Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out...


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 4:52:09 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

since your pushing for the sleazes side, how do you think the sick person feels, to know they cant do it anymore? Hmm? How do you think chemo affects the body, where you spend hours throwing up and the mere thought of sex makes you want to vomit, and you know your failing your partner, you know you arent making him happy...

its not either parties fault of why one got sick, however to punish someone by stepping out because they cant wait or their dicks more important then their so... thats more then sleaze thats molded rotten baked in the sun pond scum


You are incredibly judgmental.

If I were ever that sick I would really try to be understanding about my husband's physical needs, and I probably wouldn't want to hear about it or get involved in any way...but I'd rather have him still sexually satisfied and able to love me and grow old with me than have him resent me for not being able to meet all of his needs.

Celibacy for the rest of your life is pretty extreme. Anything that monasteries are known for is probably going to be extreme. I really don't think it's fair for you to assume a healthy young person in the prime of his life is going to find it easy to stay celibate just because he's unable to have sex with the woman he loves.

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 4:54:14 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I found out someone I was with had a wife. I found her, called her because I didn't know what she knew and I had been the other woman. I was not happy! (Amazing what google can do!) I wanted to help in anyway I could if I ignorantly caused any pain, by his deceptions. It was hard to decide what to do and I didn't rush out and do anything. I weighed everything out, used the information I did have and talked to someone who has similar ethic's to my own. We decided that good or bad, it was what I could live with because I wanted to say I was sorry woman to woman for what I didn't know and hurting her.

We became good friends. She respected my showing up and helping her understand what had really happened and supporting her through her pain because it was a two by four to her head. Everything was hidden from her, a whole other life all while he let her know she was the love of his life, didn't know how he could be so lucky that she picked him and how great their life was. Three days before it was over she was his beloved, two days before she found out about many women, not just me and then there he was at my door earlier than expected.

She admitted that had I not called her and helped her to understand what just happened to her life, when I got wind of his true story and booted him from my life, she might have taken him back. Now she is happy with someone real and doing well.

Of course she could have reacted far differently and I half expected it, but I would not be the other woman willingly and wanted her to know that. Somehow I felt that might make it better than thinking another woman had set out to steal a married man... her man. For her, it helped. (And I would do it again.)

I won't even carry on an email connection with a married man unless I am in communication with the partner. If I know... anyway. How that one got passed my radar was a good lesson for me.



I actually made a friend the same way, an ex boyfriend of mine had another gf, she emailed me and told me, and we ended up meeting for coffee and hanging out all night. I helped her pack because she was moving to California and we still keep in touch on facebook.

I'd never give a guy the satisfaction of fighting over him. Haha.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 5:14:17 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you, Elisabella. I was beginning to feel like a dirtbag.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 5:55:33 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		FR:

I had to put some thought into this. What would I do if Ma'am became ill enough to not have sex or meet my desire for play time? What about the other way around? I mean, yeah she's poly and has been super up front with me about that and poly isn't about just being able to leave the house to fuck whenever you want.

I think what people tend to forget is that sex is a relationship need. It's not just a want. It meets physical and emotional needs within a relationship, Maslow listed sex twice in his hierarchy of needs for a reason and to ignore that fact with macho or sometimes romantic ideals of "oh it's just sex" is a bad idea.

For those of you who know Ma'am and myself, you might be familiar with a car accident in which Ma'am broke her back, about 5 years ago. It was a correctable combustion fracture that resulted in a spinal fusion between her lower thoracic and upper lumbar spine. The fusion severely limits some of her natural flexibility but mostly damages her body's ability to absorb impact or jarring. This means that we can't go riding roller coasters any more. We both LOVE to ride roller coasters and really wanted to go to Cedar Park together at some point. Roller coasters are a great way to get a thrill or adrenaline rush in a fairly safe way. It's an awesome way to spend a summer weekend or day. We can't do that.

