RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 7:31:32 AM)

It is, Master Ron, and again, easily obtained.



thompsonx -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 7:32:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Assume much?

I rarely drink. I wouldnt miss it at all, except in my wallet.

I do smoke, i dont do drugs.

Nicotine and alcohol are not drugs in your world?

I advocate the use of medical pot.... great benefits. Im against the scientific community wanting to actually take pot, pull it apart, synthesize the components to add to other drugs.... talk about increasing costs all across the board for what a few tokes could do naturally.

I have yet to see a good argument beyond that for legalizing any drug.

How about ones right to do with ones own body as one chooses?





tazzygirl -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 7:33:11 AM)

Again, quote correctly and i will respond.



LadyPact -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 7:37:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRosalyn

OK, I'm going to step in and say this:

As long as our border with Mexico looks like this, we will never be able to control illegal immigration. And before y'all jump down my throat, I am only addressing one issue purposely. The only thing I am trying to do is to demonstrate how ineffective our border currently is.

These photos were taken by me on the US/Mexico Border near Palominas, Arizona. Yes, that cut barbed wire fence is our border, and in the second picture, the road in the left is in the US, and the one on the right is in Mexico.


It's not terrain that is any better or worse than the vehicles that we are using now in Iraq and Afghanistan.  It also isn't something that can't be flown over by helicopter. 

A permanent wall is still the more optimal idea.  However, that does take time to build.  In the meantime, there is nothing that says we can not patrol our boarders to protect them.  How this ever became about improving the quality of life for those born in Mexico as compared to protecting our own interests is beyond Me. 

Everybody is so quick to say who will build or who will patrol?  I'll bet there are unemployed people in at least four states who are not only in need of a job, but also believe in securing our boarders.  You also have the resource of the National Guard in all four of those states that could be doing this job right now.

The work and materials involved in actually building a wall would be one of the best things we could do for our economy.  It's not Mexico we're supposed to be looking out for here.



RacerJim -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 7:41:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
It's in "Fayetteville, we used to call it "Fayettenam" when I was in the Navy because everyone there was just back from or going to Vietnam. There must be 100,000 Troops there! And all the other Army Forts throughout the country.

That was forty years ago, sunshine. You have a much smaller army now, party due to a reliance on drones and long range artillery. The main reason you're getting your arses kicked by insurgents in a couple of middle eastern countries at the moment is your military no longer has the manpower to do anything effectively. Just how big is the border with Mexicon? Do you think your country is employing enough troops to secure that, even if they weren't needed for IED fodder elsewhere? Don't make me fucking laugh.


Thanks for making me laugh, you friggin brit LOSER!



RacerJim -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 7:45:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If they cross the border without a passport. Shoot on sight. The word will soon get out.


Execution without trial for a misdomeanor[8|]



For a felony.



tazzygirl -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 7:48:31 AM)

Its not a felony



thompsonx -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 7:53:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

We have been through this, thompson. Its not that cut and dry and you know it. As Master said to me last night "prove to me you are a US citizen". Anyone could gain access to a birth certificate, SS card, marriage license, ect. Thats all it takes to have "proof" and the employer is in the clear without having to know or admit a thing.


In the case you cited on the other thread the feds notified the employer that the s/s numbers of some of their employees were "irregular" and they had ten days to rectify it. He did not rectify the "irregularities" and they were busted,convicted and fined $10,750,000 and got 215 years in prison.



tazzygirl -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 7:55:19 AM)

In the cases.. more than one... the employer knew.. and did nothing.. hense getting the sentence they deserved. The one with the 215 years in prison offered SS numbers for their employees... brought them from the philipines.. and housed them. A bit more than just employing an alien you may suspect with a valid SS and ID.



thompsonx -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 7:57:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It is, Master Ron, and again, easily obtained.
Easily obtained but when the employer submits the paperwork to the feds and it bounces the employer then knows he is in violation of the law.




thompsonx -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 7:59:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Again, quote correctly and i will respond.

If you are unwilling or unable to respond to facts of course you can resort to pointing out spelling errors or your inability to read what I post because you do not like the format I use.




LadyPact -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 8:05:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

We have been through this, thompson. Its not that cut and dry and you know it. As Master said to me last night "prove to me you are a US citizen". Anyone could gain access to a birth certificate, SS card, marriage license, ect. Thats all it takes to have "proof" and the employer is in the clear without having to know or admit a thing.

You only hit one that is acceptable to verify that you are a US citizen for your I-9.  That's your social security card.  The birth certificate and marriage license won't do you any good.  The other form of ID has to be a picture ID issued by a local, state or federal agency.  A state ID card, Driver's License, or active Military or dependent ID card is supposed to be your primary identification when filling out your tax forms with your employer.  There's even a nice little box on the I-9 form that goes into "what if my name doesn't match the one on the social security card/what if I don't have a printed social security card?"  Before you are even permitted to work, it is the responsibility of the potential employee to take themselves to the Social Security office to request a new card.  In return, they receive a letter stamped by that office saying that their card is being mailed to them.  That letter can serve as a temporary verification that they are eligible to be employed in the US.

