. My point is that it seems the race seems to be the only thing people are concerned with when it comes to AA. genders, sexual orientation, physical disabilities...they all are included.

None of the mentioned examples should be the reason for aid... If my son is in a wheelchair and I can afford to pay his way then I should... If he can afford to pay his on way then he should.

All that should matter is who, according to their scholastic ability, deserves the help if they could not afford it on their own.

If this a black man…red man…yellow man, woman, paraplegic…gay straight or in-between it should not be considered. Who could complain and call it favoring anyone except those that deserve the chance.

Sure there will still be those that call it racists because it may help one group more than the other but thinking people will understand and I’m sure approve.

Butch

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/30/2010 5:44:11 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

its funny...AA covers more than race. Granted, i should have put that in my OP, and my apologies for that. My point is that it seems the race seems to be the only thing people are concerned with when it comes to AA. genders, sexual orientation, physical disabilities...they all are included.

None of the mentioned examples should be the reason for aid... If my son is in a wheelchair and I can afford to pay his way then I should... If he can afford to pay his on way then he should.

All that should matter is who, according to their scholastic ability, deserves the help if they could not afford it on their own.

If this a black man…red man…yellow man, woman, paraplegic…gay straight or in-between it should not be considered. Who could complain and call it favoring anyone except those that deserve the chance.

Sure there will still be those that call it racists because it may help one group more than the other but thinking people will understand and I’m sure approve.

Butch

For a hundred years from emancipation to a/a zero progress had been made.
For forty years from getting the vote to a/a women made zero progress.
It would appear that you feel that during that time none were sufficiently qualified.

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RE: So if Affirmative Action is supposedly racist.... - 7/30/2010 7:49:44 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I will answer the OP's question with pesonal experience.
I applied with the Dept of Natural Resources in the FL keys as I was getting out of grad school in Marine Biology. After meeting with the folks, the interviewer looked me right in the eye and said "You are the most qualified entry level candidate I have seen in years but I cant hire you because of your race, this job is tied to affirmative action." I even went so far as to call a black friend that I had gone to school with to tell him about it but he had already taken a position in Seattle (near his home) That guy was the ONLY black biologist I have ever known. The job went unfilled.

The bottom line is this. If a person is denied a job because of race, the program is RACIST.

Think you are blaming the wrong thing. I think that person in the Fla. Dept. of Nat Res was telling you that you were over qualified for the position since you already had a Graduate Degree.

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