But my back isn't injured. I really like to go on roller coasters. Talking about the stupid, fun stuff Ma'am can't do anymore (like wear even short heels for more than an hour) is REALLY hard for her. It's brought her to tears on more than one occasion. She WANTS to do these things to but she can't cuz she's hurt. I don't see this as any different than sex. Getting a safe adrenaline high is a need. It's part of why people fuck or fight. So what am I supposed to do?

I can talk to her about this thing she wishes she could do with me but can't and we can sit and talk to her neurosurgeon about what kind of impact is acceptable. Would her body be ok if she took a motron before going to deal with preventive pain and we only did the little traditional not so jerk around rides? Would it damage her if she took something stronger cuz she really wants to go on these rides and if it's just muscle soreness we can get over that but if it's wearing down the joints above and below the fusion we're causing damage and that ain't good. Can we attempt to go to the park together and do stuff separately that's safe for her and fun for me and will that be good with her without triggering the whole "I really wish I could do that?

Do I just tell her I'm going to a double feature at the movies and go with friends? Do I ask her if she'd be ok with me going with a mutual friend and hanging out all day? Do I go while she's at work and never say a thing? Do I just suck it up and never hope to go on a roller coaster again?

I think a loving partner knows and appreciates the needs of their partner. I think if a monogamous relationship ran into this situation of illness, a responsible partner would maintain information boundaries and not get all wrapped up in a poor, pity me I'm sick and you can't have any fun because of it kinda party. To me, if a sick partner isn't willing to put forth the effort to meet their partner's needs, then they aren't really doing their part in the relationship.

boi


_____________________________


Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 6:08:33 AM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

since your pushing for the sleazes side, how do you think the sick person feels, to know they cant do it anymore? Hmm? How do you think chemo affects the body, where you spend hours throwing up and the mere thought of sex makes you want to vomit, and you know your failing your partner, you know you arent making him happy...

its not either parties fault of why one got sick, however to punish someone by stepping out because they cant wait or their dicks more important then their so... thats more then sleaze thats molded rotten baked in the sun pond scum


You are incredibly judgmental.

If I were ever that sick I would really try to be understanding about my husband's physical needs, and I probably wouldn't want to hear about it or get involved in any way...but I'd rather have him still sexually satisfied and able to love me and grow old with me than have him resent me for not being able to meet all of his needs.

Celibacy for the rest of your life is pretty extreme. Anything that monasteries are known for is probably going to be extreme. I really don't think it's fair for you to assume a healthy young person in the prime of his life is going to find it easy to stay celibate just because he's unable to have sex with the woman he loves.


Theres a difference between having a conversation from the sick person bringing it up and sayin hey baby this chemos kicking the CRAP out of me and i get you have needs just be safe and dont tell me...

is different from saying hey my partner is going through chemo and i dont have the balls to talk to her about it, so im going to expose myself and my partner if she lives through this, to an untold amount of diseases, because well im a sleaze ball.

Most of the examples hertz provided were sleazy. If i was sick and could no longer provide for my owner, Id end the romantic relationship with him and hope hed find someone to make him happy, but its different if you talk about it.... and you go behind their back. being dishonest already strains a situation thats in a shitty spot to begin with.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 6:50:15 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Theres a difference between having a conversation from the sick person bringing it up and sayin hey baby this chemos kicking the CRAP out of me and i get you have needs just be safe and dont tell me...


So in your opinion, it's OK for someone to look to have their unmet emotional/sexual needs met elsewhere, as long as they don't raise the subject themselves? Or am I missing something?

quote:

is different from saying hey my partner is going through chemo and i dont have the balls to talk to her about it, so im going to expose myself and my partner if she lives through this, to an untold amount of diseases, because well im a sleaze ball.


