RE: When being smart can be a curse.

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NuevaVida -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 10:39:00 AM)
I only see intelligence as a curse if someone lacks the wisdom as to what to do with it. In the world of M/s and D/s, I have talked to many a dominant male who said they wanted intelligence, but who knee-jerked defensively when disagreed with or even politely challenged. I took it as "I want intelligence, so long as it does not surpass my own." I am not interested in someone competing for intelligence, or threatened by someone else's intelligence, or merely uninterested in his slave's intelligence. It's just not my thing. I consider myself to be intelligent and wise. Sure, I have my "airhead" moments, but don't we all. Mr. Man and I blend together. He might state an opinion or what/how he wants done, and I am always free to state a contradicting opinion. In the end, his word is the rule and we go forth. Sometimes he incorporates my point of view and sometimes he does not. As Bita said, we go through it together - be it a mistake or success. If it's a mistake, we learn, we get over it, we move on. He will readily admit when he's made a mistake and I keep on loving him and we let it go. I do not equate intelligence with over-thinking. In fact, to me, intelligence, combined with wisdom (the best combo, I think) means knowing when to let it go and stop over-analyzing something to death. It means to prioritize and to know what deserves my energy and what does not. When to speak up and when to drop it. Etc. And if one has these abilities, I don't see the curse part at all.

Icarys -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 10:58:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida I only see intelligence as a curse if someone lacks the wisdom as to what to do with it. In the world of M/s and D/s, I have talked to many a dominant male who said they wanted intelligence, but who knee-jerked defensively when disagreed with or even politely challenged. I took it as "I want intelligence, so long as it does not surpass my own." I am not interested in someone competing for intelligence, or threatened by someone else's intelligence, or merely uninterested in his slave's intelligence. It's just not my thing. I consider myself to be intelligent and wise. Sure, I have my "airhead" moments, but don't we all. Mr. Man and I blend together. He might state an opinion or what/how he wants done, and I am always free to state a contradicting opinion. In the end, his word is the rule and we go forth. Sometimes he incorporates my point of view and sometimes he does not. As Bita said, we go through it together - be it a mistake or success. If it's a mistake, we learn, we get over it, we move on. He will readily admit when he's made a mistake and I keep on loving him and we let it go. I do not equate intelligence with over-thinking. In fact, to me, intelligence, combined with wisdom (the best combo, I think) means knowing when to let it go and stop over-analyzing something to death. It means to prioritize and to know what deserves my energy and what does not. When to speak up and when to drop it. Etc. And if one has these abilities, I don't see the curse part at all. Here's the thing though..None of us are wise or spot on intelligent or anything for that matter every second of the day..Anyone who believes this bit of wisdom to be different to me is posturing or misguided or lacking the wisdom they profess to have. Simply put, you've more or less called every person that has had an issue with this at one time or another in their life unwise in some way(one moment of deliberate thinking for me anyway doesn't make a person less of anything)..My over analyzing comes from the desire to make sure I'm making the "right" decision for all parties involved..Yet sometimes I have thought too long on something and an opportunity has passed me by..This doesn't just relate to BDSM or relationship dynamics..but to life in genral.

NuevaVida -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 11:19:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys Here's the thing though..None of us are wise or spot on intelligent or anything for that matter every second of the day.. Exactly. Which is why I made it very clear in my post that I have my "airhead" moments. If that wasn't clear, "airhead moments" means moments when I absolutely lack intelligence, wisdom, common sense, or anything of the sort. quote: Anyone who believes this bit of wisdom to be different to me is posturing or misguided or lacking the wisdom they profess to have. This didn't make sense here. Anyone who believes what bit of wisdom? quote: Simply put, you've more or less called every person that has had an issue with this at one time or another in their life unwise in some way Well yes. Including myself. In fact you pretty much agreed, when you said "None of us are wise or spot on intelligent or anything for that matter every second of the day." There is no such thing as perfect wisdom, unless one believes in and applies it to a higher deity. As for myself, absolutely for a long time in my life I lacked intelligence and wisdom. Who here could say they never lacked the two? quote: My over analyzing comes from the desire to make sure I'm making the "right" decision for all parties involved..Yet sometimes I have thought too long on something and an opportunity has passed me by..This doesn't just relate to BDSM or relationship dynamics..but to life in genral. OK. I've had the same issue and still do, sometimes. I used to think so much on something I failed to ever execute. This is why I now believe there's a time to keep thinking and a time to let go, and a mix of intellect and wisdom will help us know which is which. I didn't always have that wisdom. I still don't. But I have a hell of a lot more than I used to. We are all unwise in some way. What is the issue with that?

