RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/14/2010 10:48:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Islam means submission


to God.

A few Christians might want to try it, instead of trying to be God.




Peace and blessings be upon him[:D]



AnimusRex -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/14/2010 11:34:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
The sky really is falling, the wolves really are inside the fences.


Don't conservatives ever get tired of pissing their pants in fear?

Commies, Moozlims, Mexicans, Homos...is there anything that doesn't terrify them?



joether -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/14/2010 11:36:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls
Actually it proves he has no common sense and that he is a muslim himself.


Hate much? He has more common sense then the majority of conservatives it seems. And, NO, Mr. Obama isn't a muslim. YES, he was born in Hawaii, AFTER, the location become a state of the Union. YES, he was elected correctly. YES, he has a birth certificate and its been verified....twice. Are you done with the petty, and insulting comments, cuckoldmepls?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls
No true Christian would approve of this.


A true Christian, would resist the temptation to be selfish, hateful, angry, destructive, and uncaring. Not to mention greedy, dishonest, vengful, petty, or selfish. That right there, eliminates most conservatives. Those people, are called 'true' Christians, in that they use the Holy Bible to justify being evil towards others. An example, would be a 'true' Christian, who bombs an abortion climic, under the ideal: The ends justify the means.

A true Christian, in the same example, would sit down with the soon-to-be mother, and talk to them, as an adult. Being patient, honest, and compassionate, to find out what the real problem is. A fear? Money? Disease? Something else? And if possible, try to find a positive manner to resolve the issue. Using laws, is the petty way out of the issue. In the end, its the woman's choice to decide on a path. But if the Christian did their utmost, and having child would not kill either or both child and mother.....and they (the mother to be) wishs to have an abortion. Then Christian has to step back, as its now in God's hands. That too, takes CONSIDERABLE, wisdom and restraint. Many fail at that point, feeling they have invested so much of their time and energy. They fail, because they just became selfish, and forgot the issue.

The above two paragraphs are my belief on the subject. If you have a problem with it, to bad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls
Plus, City councils and mayors all the time decide what type of business or entity can be located in which area of town.


Yes, fortunately, no one can create a law that trumps the US Constitution. Maybe you should reread the The US Constitution. The actual reason why the local guys couldn't block a religious place of worship, is found Article 6, 2nd Paragraph., (The Supremacy Clause). I am pretty sure this is the correct understanding to the question "Can a state/federal law, trump the US Consititution?" But This site, may help as well. Although, I could be wrong; I am pretty sure this is the correct way to answer the question. (if anyone can verify the actual info?).

But yes, even if the local planning board and/or mayor, wanted to stop this issue, they cant: Violates the 1st Amendment. And yes, not even the President of the United States, could stop it. Not even if he was a Republican!



Brain -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 12:30:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Actually it proves he has no common sense and that he is a muslim himself. No true Christian would approve of this. Plus, City councils and mayors all the time decide what type of business or entity can be located in which area of town. One example is by limiting where porn shops and night clubs can be located. So it is constitutional to selectively decide where something can be located.





Obama clarifies NY mosque support - Israel News, Ynetnews


Obama said that "my intention was simply to let people know what I thought. Which was that in this country we treat everybody equally and in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion."

On Friday, Obama said he believed Muslims had the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in the country.

"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3936530,00.html




Obama, clarifies position Photo: AFP



Brain -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 12:33:13 AM)










Obama, clarifies position Photo: AFP

[image]local://upfiles/392475/87D39778CC9F437F996ECDD18DF509C0.jpg[/image]



juliaoceania -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 12:37:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
The sky really is falling, the wolves really are inside the fences.


Don't conservatives ever get tired of pissing their pants in fear?

Commies, Moozlims, Mexicans, Homos...is there anything that doesn't terrify them?


Yeah, they do not fear Dick Cheney, and that man doesn't even have a pulse... I have to give credit where credit is due, it takes either courage or stupidity not to fear him



Lordandmaster -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 2:04:14 AM)

Well...