Is that what anyone suggested? Or is it you putting your personal experiences onto what someone else is saying?

quote:

If i was sick and could no longer provide for my owner, Id end the romantic relationship with him and hope hed find someone to make him happy,


But what if you were sick and you didn't want to do that, and neither did your partner? Are you saying that there are certain elements in all relationships which are fixed, and cannot be negotiated, ever? And if these things are broken, then the whole thing must be broken?

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 7:08:10 AM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		Perhaps we need to think about how long you're talking about no sex. While a few weeks or months is un pleasant, it's not life-ending. I know people whose partners were dealing with chemo and stuff and they lost *their* want for sex too. The intimacy of their relationship didn't suffer because they kept up that part but the insert tab A into slot B part wasn't central to their relationship. They used cuddling and such to get their physical needs for intimacy met. If you're talking Alzheimer's or some other long-term debilitating disease, that's different. Sex, for all that it's important is a want, not a need. Celibacy won't kill you; it'll just make you wish you could die. BTDT.

_____________________________

"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
(uncollared 12/21/09 with his death. RIP my Santa)

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 7:24:21 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Sorry folks, but the fact of the matter is that sex is not a need.  It's a want.  To the best of My knowledge, there is not any scientific proof that sex with another person makes any difference in higher physical health than masturbation.  Celibacy is not a death sentence.  If it were, military spouses would be dropping off like flies when active duty members were deployed.  Personally, I'm not dead yet and neither is anyone else who, for various reasons, doesn't have an active sex life for a period of time.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 7:59:28 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		LadyPact,

I have a hard time accepting the line "sex is a want, not a need". Primarily because of studies like the one published in 2001 GA State Prof. Donnelly. The study highlighted some specific points. The study focused on the causes of involuntary celibacy and consequences.

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a918495697

The study found that involuntary celibacy resulted in increased risk behaviors, violence, and clinical depression with a decrease in ability to form or maintain healthy relationships in adults. So while someone might not die as a direct result of not having sex, their relationships will suffer, their overall physical and psychological well-being will suffer, and involuntary sex can result in a cycle of more involuntary sex.

I need to find the linked source...the social suggestion was that in military situations, soldiers were more aggressive and hostile prior to mid-tour leave and less so afterward when spending time with a spouse or SO. Presumably, sex has a factor in that.

boi

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 8/23/2010 8:00:01 AM >

_____________________________


Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 8:03:49 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		As suggested by sublizzie, it's the persistence of the issue is all-important. Some guy going off whilst his partner is pregnant, or has a cold is one thing. Some guy re-evaluating everything because his much loved SO has been unwell for years, and may well never allow him near her again, and maybe won't discuss it, is another thing altogether. In my opinion.

We're way off the original topic, I guess. All I wanted to suggest really from the beginning is that honesty is not always the best policy, and things are not always as they seem.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 8:08:38 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		Honesty is always the best policy. To operate otherwise sets you, your partner(s), and the relationship(s) up for failure. And purposefully setting anybody up for failure makes you (general) a douchbag.

Honesty in who you are and what you want and honesty in discussing these possibilities and the what-ifs of relationships...oh yeah honesty really is the best policy.

If a person cannot be honest about a need within their relationship (sex in this discussion) no matter what's going on, there's a HUGE issue at hand, and the need (sex) isn't it.

boi

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 8/23/2010 8:09:24 AM >

_____________________________


Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 8:08:54 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I think there are a lot of things that are specifically relationship needs. The person will survive without them, but the relationship probably won't. Those include sex, emotional intimacy, trust, chemistry/attraction, and so forth. People might hang in there a while without one of those elements but it's likely to become unhealthy for both people if their needs in that area are opposed or strongly incompatible.

If I were sick or otherwise physically couldn't have sex with my partner, I would be open to discussing a poly relationship, but I wouldn't want him sneaking behind my back. I consider anyone who has sex without their partner's ok to be cheating, regardless of the circumstances. I agree that if they specifically want a "DADT" situation, that it isn't cheating, but I personally would not get involved with anyone who was romantically involved without meeting their partner and discussing it. I wouldn't need to go to their home right away, but at least meet for coffee or something at a public, neutral location.

