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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/6/2010 2:32:21 PM

hertz

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quote:

you launched a personal attack which you then rescinded after he posted. It would seem your posting is lacking in integrity on many levels hertz

Really? Please explain, laurell3. Who did I attack? And what did I say?

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/6/2010 3:06:02 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

For LadyPact and Twoshoes I can confirm that the last two women I have slept with have not been my partner (we're not married, not that it makes any difference to the apparent crime). And I can confirm that the situation between myself and my partner regarding this particular aspect of our relationship is one of concealment and denial.

To get back on topic, question: We started off talking about the 'unknowing partner, and immediately leapt to sexual infidelity. But what about emotional infidelity? Does anyone have a perspective on that? I'm guessing cyber-relationships might fall into the latter camp...

There's an old saying that suggests that the difference between men and women is that a man can cope with his wife loving another man as long as she doesn't sleep with him, whereas a woman can cope with her husband sleeping with another woman as long as he doesn't love her. Personally, I think there's a truth there, but I don't think the split is along gender lines. What do you think? Or is emotional infidelity just so much nonsense?

Thanks for clearing that first part up. Unfortunately, it brought with it another bit of confusion. I thought you had referred to your partner as your wife in another post. If you have a preference for one term over the other, I'll happily use whichever is more accurate.

As to the other part, I think what you might be asking is if people take the term "monogamous" literally. When I'm in a monogamous relationship, that means that I have one partner. One and only one and that covers all things including sexual and romantic. I would count the cyber stuff in on that definition.

I only have our experience to go on, but in our case, when we transitioned from monogamous to poly, My other half was actually more concerned with emotional attachments than the sexual. It took him a while to understand that there would be an emotional bond between Myself and the male submissives. The sexual contact wasn't nearly as much of a hurdle for him.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/6/2010 6:12:23 PM

femasoslave

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In my personal opinion........a TRUE dominant does not lie....so if in the circumstance that a vanilla partner finds out...then that so called dominant...is NOT a dominant....they are just a player

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/6/2010 6:33:46 PM

Lucienne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: femasoslave

In my personal opinion........a TRUE dominant

I have the deepest respect for people who manage to visit and participate in these forums on a long term regular basis. Not sure how you do it, but I'll just throw in my thanks that you stick around to share your experiences.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/6/2010 7:49:55 PM

Jeffff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

you launched a personal attack which you then rescinded after he posted. It would seem your posting is lacking in integrity on many levels hertz

Really? Please explain, laurell3. Who did I attack? And what did I say?

How disingenuous. I hope you sleep well tonight.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 5:40:40 AM

Firebirdseeking

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I dont think this is all that complicated. It's about honesty and integrity.

I realize that at times, people may have another partner, for reasons that are known and which make sense to ALL parties. That is quite a different matter from cheating that just "happens" (are we teenagers here??). Or, far more complex, cheating, being unfaithful, is a response in a relationship where an essential part is broken, but both parties are too invested, either financially, or emotionally, in a codependent manner, to leave, or to fix it. I can see illness making someone unavailable for sexual intimacy, and if that is a permanent condition, then those individuals need to work something out with integrity, perhaps. However: I have heard "my wife is no longer interested in sex because of menopause" *or some other paltry excuse. Well, perhaps those individuals need to take a broad view of the marriage. Sexual intimacy does not happen in a vacuum. If there is not a sexual connection, it generally means that there is something central wrong in the relationship. I am sorry to be so blunt, but the average length of time that (heteroxesual) couples spend on sexual intimacy is 7 minutes, start to finish. No wonder so many women lose interest in sex, we feel used, like a receptacle. And often, if sex is not readily available, the other partner pouts like a child. Well, who wants to be intimate with someone who reacts like a child??

It takes a lot of work to fix a relationship. Most people would rather not deal with it. They have affairs. Perhaps one person has tried to bring his or her concerns to the table, and those concerns have been ignored. So an affair results. Understandable. But - still not the answer, and now more pain will result.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 8:07:11 AM

LadyRian

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I just escaped a situation related to this very topic-
I don't know how much the vanilla partner knew, however, I must admit that I was exceptionally naive because I truly believed that the man involved had fallen in love with Me, that his marriage was ending, bla, bla, the whole bit.

I'm exceptionally fortunate that I got out before the vanilla partner discovered My personal involvement. The reason I ended things is that I put too many puzzle pieces together, everything came to a head all at once, and I was shown, in ugly detail who I was actually dealing with. This was after 2 1/2 years of what I now consider to be partial truths, with a liberal dollop of outright lies. Too many problems there. The worst part, for Me, is that I love the man dearly, in spite of his obvious faults. But the healthiest thing for Me to do was walk away, as it became clear that no matter what he was telling me, he really wasn't going to divorce, as he had alleged.

In view of what I now know, the person in question will either be discovered very soon, by his vanilla partner, and all hell will break loose, or they will suffer on in mutual denial and toxicity. But it won't be Me who's on the receiving end, and I'm bloody glad of it.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 1:49:20 PM

hertz

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quote:

How disingenuous. I hope you sleep well tonight

I not that you have still not answered the question I asked you, Jefffffff. I will ask you one more time. Who did I attack, and what did I say to them?

The reason you are unable to answer the question is because you know it did not happen. I am not going to ask you again.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 2:19:41 PM

hertz

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quote:

LadyPact: I thought you had referred to your partner as your wife in another post.