LaTigresse -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 11:28:28 AM)
I enjoy being around 'smart' people. Well educated does not always equal smart, nor does smart always equal well educated. I do love being around people that like to think outside the box, challenge the status quo, question things. Not just to be 'that person', but out of a sincere desire to learn and understand. If I only hung out with people that know all the same shit I know, how boring that would be. I prefer smart people that have heaps of knowledge about things I know very little about. I love to learn. I love to ask questions. Both women that have been in my life had more education than I, and were very bright. One was probably genius level smart. The woman was fluent in SEVEN languages. I felt like knowing her, was like having access to a vast wonderful library. She had traveled places I had only dreamt of. Met people I had only ever read about. There were no boring conversations. It was a delight to have had her in my life. Crazy drama and all.

Icarys -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 11:33:06 AM)
You miss the nuances in the terms I'm using. Unwise moments do not equal unwise people.

Icarys -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 11:35:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I enjoy being around 'smart' people. Well educated does not always equal smart, nor does smart always equal well educated. I do love being around people that like to think outside the box, challenge the status quo, question things. Not just to be 'that person', but out of a sincere desire to learn and understand. If I only hung out with people that know all the same shit I know, how boring that would be. I prefer smart people that have heaps of knowledge about things I know very little about. I love to learn. I love to ask questions. Both women that have been in my life had more education than I, and were very bright. One was probably genius level smart. The woman was fluent in SEVEN languages. I felt like knowing her, was like having access to a vast wonderful library. She had traveled places I had only dreamt of. Met people I had only ever read about. There were no boring conversations. It was a delight to have had her in my life. Crazy drama and all. I'm with you on that..I'm happy to call some of them friends as well. I know they don't think like me but they get me and respect my views and way of life like I do theirs...Regardless of the differences and no matter how they see them. I'm lucky to have them in my life.

laurell3 -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 12:08:19 PM)
It took me awhile in my adult life to learn that intellect and emotion are two different animals. A wise man taught me that one cannot rationalize emotions and must feel them. Believe it or not, it was a lesson I needed to learn. People often equate intelligence with other characteristics that aren't necessarily related. Being intelligent doesn't effect my ability to submit, trust and security do. Over-thinking a partner's actions is not something I would see as an issue of intelligence, but an issue of not being emotionally able to trust and feel secure, which are emotional concepts, not intellectual ones.

Icarys -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 12:13:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 It took me awhile in my adult life to learn that intellect and emotion are two different animals. A wise man taught me that one cannot rationalize emotions and must feel them. Believe it or not, it was a lesson I needed to learn. People often equate intelligence with other characteristics that aren't necessarily related. Being intelligent doesn't effect my ability to submit, trust and security do. Over-thinking a partner's actions is not something I would see as an issue of intelligence, but an issue of not being emotionally able to trust and feel secure, which are emotional concepts, not intellectual ones. I appreciate your input, Laurell. I have slightly different takes on it but what you say makes sense to me. I do agree that they aren't "necessarily" related but I still stand by the idea that they may have ties in some cases.

NuevaVida -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 1:27:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys You miss the nuances in the terms I'm using. Unwise moments do not equal unwise people. I don't disagree with that. I am saying people can be unwise and later gain wisdom. People can be wise about some things and not so much about others. People can be wise with moments that lack wisdom. I don't know what you are disagreeing with, or taking issue with. I know I personally have fallen into all of the categories above. I would assume most all of us have.