If someone lied to me and I discovered they had a SO already, I would let them know what happened, if I knew how to get in touch with them. Hertz, someone who would lie to their wife or gf probably wouldn't have any compunction about lying to me either, or feel they owed me any honesty whatsoever. That's part of why I wouldn't want to get involved with them.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 8/23/2010 8:22:19 AM >

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 8:18:26 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Honesty is always the best policy.


In an ideal world, I agree. In a world where honesty may lead to misery and pain, and the destruction of a lot of good, then I am not so sure. None of us are entirely honest all of the time. Unless everyone I know is a douche!

But I agree with your later comment:

quote:

If a person cannot be honest about a need within their relationship (sex in this discussion) no matter what's going on, there's a HUGE issue at hand, and the need (sex) isn't it.


Sometimes all we get to see is the top of the iceberg, and sometimes a bit of careful navigation around it is preferable to confronting it head on.


(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 8:29:40 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Honesty is always the best policy. To operate otherwise sets you, your partner(s), and the relationship(s) up for failure. And purposefully setting anybody up for failure makes you (general) a douchbag.

Honesty in who you are and what you want and honesty in discussing these possibilities and the what-ifs of relationships...oh yeah honesty really is the best policy.

If a person cannot be honest about a need within their relationship (sex in this discussion) no matter what's going on, there's a HUGE issue at hand, and the need (sex) isn't it.

boi

Is there any way that you can fix the link that is in your prior post?  I would appreciate it a great deal.

The post that I quoted above gets no disagreement with Me.  (I'm sure you already know that.  )

I have the advantage of going into My marriage that there would be periods of celibacy up front.  Please remember that we did not start as poly and our agreement that evolved is closed poly only.  When both of them are in different locations, there is no sex and this is part of what we live by.  I happen to think that most people entering a marriage that is monogamous really do understand that "in sickness and in health" part does include a possible situation in life where one party may become ill.  Doing otherwise, in My opinion, is rather short sighted.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 8:45:21 AM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		At my age getting involved with someone whose wife has dementia of some kind is a real possibility. I wouldn't have a problem with that *if they can prove it*. It's the proving it that may prove problematic for them. I can still remember an irate email from some guy's wife stating that I should never contact her husband again. I hadn't been in contact with him in months so it was no skin off my nose but he'd said he was divorced. Big surprise to find out he wasn't!

_____________________________

"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
(uncollared 12/21/09 with his death. RIP my Santa)

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 9:46:36 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I happen to think that most people entering a marriage that is monogamous really do understand that "in sickness and in health" part does include a possible situation in life where one party may become ill.  Doing otherwise, in My opinion, is rather short sighted.


Two things strike me about this.

Firstly, I am not convinced many of us go into marriage with the absolute ability to ensure that the vow we make today is something we will be able to live by tomorrow. Personally, I think this sort of 'forever and ever' vow was fine a thousand years ago when neither party was likely to live past 40, but nowadays, when both parties could live to be 90, and married for 70 years, I suspect it is a bit of a task to keep it going. We all understand the vows I am sure, but I suspect none of us realise what they might actually mean in any real sense. This might be short-sighted, but most of us, when it comes to this really are short-sighted. If you know at the age of 30 how you are going to feel about your partner at the age of 70, then you are a truly outstanding human being.

Secondly, not every long term relationship is a marriage in the conventional sense. Sometimes, long-term relationships are not created in the exchange of vows in a church, public building, or anywhere else for that matter. It doesn't make any practical difference that some relationships evolve from a drunken fumble at a party into a into long term relationship, but sometimes the basis on which a relationship is built may be less than clear, and it may not be possible to point at the vows made in a ceremony and say: 'This is what you contracted to do - now deliver!'


EDIT The 'in reply to' is wrong. I'm quoting LadyPact...