I started my replies by talking about a theoretical relationship - others were talking husband and wife, so I went with it. But I decided that I needed to explain why I was holding such a contrary position, and decided to share my own personal situation, which differs in this small matter. Apologies for the confusion.

quote:

In my personal opinion........a TRUE dominant does not lie

QFT. Unfortunately, it has been my experience that people who call themselves 'dominant' are sometimes very willing to lie in order to save face.

quote:

Firebirdseeking: Or, far more complex, cheating, being unfaithful, is a response in a relationship where an essential part is broken, but both parties are too invested, either financially, or emotionally, in a codependent manner, to leave, or to fix it. I can see illness making someone unavailable for sexual intimacy, and if that is a permanent condition, then those individuals need to work something out with integrity, perhaps.

I agree that a more open and honest response would be ideal. I have never suggested otherwise. I am not suggesting cheating as a lifestyle choice, but only as a plausible last resort.

I wonder about your use of the term 'integrity'. From where I stand, to 'work things out with integrity' suggests an open and honest dialogue must happen, and agreement must be reached. This is the very definition of integrity. On the surface, this seems a pretty water-tight argument. Lies can never be part of a relationship, can they?

However, if insisting on integrity results in the breaking of the relationship altogether, is that really preferable? Surely, if acting with integrity is going to destroy the very thing it is supposedly protecting, then there are questions to be asked? And this is my dilemma. I have a relationship which is damaged in a fairly obvious way. But it's a relationship I value highly, as does my partner. My tentative exploration of the difficulty in the relationship suggests to me that making an open and honest deal in order to fulfill my own (selfish) needs would lead to disaster and could threaten the stability of the relationship - and it is a very stable relationship. I believe this to be true, and my partner's responses to date, in a theoretical kind of way, suggests to me that she does not want to take the risk of breaking things any more than I do.

Choices. It comes down to choices. Do I risk breaking everything in order to maintain 'integrity'? Or do I throw integrity to the winds and risk being judged for my dishonesty? Of course this sort of question will lead to snorts of derision from those morally unblemished souls who are minded to sit in judgement, but there is little I can do about that. I have chosen to dismiss my integrity in favour of maintaining a damaged relationship and getting my needs met. It's as simple as that.

NB Edited to correct a quote fault, not to retract a personal attack...

< Message edited by hertz -- 9/7/2010 2:20:55 PM >

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 3:42:33 PM

Jeffff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

How disingenuous. I hope you sleep well tonight

I not that you have still not answered the question I asked you, Jefffffff. I will ask you one more time. Who did I attack, and what did I say to them?

The reason you are unable to answer the question is because you know it did not happen. I am not going to ask you again.

The attack was against Laurell because of who her friends were.

You then deleted the post because standing behind your words is something you seem to find unnecessary.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 3:47:34 PM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

How disingenuous. I hope you sleep well tonight

I not that you have still not answered the question I asked you, Jefffffff. I will ask you one more time. Who did I attack, and what did I say to them?

The reason you are unable to answer the question is because you know it did not happen. I am not going to ask you again.

Your postings are both lacking in intelligence and intergrity. I saw the post. For your information, I don't always agree with my friends or even Jeff for that matter and post contrary when it's applicable. Review my posts over the last 4 months we've been together or the last two to three years that we have been friends and you will see that is the case. Wait, it's easier to launch an attack without having any idea the content is true, isn't it?

On this issue we do agree, thankfully, cheating is cheating. Thankfully our relationship works because neither of us would endanger the other by playing semantics games to feed our own ego and get laid outside of that promise.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 5:52:18 PM

Jeffff

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Uma Thurman...... not cheating

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 5:54:48 PM

laurell3

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haha oh yeah....I'd do her too...she's on the it so would NOT be cheating list, by agreement.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 5:55:04 PM

Aynne88

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laurell.....not cheating.

.

Hahahahah.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 5:56:12 PM

laurell3

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haha oh yeah Aynne you're on the list....I already made that clear...MY list that is

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 5:58:33 PM

Aynne88

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*on* the list? Bitch! I am on the top of your list!

. STOMP!

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 5:59:38 PM

laurell3

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Jesus is at the top of my not cheating list! Do you think you're better than Jesus you cunt?

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 6:30:58 PM

Aynne88

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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Jesus is at the top of my not cheating list! Do you think you're better than Jesus you cunt?

Yes! He is bisexual and dominate! hahaha!

Oh for the "others" no shit, I meant to say that ;)

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/7/2010 6:52:51 PM

LadyHibiscus

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I love that Jefff knows the word "disingenuous".

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 9/8/2010 5:09:54 AM

Firebirdseeking

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Hertz: you say your relationship is damaged in a very obvious way, but that it is a very stable relationship. That seems to be a contradiction to me.

As is often the case, we have moved from the general discussion of cheating, to a specific case. You obviously have a very difficult, personal situation, and as is often the case, I wind up with the sense that good, professional help may help you ferret out all the elements of your situation. I dont know how your relationship is damaged; I dont know if the damage is permanent; I dont know what your partner thinks might be a solution; and most of all, I dont know if the problem has had the open and honest communication that it requires.

I know someone whose (now deceased) wife had MS for 10 years until she passed. He quit his job to care for her, in the home. He was a loving and devoted husband. The wife could not, because of illness, be a wife to him in the full sense of the word, and she did not want him to be without not just sexually intimacy, but also other aspects of a caring relationship that she could not provide. They spoke of this openly, and arrived at a solution that worked for both of them, and involved the wife's best friend. Irrespective of what others may think of this, to me, it was a solution with that word again - integrity - because all parties knew the situation.

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