I was gonna do a LRODANDMASTER post on this one...

but you guys have kinda already done it for me.

Heaven help us.



Vendaval -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 2:12:21 AM)

So this is your only source? One with a preset pro-religious idealology? That explains a lot...

"Reviews
From Library Journal
That there is conflict over the accepted place of religion in our public life and institutions goes without saying. Journalist Evans argues that we have erroneous notions about the origins of our country, institutions, and freedoms. He finds many of these mistakes to be the product of an accepted "liberal history lesson." For example, Evans opposes the common belief that there must be a "wall of separation" between church and state. Like Stephen Carter in The Culture of Disbelief (LJ 9/1/93), Evans believes that religion is wrongly subordinated to other elements of modern American culture and that religion and religious faith should be significant parts of our public life. Carter's book is the more scholarly and principled, Evans's the more polemical. Recommended for public libraries.
Jerry Stephens, U.S. Court of Appeals Lib., Oklahoma City
Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.


http://www.amazon.com/Theme-Freedom-Religion-Politics-Tradition/dp/0895267187




quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Here val... not that you will read it:

The Theme is Freedom: Religion, Poliyics and the American Tradition, by M. Stanton Evans




Vendaval -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 2:25:45 AM)

All 3 Abrahamic religions have a male authority figure to whom believers submit their will.

"God willing", "the will of God", "the will of Allah" etc.

quote:






ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Islam means submission


to God.

A few Christians might want to try it, instead of trying to be God.






Politesub53 -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 3:16:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

That isn't even remotely true, approval ratings were and are a mere asterisk.


Here's your asterisk, from Londonistan: pretty pictures.

I disremembered.

27% said they would not automatically warn authorities of another, impending attack.
6% (100,000 British Muslims) said the attacks were fully justified.


Your sourse seems somewhat hostile towards Muslims, which takes away any credibility. I suspect you have never ever sat down and had a chat with ordinary Muslims on the subject. Many of them have some sympathies with the reasons for the bombings, very very few agree with the violence.

Even your own source only claims 6% support violence, so lets help you do some simple maths. That means 94% of Muslims are against the violence. As I recall you said that was "horse poop".



truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 4:41:29 AM)

quote:

Dude, that happened almost 10 years ago, can you really blame our economic collapse on this


No, of course not.
The current mortgage/banking crisis has its roots in the Community Reinvestment Act and excesses at Freddie and Fannie- in other words, it was caused by government meddling in banking (to be fair, that and the repeal of the act that kept Wall Street from speculating in mortgages).

The coming economic collapse will be the fault of unsustainable government spending, and evcessive government regulation driving businesses overseas, where they can do the only thing they exist to do- make (more) money.

The religious war Islam clearly wants, is starting, and will insist on, and soon, will happen independently of actions by any government and any economic conditions.

I find it very amusing that Americans have been so thoroughly brainwashed to think that any preference for anything, to refuse to believe that any one system (of religion, of government, hell, of gardening or car-washing) is just simply superior- because to do so, even mentally, would constitute a breach of the Commandment against intolerance- that they/you cannot conceive:

A. That members of a religion would prefer the rules and laws of that religion to American ideals of freedom (this is the inability to understand the enemy that resulted in Bush and the rest of you just unable to grasp the concept that democracy and Islam are ultimately incompatible)
B. That religious war is even a viable concept. Our notions of religion are so amorphous and tolerant that we just cannot imagine that, for example, observant Muslims really do just plain hate Jews and would happily annihilate them just for their Jewishness.

An understanding of the indoctrination from birth onwards of Muslims in the concepts of taqiyya and kitman are helpful.

We so woefully misunderstand Islam that, for just one example, the much-maligned Sean Hannity, wringing his hands over the Cordoba House, never fails to describe the Imam involved as "wanting the US to be more sharia-compliant". He cannot grasp the concept that an embasure of the imposition of sharia, upon everyone, is an ironclad requirement of Islam upon all adherents, much less upon an imam, that said imposition is as much a part of that faith as adherence to marriage vows is central to the Catholicism he himself embraces, and maybe more so.

