RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico?

RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (Full Version)

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realwhiteknight -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 10:49:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Are you fucking kidding me here? I could think of several ways off the top of my head. #1 We have advanced technology and can send people to the moon but we can't secure our own borders? How can we help other countries if we can't defend this one? Anyway, use the prisoners in the prisons and county jails to build the fence, they can work different shifts day and night, and have contractors working with them. There is no way that very many Americans would be willing to build a fence in a totally inhospitable condition. Treating prisoners in such a manner would probably be considered to be inhumane treatment. we really need illegals to build the fence. But won't the prisoners be unable to find work , as the illegals took their jobs??

Marini -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 10:54:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Are you fucking kidding me here? I could think of several ways off the top of my head. #1 We have advanced technology and can send people to the moon but we can't secure our own borders? How can we help other countries if we can't defend this one? Anyway, use the prisoners in the prisons and county jails to build the fence, they can work different shifts day and night, and have contractors working with them. There is no way that very many Americans would be willing to build a fence in a totally inhospitable condition. Treating prisoners in such a manner would probably be considered to be inhumane treatment. we really need illegals to build the fence. OMG! I totally agree with DG! Making the young and strong and able bodied prisoners in prison, actually work to HELP build up their country is not the American way! Even if they could get their sentences reduced. Let's not ask the millions of young and able bodied UNEMPLOYED Americans to do it! They are far too lazy! Who are we going to get to build the wall? We should get undocumented workers to build it! Many of them have skills in the construction area! Don't they always say, they do the work no-one else will do? Well they want to work, fucking let them build the wall! We can even recruit workers from all of South America! Hell, I don't think we need to even go to South America, I can get enough workers from the men that hang out in front of Home Depot's across the USA! They could build 2 or 3 walls by this time next year!

domiguy -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:03:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: realwhiteknight quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Are you fucking kidding me here? I could think of several ways off the top of my head. #1 We have advanced technology and can send people to the moon but we can't secure our own borders? How can we help other countries if we can't defend this one? Anyway, use the prisoners in the prisons and county jails to build the fence, they can work different shifts day and night, and have contractors working with them. There is no way that very many Americans would be willing to build a fence in a totally inhospitable condition. Treating prisoners in such a manner would probably be considered to be inhumane treatment. we really need illegals to build the fence. But won't the prisoners be unable to find work , as the illegals took their jobs?? It's quite the deep and twisted conundrum..We have all these "criminals" who were incarcerated for selling or possessing pot building a fence too keep out the very people that supplied them with the weed in the first place. We need to keep allowing these illegal immigrant pot growers into our country to insure a healthy and fresh group of future fence builders. There were 32,000 pot plants discovered in Wisconsin. Those illegals really get around. Maybe the problem is that Americans really dig their weed. I don't smoke weed but I could get ahold of some of that primo Wiscansinabis with one phone call. Thank God for the war on drugs. It is sooooo effective.

