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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/25/2010 12:15:12 AM

Elisabella

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quote:

However, when you take those vows, no matter what, they say "foresaking all others".

That line actually wasn't in either of our vows.

We didn't intentionally leave it out or anything, it's just funny to think that neither of us actually vowed fidelity at our wedding.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/25/2010 3:09:26 AM

Firebirdseeking

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Judgmental? well, maybe I have heard and seen more than you have in my "advanced" years. Infidelity often causes a lot of pain. As another poster commented, the problems are definitely there before the line is crossed, but it does seem that that act of crossing the line is the kicker.

I dont give a rip if people arent monogamous. I just dont understand why be married if you do not wish to live within the bonds of marriage. Or, if for whatever reason(s) the 2 individuals agree to have an different set up. Otherwise, its a financial arrangement, isnt it?

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/25/2010 3:58:15 AM

wandersalone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

For what it's worth, I think there may be occasions when what some of you are describing as 'cheating' is anything but that. I'm going to put the BDSM element to one side for a moment. Imagine if you will this scenario:

One of a couple in a long term committed relationship becomes unwell,

I gotta say Hertz.... the other woman got a shock when she saw me out and about, living my life fully a number of years ago as the douchebag I was with and had sucked her in with a sob story about how I was depressed and wouldn't have sex with him, couldn't leave my bed for months at a time blah blah blah. I have to say that little confrontation though a huge shock for me was incredibly satisfying in some ways as he didn't have anywhere to run to ha ha

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz
All I wanted to suggest really from the beginning is that honesty is not always the best policy, and things are not always as they seem.

Well I don't know, I think the "other woman" was wishing like hell that my ex had been honest with her about his "sick"partner

One of the first questions I ask is if people are married, committed in any way or have someone who would be upset to find out they had been intimate with someone else. I don't mind if people want to have secret relationships outside their primary relationship, I just refuse to be involved.

ps. I actually felt sorry for the woman when she saw me and my partner, she was devastated and I ended up comforting her lol

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/25/2010 12:41:16 PM

Lockit

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Well, I don't know Hertz... I never cheated, lied to or played games with the men who cheated and lied to me when my illness manifested, some knowing before the relationship... simply because they were weak, stupid liars. That's about as sick or as sick a disease as anything I could come up with.

If there is a good excuse to become less honest, honorable or ethical to get your cum on, I guess we can find it if we look hard enough.

Personally, I have covered it all with anyone I was with. I've never gotten to the point where I couldn't have great sex though at some point I am sure that could happen. What I found the most was that no matter what I said or how I handled things, they didn't believe me and 'thought' sex would bother me even when I said it helped! I have talked of what would happen if this ever did happen. How we could honestly deal with things right from the start... they didn't want the honesty. They wanted the fun of being with me with no plans of being faithful or staying when things got rough.

Someone who will cheat can find justification, somewhere. Whether their partner(s) agree that it is justifiable is another story.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/25/2010 1:38:07 PM

cloudboy

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quote:

while i agree with you, it that situation, i would have prefered him to say that she isn't comfortable with it, instead of dropping off the face of the planet.

A married man does not need an outsider meddling either in his marriage or his privacy; once you crossed that boundary (wanting to meet his wife) you were out. The only thing surprising is your surprise.

One good rule relating to marrieds is: let them call their own shots and boundaries where the marriage is concerned. If you cannot abide by those decisions, stay out. Thinking you know better is a mistake.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/25/2010 1:41:32 PM >

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/25/2010 1:44:34 PM

hertz

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The big difficulty with this conversation is that we are all bringing our individual and personal experiences to the table and talking about them as if they were all the same thing and the same situation being seen from the same viewpoint. But I don't think that's what we have here.

What we actually have is a whole bunch of different situations going on which involve a certain degree of messiness around what should be clearly defined relationship boundaries. My experience suggests to me that shit happens. The fairy tales are wrong, usually, and things are almost never what they seem. If that sounds like I'm justifying cheating, then I'm just going to have to find a way of living with that judgement...

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/25/2010 2:16:09 PM

LadyHibiscus

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It sounds like a lot of you men are justifying cheating. Which is fine for you, it's your life.

MY boundary is that I will not take on a married sub without meeting the spouse. If that is a no-go, I MOVE ON. Before anything happens, before possible cheating is even an issue. There are plenty of other folks who don't have the personal rules that I do, we're all free to look elsewhere.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/25/2010 2:37:01 PM

hertz

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I agree with you, Lady Hibiscus. That's totally the right thing to do if that's how you want to do it.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/25/2010 2:40:36 PM

LadyHibiscus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

I agree with you, Lady Hibiscus. That's totally the right thing to do if that's how you want to do it.

What I wish? Is that the married but sneaking guys would quit WHINING at me to change my mind!! No means no, just go away!!

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/25/2010 7:27:47 PM

DemonKia

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FR

My anti-cheating stance was developed long before I found the out-&-organized kink world. That it's such a widely shared value in BDSM 'communities' is yet another stoner bonus . . . . . .

To me, kink is, in part, a manifestation of how intensely I experience relationships. Someone who's 'otherwise occupied' (ie, married, significant other, girl/boyfriend, whatevah) has no capacity to be what I'm looking for in relationship . . .. I'm not really into any of the casual play partners, friends with benefits, having an affair kinds of arrangements . . . . . .