Icarys -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 2:03:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys You miss the nuances in the terms I'm using. Unwise moments do not equal unwise people. I don't disagree with that. I am saying people can be unwise and later gain wisdom. People can be wise about some things and not so much about others. People can be wise with moments that lack wisdom. I don't know what you are disagreeing with, or taking issue with. I know I personally have fallen into all of the categories above. I would assume most all of us have. Based on this last post. I'm not disagreeing with anything. No one way works all the time and honestly..Even though I forget at times, I know this..It's just not that easy, blanketing a situation with one potential outcome. I think you've hit this pretty close to home. Thank you.

jujubeeMB -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 2:14:47 PM)
This is going to come across as a major boast, but it's kind of necessary to make my point. I'm really, really intelligent. It's not that I'm booksmart (though I read like a mo-fo), it's more that I'm deeply inter- and intra-personally intelligent, and I'm overly analytical in every which way. I cannot shut my brain off, except when someone turns it off for me, in certain delicious, dark moments. Enter the intelligent Dom. He has to be smarter than me, or at least meaner with what he's got. [:)] I could never submit to someone who wasn't as smart as me, for the very reasons stated in the OP: if I can out think him, I will. However, I don't think of it in the same negative light as the OP, and I don't think I'm alone in that. I love challenging my Dom, and giving him the incredible pleasure that comes - I've been told - with watching a really intelligent, capable person drop to their knees for you. It's not a negative - it's another way of enjoying the power you have over someone. And yes, of course it can be difficult sometimes (for both parties) but that's what ball gags are for [:D] As for over-thinking and a brain that won't shut off. I've found that it takes next to nothing for a smart Dom to turn the dial down on my brain - seriously, I can be turned off like a tv set. However, it does take a lot of initial groundwork, and patience and artistry and time. The benefit of having an intelligent sub for this groundwork-laying, of course, is that she can help you with it, because she knows exactly what you're doing the whole time [;)]

Icarys -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 2:51:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys You have flaws? Get out! Would you mind telling us what that one flaw is?[;)] If I tell you it will spoil the mystery of the discovery! I'm sure that Himself could list plenty of my flaws but no doubt it would take him far into next month to do so and we're leaving for the States on Saturday. [:D] I'm sure it's not as many as that but I got ya. Safe trip BTW [:D]

mstrjx -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 2:51:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB Enter the intelligent Dom. He has to be smarter than me, or at least meaner with what he's got. [:)] I could never submit to someone who wasn't as smart as me, for the very reasons stated in the OP: if I can out think him, I will. This goes back, in a roundabout way, to the 'test' thread from a few weeks back. It was agreed that tests are bad, but really this (or your intelligence) IS the test. Suppose the Dom/Master/Overlord passes the test, or proves to be sufficiently intelligent, or outthinks your outthinking at most or every turn, is it in your power to turn off the test. 'You're right, you're smart enough for me, now I can just go about the business of submitting and stop making you try so hard.' Jeff

Icarys -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 2:52:51 PM)
quote: And yes, of course it can be difficult sometimes (for both parties) but that's what ball gags are for True as rain...A good pop does that as well...or a loving "Shut it!" works too.