Just in case I so thoroughly lost control of the above sentence as to render my thoughts incomprehensible:
He thinks it is unusual that an Imam would promote sharia when such promotion is required.
They want their worldwide Caliphate, and work for it every day, just like anti-smokers worked tirelessly to demonize and eliminate smoking for the last couple decades. Incrementalism works. The frog in the pot rarely notices the water warming up until it is too late.
The issue du jour is the Cordoba House, by itself a small thing. The bigger picture cannot be seen by most Americans.
Yet.



truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 4:44:04 AM)

quote:

Frank Zappa used to rail about this he was always bitching about the education system and the text books and said "some one is paying for this shit, follow the money


We all see the world through the prism created by those things we value. Some think our problems all have their roots in money.



truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 4:46:49 AM)

quote:

According to the founding fathers, America should be a country where peoples of all faiths, including those who profess no religious belief, could live in peace and mutual benefit


One wonders whether the debates might have included a few words about the threat posed by worldwide terrorism had it then existed.



truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 4:50:29 AM)

quote:

to God.


It means submission on many levels. Mohammed to Allah. Muslims to Mohammed (esp during his lifetime), and to Allah.
Women to men.

Infidels to Muslims, at least insofar as the dhimmi.



truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 4:54:41 AM)

quote:

Your sourse seems somewhat hostile towards Muslims, which takes away any credibility.


Yup. If you don't have your head in the sand you're simply not credible. Anything that leads to a criticism of Islam is simply not credible. That passes as excellent critical thinking skills today.

The poll results show that 6% admit supporting the violence. Polls asking if you ever stole money from your Grandmother or fucked your sister might show numbers lower than the objective truth, too, n'est ce pas?



Aneirin -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 5:31:06 AM)

Polls are a red herring, they do not represent everyone, as the results of polls is only dependant on who and how many took the poll, which could be anything from one person through to millions of people, the use of percentages is therefore misleading and should not be taken with any substance of credibility.

Then of polls, what kind of people take them, sure there will be those keen to say their piece, perhaps a case of  a pollster is giving a person the importance of them actually listening to their views, where normally the vast majority of people are unheard and they know it.

So it could be a poll response based upon the misguided thought that what they say has credibility to others, or they have some feelings to vent in a meaningful way. It could also be pollster are being flippant, or malicious or joking or whatever, as with polls, they tend to be anonymous i.e. if a person cannot be recognised for what they say they feel more comfortable saying what they say.

Polls mean shit simple as that and are not a true representation of thought or feeling.

But



areallivehuman -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 6:30:00 AM)

If you view building a mosque as a touchdown victory dance, or a slap in the face, or flipping America the bird, that says something about YOU. A "twue" Christian would not be troubled by this.



tazzygirl -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 6:35:07 AM)

~FR

Has anyone asked the victims families how they feel? No one else, in my opinion, has much of a say on this matter. And with that list julia provided, im not too sure the families would all be against the building.



AlwaysLisa -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 6:45:32 AM)

My apologies if this has been stated, I couldn't make it through the entire thread.

Obama clarified his original statement, by saying he does NOT support the Mosque, but the right to build one.  Ok, I understand that, this is the United States and we have rights.  

I also listened to a father whose son is still buried beneath the rubble along with countless others.   He wanted to know about his rights, as a parent, to not have his son's death used as a political stepping stone.   In this mans words, " this isn't about choice of religion, it's about what is appropriate and common decency for grieving families".  

Why can't they build the Mosque, without the hype and connection to 9/11??  If it's all about religious freedom, truly, this would make sense.  No one is saying they "can't" build a Mosque or worship, it's the affiliation with the nations first attack on native soil and the incredible loss of life that has many protesting. 

Lisa



tazzygirl -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/15/2010 6:48:55 AM)

First attack? Wasnt Pearl Harbor long before this?



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