joether -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:04:19 PM)
Unfortunately, for the OP, the answer to his question is quite....complex. Which immediately removes 97% of the conservatives in this country from understanding. They need tiny sound bites and a silver bullet. Anything else, and you just watch their little brains drain from their heads. Its just that simple in their case. The first question is the simple one: How much is this all going to cost? Since, isn't the conservatives, who bitch every time the liberals spend money on America and Americans? And if conservatives want to spend money, that means they have to come to the bargaining table like adults. They want huge gobs of goverment money (read: tax payer money), little over-sight, and few accountants for the books. If you need to know why, just look up 'Iraq' in the US History books. The cost for walls, persons, and technology will simply be staggering. And what do we, the other 46 states, who dont share a border with Mexico get out of all this? Not very much... So yes, build a 40-80 foot tall wall, along with sensors underground to detect tunneling down to 1500 feet below the Earth, and other assortment of nasty surprises along 1900+ miles of land. On top of that, hiring several thousands of additional border security guards to man the posts, walls, and interceptions. We could even have some predator drones flying above (like they do now), to add in the interceptions. This all costs a ton of money! Not everyone, crossing the border in Mexico, is a Mexican. In fact, the majority aren't Mexican citizens. While dealing with the drug cartels in Mexico would help problems there, that is quite frankly, Mexico's problem. If they invited us to help, that would be a different story. Again, this would cost some serious money. We could also legalize weed.... And then there's the firearm sales to Mexico's drug cartels. Yeah, its so bloody easy for drug trafficers to get firearms these days. Just get on a plane, head to a state with wimpy gun control laws, and secure yourself numerous firearms are cheap prices. Sure, some law enforcement will catch a group here and there. But ALOT of arms are flowing in to their hands. So, a state like Arizona, with lax gun control laws, is actually helping the drug cartel, PUSH people in to their state illegally. Some real 'smart' people in that state... Assuming we got some defenses up, what is to stop illegals from entering in other places? We going to extend that wall to the ENTIRE border of the USA? Finally, the immigration laws have to be reworked. The Kennedy-McCain bill was a good start. And THAT, is the real bargaining. If Republicans want to tighten border security, they will HAVE to come to the bargaining table as adults, and not children, when Democrats want to change immigration. A 'Give and Take' process, that will take some time to figure out. Unfortunately, we can all expect such 'wise' persons like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Sarah Palin, and many 'journalists' at Fox News, to turn this process in to a civil war. Democrats are willing to come to the table, but, unfortunately, Republicans want to just 'Take' and not 'Give' (see: Health Care Act).

Marini -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:08:09 PM)
dovie! I disagree with it taking 100 years to have a Hispanic President! I give it about 10 anos, at the latest Great post, I am going to work even harder to master Spanish! Muchas gracias Senorita! We are taking over White man! Give us back our land! Viva la liberte! <---is going to go along with the program! Senorita Marini

tazzygirl -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:10:04 PM)
i agree, joe. That bill would have been a starting point.. a great start. Sadly it never got voted on.

realwhiteknight -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:11:39 PM)
quote: It's quite the deep and twisted conundrum..We have all these "criminals" who were incarcerated for selling or possessing pot building a fence too keep out the very people that supplied them with the weed in the first place. We need to keep allowing these illegal immigrant pot growers into our country to insure a healthy and fresh group of future fence builders. There were 32,000 pot plants discovered in Wisconsin. Those illegals really get around. Maybe the problem is that Americans really dig their weed. I don't smoke weed but I could get ahold of some of that primo Wiscansinabis with one phone call. Thank God for the war on drugs. It is sooooo effective. Ahhh the Pot Paradox....I see. Kind of like the 'Grandfather Paradox: If you went back in time and stopped the pot growers from entering the country to begin with, would the fence builders still exist? Wiscansinabis..[:D]. Me too btw

cadenas -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:17:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML We really need immigrants for labor and entrepurnial ventures. Our population is aging and we are not replacing ourselves by birthrate. I heard yesterday the wait time for a Mexican to enter legally is about 135 years. Not sure how true that is. Actually, the vast majority cannot enter legally at all; I believe about 96% don't fit into any immigration category. For those 4% who qualify, the longest wait is in the Family 4th category. The actual wait for somebody applying today is not predictable, but may approach about 40 years. Depending on place of birth (not citizenship), those who apply today would have applied up to 22 years ago. For Mexicans, to quality today, they would have had to apply in 1992 (18 years ago) in most categories.

cadenas -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:23:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 What kind of perimeter control do they use at Area 51? I know they don't have guards every 500 or 1000 feet, yet they seem to know exactly when and where someone has crossed the line. Whatever they use, wouldn't the same thing be effective along the border? I really don't know, but it is just a thought. Securing a comparatively tiny military base that a few people may try to get into maybe once or twice a year is fundamentally different from securing a huge country with huge legal and illegal cross-border traffic (San Diego/Tijuana is the busiest land border crossing in the whole world). And remember - they didn't even manage to secure Alcatraz completely.

cadenas -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:26:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini I don't think it is fair when people from other countries must go through so much to become a U.S. citizen, to even get a U.S. passport, and be turned down or wait years and years, and others can stroll in here and become citizens on the spot. Either give everyone in South America a pass, do something real about it, or give the fuck up. Umm... You have to be a US citizen first before you can get a US passport! You are right, though - we need to make it dramatically easier to do things legally. Else nothing we try is ever going to work.