sexyred1 -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 2:58:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB This is going to come across as a major boast, but it's kind of necessary to make my point. I'm really, really intelligent. It's not that I'm booksmart (though I read like a mo-fo), it's more that I'm deeply inter- and intra-personally intelligent, and I'm overly analytical in every which way. I cannot shut my brain off, except when someone turns it off for me, in certain delicious, dark moments. Enter the intelligent Dom. He has to be smarter than me, or at least meaner with what he's got. [:)] I could never submit to someone who wasn't as smart as me, for the very reasons stated in the OP: if I can out think him, I will. However, I don't think of it in the same negative light as the OP, and I don't think I'm alone in that. I love challenging my Dom, and giving him the incredible pleasure that comes - I've been told - with watching a really intelligent, capable person drop to their knees for you. It's not a negative - it's another way of enjoying the power you have over someone. And yes, of course it can be difficult sometimes (for both parties) but that's what ball gags are for [:D] As for over-thinking and a brain that won't shut off. I've found that it takes next to nothing for a smart Dom to turn the dial down on my brain - seriously, I can be turned off like a tv set. However, it does take a lot of initial groundwork, and patience and artistry and time. The benefit of having an intelligent sub for this groundwork-laying, of course, is that she can help you with it, because she knows exactly what you're doing the whole time [;)] I used to think the same as you...until I met someone who was able to bring me to that place better than anyone else ever did. And he is not as smart as me. But that is part of the point. Someone can get into your submissive head without having the brilliance you think you need for the rest of the relationship. At least that is what surprisingly happened with me. Sometimes someone is able to listen enough to understand what buttons to push...even though they might not be as quick thinking as you or be able to discuss literature. So, I am more concerned these days with EMOTIONAL intelligence....for me that is much more important than a degree or education.

Icarys -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 3:12:40 PM)
quote: Suppose the Dom/Master/Overlord passes the test, or proves to be sufficiently intelligent, or outthinks your outthinking at most or every turn, is it in your power to turn off the test. 'You're right, you're smart enough for me, now I can just go about the business of submitting and stop making you try so hard.' Jeff I think pam and a few others hit on this as a possibility.. It isn't that easy to turn it off and I don't find it to be my sole responsibility to make that happen either. I think once you get into a routine of "questioning" things it can be really hard to turn it off for the person...It can also be hard for the person trying to get it to turn off. Again..Not the end of the world but a possible stumbling block that has to be worked through but it's something that both people have to do.

RedStapler -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 3:13:49 PM)
This question reminds me, of course, of the Simpsons. http://flowingdata.com/2008/06/20/lisa-simpson-on-happiness-vs-intelligence/ ** Begin Spoiler Alert By the end of the episode, Homer decides that intelligence really is a curse and decides that he wants to go back to being stupid. End Spoiler Alert **

Icarys -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 3:18:41 PM)
quote: I used to think the same as you...until I met someone who was able to bring me to that place better than anyone else ever did. And he is not as smart as me. But that is part of the point. Someone can get into your submissive head without having the brilliance you think you need for the rest of the relationship. At least that is what surprisingly happened with me. Sometimes someone is able to listen enough to understand what buttons to push...even though they might not be as quick thinking as you or be able to discuss literature. So, I am more concerned these days with EMOTIONAL intelligence....for me that is much more important than a degree or education. I'll agree here as well..Although I am impressed with someone who knows a few different languages...There are many different types of intelligences that are appealing to me.. With the two females that were brilliantly book smart that i referred to earlier..They never seemed to have a problem with me not going to college..Which worked for us all.

Icarys -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 3:19:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedStapler This question reminds me, of course, of the Simpsons. http://flowingdata.com/2008/06/20/lisa-simpson-on-happiness-vs-intelligence/ ** Begin Spoiler Alert By the end of the episode, Homer decides that intelligence really is a curse and decides that he wants to go back to being stupid. End Spoiler Alert ** [:D]

domiguy -> RE: When being smart can be a curse. (8/9/2010 3:42:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Grin - I'm sure I didn't hear any screaming over the net - but I was going to make a very similar point to Lockit (not that Lockit needs any help in defending herself) I don't think "over analysis" is a function of intelligence necessarily - I think that less smart people are just as likely to over think things as smart ones. I don't believe that to be true..I think anyone can over think but to what degree and frequency may tend to happen with" more intelligent" people. I think intelligent people will tend to look at most every angle. It's odd the difference between men and women. Intelligent women will actually read up on bdsm many times before pursuing it. Men just kind of "do it." We figure in time we will simply reach our goal. I love intelligent women. I love a woman that has a mind, can formulate an opinion even if it is in direct opposition to my own personal beliefs. It seems lots of guys are frightened by that. But at the end of the day, on the shit that really matters, it is my way. Unless I get confused on what exactly was "my way" when my cock is shoved to the hilt down her throat. Intelligent women are sneaky like that.

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