< Message edited by hertz -- 8/23/2010 9:50:16 AM >

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 10:34:08 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

I am not convinced many of us....ensure that the vow we make today is something we will be able to live by tomorrow. Personally, I think this sort of 'forever and ever'.... I suspect it is a bit of a task to keep it going.... I suspect none of us realise what they might actually mean in any real sense.




I only want to deal with this little bit.

Where I come from, you don't make a promise today, about tomorrow that you aren't 100% sure you can deliver on. Call me crazy, when it comes to promises, I expect people to keep them (I don't think I'm alone in that) and I also expect that if something changes and the promise can't be kept, that the person who made the promise will tell me what I can expect instead...cuz that's the right thing to do! All relationships are, at times, a concentrated effort to keep going. This is as true today as it was "a thousand years ago". As for the traditional vows....well...they spell out the expectation...."for richer or for poorer; in sickness and in health; til death do us part...." As with ANY contract, if you are not completely certain of the obligation that you take on when you sign the dotted line, you shouldn't take it on in the first fuckin place.

boi

Disclaimer: all "you"s are general in nature.

LadyPact, I'm working on the link.


_____________________________


Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 10:34:14 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

I happen to think that most people entering a marriage that is monogamous really do understand that "in sickness and in health" part does include a possible situation in life where one party may become ill.  Doing otherwise, in My opinion, is rather short sighted.


Two things strike me about this.

Firstly, I am not convinced many of us go into marriage with the absolute ability to ensure that the vow we make today is something we will be able to live by tomorrow. Personally, I think this sort of 'forever and ever' vow was fine a thousand years ago when neither party was likely to live past 40, but nowadays, when both parties could live to be 90, and married for 70 years, I suspect it is a bit of a task to keep it going. We all understand the vows I am sure, but I suspect none of us realise what they might actually mean in any real sense. This might be short-sighted, but most of us, when it comes to this really are short-sighted. If you know at the age of 30 how you are going to feel about your partner at the age of 70, then you are a truly outstanding human being.


EDIT The 'in reply to' is wrong. I'm quoting LadyPact...




I am surrounded by truly outstanding human beings, then. Yet another thing to be thankful for.

If you can stand in front of a group of family and friends and MAKE A VOW THAT YOU DO NOT INTEND TO KEEP, then you really are the lowest of the low. Commitment is about maintaining the relationship, changing as situations change, and accepting the best and the worst. No, we do not know what will happen in the future. But to START out knowing that you will just bail? Disgraceful.



_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 10:38:41 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

In an ideal world, I agree. In a world where honesty may lead to misery and pain, and the destruction of a lot of good, then I am not so sure. None of us are entirely honest all of the time. Unless everyone I know is a douche!


Honesty only leads to misery or pain when it's following a lie. This is true in all cases. Lies by omission or willful breaking of contract or understanding are still lies; in the case of breaking of contract or understanding it's a lie to break the contract (promise) by not following through on the agreement to maintain the contract or promise.

boi

Not sure why I can't edit previous posts now.


< Message edited by BoiJen -- 8/23/2010 10:39:07 AM >

_____________________________


Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 10:44:01 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
Where I come from, you don't make a promise today, about tomorrow that you aren't 100% sure you can deliver on. Call me crazy, when it comes to promises, I expect people to keep them (I don't think I'm alone in that) and I also expect that if something changes and the promise can't be kept, that the person who made the promise will tell me what I can expect instead...cuz that's the right thing to do!

I personally find these two statements mutually contradictory. If I only made promises about tomorrow that I was 100% sure I can deliver on, then I would never, ever, under any circumstances, make any promise. In my world, the future is both uncertain and not completely within my control. The only things I know for a 100% fact are things which are in the past... and even a lot of those are muddier than I'd like. For me, a promise is a statement of intent, not a statement of fact.

Obviously, your mileage varies.



_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125