tazzygirl -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:32:29 PM)
What i find increasingly unfair is those who have waited for so many years, did all the legal paperwork, followed all the steps, and still have to wait while we discuss amnesty for those who didnt.

popeye1250 -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:38:52 PM)
Joether, this isn't a "Republican vs Democrat" or "Left vs Right" issue it's a national security and law enforcement issue. Dems and Repubs haven't done a very good job on securing that border for the last 30 years, have they? How are we supposed to enforce our immigration laws internally with only 4,400 ICE Officers for the entire country? If we had 50-60,000 we could make a huge dent in that 12-20 million figure . And "boots on the ground" 30,000 Troops on that Mexican border will bring any future illegals to a screeching halt. That won't "cost" us a dime as we're already paying those Troops. We need a new mindset in Washington. They need to come to the realisation that "Mexico" is not our friend and that it is decending into a total narco-state and anarchy. Washington hasn't listened to The People on this issue for 30 years and look how bad the situation has deteriorated. Well, I think this election comming up in November is going to be a big wake-up call for Washington to start doing the job we are paying them to do in this area. This is what happens when you don't enforce our laws. That is the problem. You don't make "new" laws because we didn't enforce the "old" laws! The "U.N." does that with "resolutions." As for "Kennedy/McCain" Kennedy's dead and McCain will no longer be a senator as of Jan 2011. It's never a good thing to reward people for breaking the law. It's funny, President Obama's "numbers" are plummetting. If he put 30,000 Troops on that border and addressed the country and said he's going to close that border, get us out of "NAFTA" and strictly enforce our immigration laws his "approval rate" would skyrocket up to 98% overnight and anyone who's even thinking of running against him in 2012 would drop out of the race! Who could beat him then?

Lucylastic -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:44:45 PM)
Shoot anyone who hires an illegal nuke the border, make the land uncrossable/unliveable for a hundred miles either side go back to slaveryusing prisoners and or undocumented illegals