An immigrant/non US citizen is required to provied a Permanent Resident Card and Work permit number.



thompsonx -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 8:08:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In the cases.. more than one... the employer knew.. and did nothing.. hense getting the sentence they deserved. The one with the 215 years in prison offered SS numbers for their employees... brought them from the philipines.. and housed them. A bit more than just employing an alien you may suspect with a valid SS and ID.

Your exellent research skills brought to light that just suspecting invalid documents is insufficient grounds for prosecution of the employer but that the employer know or have reasonable knowledge that the employee have crossed the border illegally for the more draconian penalities to apply.
We have also left out the many other penalities (which were referenced in that thread) that would apply. The conspiracy charges for defrauding the government of taxes. The ricco statutes for ongoing criminal enterprises...so even the $250,000,000 and/or five years begin to pale in comparison.





vincentML -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 8:08:22 AM)

quote:

Everyone has hit the nail on the head. The issue is drugs.


You really think so?

Or is the issue panic and xenophobia? The United States has a long history of fear of foreign cultures (as if we do not easily assimilate them)

In 1924, motivated by the failure of Prohibition and supported by Labor Unions who wished to protect jobs for Americans, The US Congress passed the Immigration Restriction Act, restricting immigration quotas to 2% of the foreign population in the country in 1890. 1890!!

The Act was highly favorable to migration from NW Europe and discriminated intentionally against Italians, Jews, and Slavs - those dark, swarthy, smelly, unwashed people, living in crowded Ghettos and responsible for all the booze flowing into the Nation. All through the '20s Congress refused to reapportion itself so as to keep voting power away from the large cities where were the great unwashed from southern and eastern Europe who would have voted to ammend the Volsted Act so that 0.5% alcohol would not be the lower limit of an "intoxicatiing beverage."

Xenophobia is nothing new to "Nativist" Americans.

We have had open borders with Mexico and Canada for 230 years. Why so much panic now?

My guess is that terrorism and drugs are just a ruse to cloak our fear of foreign cultures changing the nature of the country. Why don't they speak English? (angst) My Italian grandparents never learned much English but we assimilated pretty well.

As Domiguy pointed out, all the anger is focused on the southern border, not the Canadian line. Why? Because the Latinos "are not like us."

Drugs? Terrorism? Nah. I disagree.

Xenophobia. OMG, we are being invaded by a foreign culture carried by "those dark, swarthy, smelly, unwashed people."

As I see it, the real issue is fear of invasion by the brown people.

The brown people are coming. Be afraid, be very afraid.



thishereboi -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 8:12:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It is, Master Ron, and again, easily obtained.


So we shouldn't worry about trying to enforce the law because you think it's easy to get fake id?



tazzygirl -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 8:12:36 AM)

True LP. But, in order to get a picture ID, those forms are acceptable.

For example.. in PA... the requirement without a picture ID in hand to gain another is the following...

LIST A:
Acceptable Forms of Identification for U.S. Citizens:
 Birth Certificate with raised seal (U.S. issued by an authorized government agency,
including U.S. territories or Puerto Rico. Non-U.S. Birth Certificates will not be accepted.)
 Certificate of U.S. Citizenship (INS Form N-560)
 Certificate of Naturalization (INS Form N-550 or N-570)
 Valid U.S. Passport
NOTE: Only valid Passports and original documents will be accepted. If the name on
your original document differs from your current name, you must provide
documentation that connects the names, such as an original Marriage Certificate,
Divorce Decree, or Court Order document.
LIST B:
Acceptable List of Documents for Proof of Residency for Applicants 18 Years
of Age or Older:
PLEASE NOTE
All documents must show the same name and date of birth, or an association between the
information on the documents. Additional documentation may be required if a connection between
documents cannot be established (e.g. Marriage Certificate, Court Order of name change, Divorce
Decree, etc.)
PUB 195US (11-09)
 W-2 Form
 Current Weapons Permit
 Current Utility Bills
(water, gas, electric, cable, etc.)
 Tax Records
 Lease Agreements
 Mortgage Documents

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/pub195us.pdf



tazzygirl -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 8:13:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It is, Master Ron, and again, easily obtained.


So we shouldn't worry about trying to enforce the law because you think it's easy to get fake id?



hmmm... im curious as to where i said such a thing, boi. Mind showing me the post?



thishereboi -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 8:19:10 AM)

quote:

As Domiguy pointed out, all the anger is focused on the southern border, not the Canadian line. Why? Because the Latinos "are not like us."


Well that could be because the living condition in Canada are not so terrible that people would be willing to do anything to get out of there. But don't let common sense get in the way of a good rant.

Speaking of xenophobia, has anyone seen kittin lately?



thishereboi -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 8:20:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It is, Master Ron, and again, easily obtained.


So we shouldn't worry about trying to enforce the law because you think it's easy to get fake id?



hmmm... im curious as to where i said such a thing, boi. Mind showing me the post?


Well everytime someone suggests enforcing it, you start talking about how easy it would be to get id, so what are you trying to say?



tazzygirl -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 8:22:53 AM)

I said that in response to the assumption that just because someone appears to be mexican, we cannot assume an employer knows that for a certainty since obtaining a valid ID care in the US with a picture on it is easy.

How you jumped to the conclusion that i say this everytime someone suggests enforcing the law is beyond me. Especially when i also have suggested, strongly, that we enforce the law.

Try drawing your conclusions with something beyond a crayon.



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