E3 -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:47:23 PM)
My 2 cents as a canadian... Everyone has hit the nail on the head. The issue is drugs. Several central american countries have become controlled by the drug cartels and now its spread north to mexico. I mean these are gangs that put any American-based gang, mob, etc to shame not because of what they MIGHT do, but rather, becuase of simply how brazen they are. I've heard stories of central american cartels sending the decapitated head of a journalist to a TV station with a note NOT to air an investigation that journalist had been doing. Guess what.. it wasn't aired. So we know what the issue IS. But WHY is it an issue? Becuase in our society, we have decided that getting high is bad. Infact, its much like sex. The more temporarily GOOD something is, obviously, the more bad it is for us. (Texas has anti-sodomy laws, the only legal marriage is the Christian version of it and not OLDER forms of marriage that does allow multiple partners, etc) Thats the logic that built the USA, and for many years, the USA's laws DID shape the world at large. Drug laws included. Well much like alcohol was once viewed as bad. We had prohibition. Mobsters ran speak-easys and prohibition failed as everyone went WILD with the alchol. So they legalized it. Created legislation to control it. Taxed it. And sure, there are people who still misuse it, BUT now its easier to catch the misuse of it, its punishments are more severe, we have legal, recordable tax income from it, and all in all, people ARE behaving more wisely with alchol by and large. So we have the war on drugs. Its failing. WHY are we not following a step in history that was proven to work? Yes insanity is defined as repeating the same things over and over and expecting different results. BUT this time, we ARE doing things differnetly, yet expecting the same results. We need to do it the same way. As much as I hate the "non addictive" drugs like pot (even though I've known people SERIOUSLY mentally addicted to it, much like alchol), there are many drugs that are ideal for legalization. Legislation. Taxation. Many others could be used for doctor overseen therapies. I know many doctors consider ecstacy to be potentialy therapudic for brainchemical imbalance sufferers, but finding a safe, clean batch, is what prevents doctors from even "unofficialy" encouraging this. IF we legalize, legislate, and in this example, give control over it to medical corporations, we can benefit from it as a society. SO that would solve the drugs into the USA. Guns from the USA to Mexico? Well lets be honest. If you guys stop them from going south, then even MORE will come here to Canada. So please.. send them south. You already send enough here since its far harder to get a gun in Canada than it is in MOST states. The immigration issue. I honestly agree with other posters. Go the ancient roman route.. hire unemployed. Draft prisioners. Draft illegal immigrants with promise of citizenship apon completion of contract. Build the wall. Dont make it a full "NON SHALL PASS" wall. But rather a wall to force people to the crossings. If its built right, you wont need below ground sensors. Hell you can build a concret wall that goes down as far as it goes up. A few sensors IN the wall to detect breaches, and you would need is motion detection along hte top for people climbing. You WONT get major dig operations going under. Those take time. And occasional patrols, hell even once a day, would find dig operaitons of that size. A tower every 100 miles, except at crossings where you might have them every few miles just to help control traffic... you'd have maybe 25 to 50 towers the entire 200 miles. Depending on work rotation, 2000 people assigned to guard those towers each week (remember the hours your military personelle presently work! they dont get 8 hour days, 5 days on, 2 days off!) That construction wouldnt be too hard. Alot of digging, concrete pouring. Towers. Minimal sensors. And this is a good "first stage". If it doesnt work, it CAN be upgraded. BUT if the immigration laws are addressed WHILE this is going on, so the "herding" to crossing points is something the would be illegals dont fear, then yes, the wall should not need to be upgraded. Hell, its harder for Canadians to get into the USA than it is for Mexicans right now. They just walk in. I cant even cross the border to go shopping for an hour without a full passport. AND bear in mind.. this is conceptual/theory. I have NOT done the numbers, or know anything about that southern border. I'm too far north. Just thinking of that far south makes me sweat bullets. Something to remember though, those claiming "land of the free". Its an ideal. Its not a universal truth. Ideals can be proven lacking. How can you claim land of the free when the government can tap your phone at any time without requiring a court order? (patriot act anyone?) We are entering a new world. One that mirrors an older world. Where nations isolated from each other. The economic failure of one, did NOT mean the economic failure of all. The political failure of one, was replaced by a new one in its place. Neither did they prosper together either. Walls along borders, armed guards... these are going to be growing trends. Our populations have gotten out of control. I dont mean size alone. I mean WHAT we do. Our governments will take steps to track us. The american one already tracks you. You folks have less freedom than I do here in Canada. A wall is doable. And in all truth, its likely to happen. The Berlin wall wasnt the last sign of a cold, dark world. It was just hte last harsh reality before we entered the dream of unrealistic freedom. I shouldn't write at 3am my time. I ramble. Hate mail can be directed to my profile, cause I'm NEVER gonna find this topic again I am sure.

cadenas -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:50:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini The prisoners, contractors and those over-seeing the building of the iron fence, or whatever structure is used will have specialists working wtih them and every 100 miles or so, you build guard towers, and you have electronic monitors that go off when someone is about 50 feet away from the wall, that would alert the sensors to go off, and alert those in the guard towers. You know, sensors don't really do all that much good when it takes four hours to drive there when they go off. You would have to space them the same distance as East Germany, about every mile. That's 2000 towers. Each tower will need approximately three to five people. That's 10,000 guards. Each one will only work 40 hours and has vacations and sick days, so that's more than 50,000 guards just to man the towers around the clock. You'll probably need about the same number of people for maintenance. That's 100,000 people. You need approximately one manager for every seven people. I'll be generous - make it ten. That's 10,000 first-level managers. 1000 second-level managers. and so on. Don't forget about the support personnel for such a large organization - anything from payroll to purchasing to internal investigations (to catch the inevitable bad apple) to logistics to construction crews (for when the local maintenance people can't fix something). In the end, we are talking about at least 200,000 people - the size of the Marine Corps. Just to somewhat secure the ~2000 mile land border. We haven't even talked about air space. Tunnels. The ~20,000 mile coastline. The ~6000 miles with Canada. And let's not forget the Ray Hunt problem. Some lands along the border are owned by influential campaign donors and not available to be fenced off.

Marini -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:57:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: E3 My 2 cents as a canadian... Everyone has hit the nail on the head. The issue is drugs. Several central american countries have become controlled by the drug cartels and now its spread north to mexico. I mean these are gangs that put any American-based gang, mob, etc to shame not because of what they MIGHT do, but rather, becuase of simply how brazen they are. I've heard stories of central american cartels sending the decapitated head of a journalist to a TV station with a note NOT to air an investigation that journalist had been doing. Guess what.. it wasn't aired. So we know what the issue IS. But WHY is it an issue? Becuase in our society, we have decided that getting high is bad. Infact, its much like sex. The more temporarily GOOD something is, obviously, the more bad it is for us. (Texas has anti-sodomy laws, the only legal marriage is the Christian version of it and not OLDER forms of marriage that does allow multiple partners, etc) Thats the logic that built the USA, and for many years, the USA's laws DID shape the world at large. Drug laws included. Well much like alcohol was once viewed as bad. We had prohibition. Mobsters ran speak-easys and prohibition failed as everyone went WILD with the alchol. So they legalized it. Created legislation to control it. Taxed it. And sure, there are people who still misuse it, BUT now its easier to catch the misuse of it, its punishments are more severe, we have legal, recordable tax income from it, and all in all, people ARE behaving more wisely with alchol by and large. So we have the war on drugs. Its failing. WHY are we not following a step in history that was proven to work? Yes insanity is defined as repeating the same things over and over and expecting different results. BUT this time, we ARE doing things differnetly, yet expecting the same results. We need to do it the same way. As much as I hate the "non addictive" drugs like pot (even though I've known people SERIOUSLY mentally addicted to it, much like alchol), there are many drugs that are ideal for legalization. Legislation. Taxation. Many others could be used for doctor overseen therapies. I know many doctors consider ecstacy to be potentialy therapudic for brainchemical imbalance sufferers, but finding a safe, clean batch, is what prevents doctors from even "unofficialy" encouraging this. IF we legalize, legislate, and in this example, give control over it to medical corporations, we can benefit from it as a society. SO that would solve the drugs into the USA. Guns from the USA to Mexico? Well lets be honest. If you guys stop them from going south, then even MORE will come here to Canada. So please.. send them south. You already send enough here since its far harder to get a gun in Canada than it is in MOST states. The immigration issue. I honestly agree with other posters. Go the ancient roman route.. hire unemployed. Draft prisioners. Draft illegal immigrants with promise of citizenship apon completion of contract. Build the wall. Dont make it a full "NON SHALL PASS" wall. But rather a wall to force people to the crossings. If its built right, you wont need below ground sensors. Hell you can build a concret wall that goes down as far as it goes up. A few sensors IN the wall to detect breaches, and you would need is motion detection along hte top for people climbing. You WONT get major dig operations going under. Those take time. And occasional patrols, hell even once a day, would find dig operaitons of that size. A tower every 100 miles, except at crossings where you might have them every few miles just to help control traffic... you'd have maybe 25 to 50 towers the entire 200 miles. Depending on work rotation, 2000 people assigned to guard those towers each week (remember the hours your military personelle presently work! they dont get 8 hour days, 5 days on, 2 days off!) That construction wouldnt be too hard. Alot of digging, concrete pouring. Towers. Minimal sensors. And this is a good "first stage". If it doesnt work, it CAN be upgraded. BUT if the immigration laws are addressed WHILE this is going on, so the "herding" to crossing points is something the would be illegals dont fear, then yes, the wall should not need to be upgraded. Hell, its harder for Canadians to get into the USA than it is for Mexicans right now. They just walk in. I cant even cross the border to go shopping for an hour without a full passport. AND bear in mind.. this is conceptual/theory. I have NOT done the numbers, or know anything about that southern border. I'm too far north. Just thinking of that far south makes me sweat bullets. Something to remember though, those claiming "land of the free". Its an ideal. Its not a universal truth. Ideals can be proven lacking. How can you claim land of the free when the government can tap your phone at any time without requiring a court order? (patriot act anyone?) We are entering a new world. One that mirrors an older world. Where nations isolated from each other. The economic failure of one, did NOT mean the economic failure of all. The political failure of one, was replaced by a new one in its place. Neither did they prosper together either. Walls along borders, armed guards... these are going to be growing trends. Our populations have gotten out of control. I dont mean size alone. I mean WHAT we do. Our governments will take steps to track us. The american one already tracks you. You folks have less freedom than I do here in Canada. A wall is doable. And in all truth, its likely to happen. The Berlin wall wasnt the last sign of a cold, dark world. It was just hte last harsh reality before we entered the dream of unrealistic freedom. I shouldn't write at 3am my time. I ramble. Hate mail can be directed to my profile, cause I'm NEVER gonna find this topic again I am sure. [sm=applause.gif] What an outstanding first post! Decapitation of 1 man? Please.... You forgot to add, that many of those cartels will wipe out an entire family in a NY minute if you fuck with them. Did you hear about the well in the abandonded building where they "found" all those people murdered by members of drug cartels. Fascinating story, many were thrown down the well alive, well I digress. I want to give you a standing ovation, and I will "let" you go to bed, if you PROMISE to start posting down here more often. We will need advice from Canadians and people all over the world, Americans are so dense these days many can't see or find their ass from a hole in the wall. Bravo!

popeye1250 -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/26/2010 11:59:41 PM)
Cadenas, S. Korea doesn't have all those problems , they have minefields. Those are Totally effective.

tazzygirl -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 12:02:52 AM)
quote: We will need advice from Canadians and people all over the world, Americans are so dense these days many can't see or find their ass from a hole in the wall. What a lovely way to generalize there, Marini,

domiguy -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 12:18:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cadenas quote: ORIGINAL: Marini The prisoners, contractors and those over-seeing the building of the iron fence, or whatever structure is used will have specialists working wtih them and every 100 miles or so, you build guard towers, and you have electronic monitors that go off when someone is about 50 feet away from the wall, that would alert the sensors to go off, and alert those in the guard towers. You know, sensors don't really do all that much good when it takes four hours to drive there when they go off. You would have to space them the same distance as East Germany, about every mile. That's 2000 towers. Each tower will need approximately three to five people. That's 10,000 guards. Each one will only work 40 hours and has vacations and sick days, so that's more than 50,000 guards just to man the towers around the clock. You'll probably need about the same number of people for maintenance. That's 100,000 people. You need approximately one manager for every seven people. I'll be generous - make it ten. That's 10,000 first-level managers. 1000 second-level managers. and so on. Don't forget about the support personnel for such a large organization - anything from payroll to purchasing to internal investigations (to catch the inevitable bad apple) to logistics to construction crews (for when the local maintenance people can't fix something). In the end, we are talking about at least 200,000 people - the size of the Marine Corps. Just to somewhat secure the ~2000 mile land border. We haven't even talked about air space. Tunnels. The ~20,000 mile coastline. The ~6000 miles with Canada. And let's not forget the Ray Hunt problem. Some lands along the border are owned by influential campaign donors and not available to be fenced off. Great 476th post.....Unfortunately people on CM don't like to be confronted with what the actual costs might be. Years from now when people refer to the "fall" of The United States they will discuss the pivotal point as being when the United States adopted the Marini/Pops Isolationist Protection Program.

Marini -> RE: What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico? (7/27/2010 12:20:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: We will need advice from Canadians and people all over the world, Americans are so dense these days many can't see or find their ass from a hole in the wall. What a lovely way to generalize there, Marini, I did that for the wonderful Jeff, that started this thread, and said at least 3 times, that NO-ONE had any idea how to "actually secure the borders". Read the OP, tazzy. People have all kinds of idea's, and guess what? We are not high powered government officials, high ranking political people or military leaders. If we can come up with this much, if they can't do something, than we are worse off than I ever imagined. The only thing worse than our present situation, would be being too stupid to figure out how to solve it. I am not even going to talk about the situation in Afghanistan, but for the love of GOD, secure our borders. At least make an attempt at securing them, before it is too late. There are people that have good idea's! Let's get fucking busy, the clock is ticking.

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