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 8/25/2010 7:28:07 PM >

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/26/2010 2:11:25 AM

ranja

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i don't think cheating is always bad,
i don't think people always need to be... or are even capable of always being 100% honest... sometimes to be that honest is just totally rude and uncaring.
i think people who say they never lie or cheat are very untrustworthy or deluded
i think having a regular and exiting sex life is a very important way to make yourself feel good and make your life very worth living

i think people have to be prepared to live with the possible consequences of the choices they make and feel as little sorry for themselves as they can...
to wallow in self pity over some unjust thing someone (or life) has done to you is just such a bore.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/26/2010 3:06:15 AM

Firebirdseeking

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Oh yea, right, its such a bore to be honest and to have integrity. Its such a bore to have a boring marriage and to need to seek an exciting sex life outside of marriage and the hell with everyone else.

Rationalizing and denial are SUCH good coping tools, arent they.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/26/2010 3:21:28 AM

KyttynTheMynx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

i don't think cheating is always bad,
i don't think people always need to be... or are even capable of always being 100% honest... sometimes to be that honest is just totally rude and uncaring.
i think people who say they never lie or cheat are very untrustworthy or deluded
i think having a regular and exiting sex life is a very important way to make yourself feel good and make your life very worth living

i think people have to be prepared to live with the possible consequences of the choices they make and feel as little sorry for themselves as they can...
to wallow in self pity over some unjust thing someone (or life) has done to you is just such a bore.

So, because someone can keep it in their pants and not screw everyone, they are untrustworthy and deluded? Wow. I should add that to my profile since I have never cheated on a partner. lol.

Lying is a different story. I have told a few, mostly to spare feelings. *shrugs* sometimes its gotta be done.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/26/2010 3:24:28 AM

DemonKia

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White Lie.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/26/2010 3:36:14 AM

KyttynTheMynx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

White Lie.

Sheez....Now I am gonna hum that all day, Kia!

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/26/2010 4:11:05 AM

SorceressJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja
i don't think cheating is always bad,

Yes, actually, it is. Cheating is lying, both to yourself and to the person being lied to. Any relationship with this as an ingredient is doomed.

quote:

i don't think people always need to be... or are even capable of always being 100% honest... sometimes to be that honest is just totally rude and uncaring.

That's not the kind of honesty being discussed here. Telling someone a lie in a relationship with regard to cheating is -NOT- sparing their feelings, believe Me.

quote:

i think people who say they never lie or cheat are very untrustworthy or deluded.

..ok, let Me get this straight, because I'm not sure I'm scanning it right.. if I don't lie to or cheat on My committed partner, than I.. can't be trusted?! Hmm. Nope, doesn't make sense.. and in My personal case, is absolutely untrue.

quote:

i think having a regular and exiting sex life is a very important way to make yourself feel good and make your life very worth living.
i think people have to be prepared to live with the possible consequences of the choices they make and feel as little sorry for themselves as they can...
to wallow in self pity over some unjust thing someone (or life) has done to you is just such a bore.

Now these three points, yes, are all well-made and true enough. Some of them are harder to learn than others. Sex is fun and pleasure is good for you, and makes you feel healthy and worthy and the sun shines all the brighter for it. Living with consequences is something we are not always good at. Self-pity is non-constructive.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/26/2010 5:54:27 AM

sophiesback

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Up until now, I have never been faithful in a relationship in my life, not even to my former master. I couldn't imagine anyone I ever cheated with feeling the need to go to my significant other and spill their guts about it. Why would you do that? I did comfort a girl once that found out my husband was, well, my husband. He had been telling her he was single. I smoothed it over by telling her we had an open marriage (we did not at the time), and to not feel guilt over that - anger at him for lying to her but no guilt because of his relationship with me.

Now, though I get flirted with & I flirt alot, I have absolutely no desire to be with another man without Master's permission. Yes, if I truly wanted to have sex with someone else, he would allow me to. He even gave me permission once, but I declined. Yay! I finally grew up and realized THIS relationship is where I wanna be!

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/26/2010 11:39:22 AM

Lockit

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So people who lie or cheat and get caught, rather than tell the truth are less delusional and more honest than those who simply refuse to lie or cheat and shouldn't admit they refuse to do these things because they might be viewed as less honest and delusional?

Refusing to lie or cheat is a choice and they can be promises to ourselves because that is the type of person we want to be. To say that one would be delusional or a liar because someone made that choice and kept it is basically saying that everyone is a liar and a cheat and is a liar if they don't admit it.

Because I told a lie or even maybe cheated at some point in my life... I cannot see the error at some point and wish to change that? Or I was raised not to do these things and just didn't, that would make me a liar and delusional because everyone lies and cheats?

I was never a big liar but I did tell the occasional lie, mostly about an appointment I couldn't keep or a day missed from work because I didn't want to admit to how sick I was with my employer. I had a family to house and feed and employers don't want ill employee's. I never cheated on a man or relationship and have lied once to a person I was involved with to protect him and I will never do that again! I did tell my children three lies their whole life as they didn't need to know the truth as they were too young to deal with the truth. I decided once when the Olen Mill's girl called to sell me pictures and I lied and told her that I had just had pictures done the week before... and cried about lying to her... that I wasn't going to lie again. I HATE deception and lies, more than I need to tell them most of the time. I love truth and laugh when I hear it because I find truth so beautiful, even if I don't like what I am hearing.

A lie I tell hurts me inside more than it could hurt the person I am lying to because I know the lie I could tell is the type of lie I would tell. I didn't hurt the Olen Mill's girl... but I hurt myself.

I did lie again. I did tell someone I was interested in them because they were lying about me and I was trapping them to prove they were lying about me and to prove to someone else the games they were playing. But I do claim to be someone who doesn't lie in a personal relationship and rarely if ever at any other time. I don't like how a lie makes me feel or how it breaks down any trust that someone could have for me. I still hate that I lied to prove my innocence in a situation with a huge liar trying to hurt me and my reputation. (That was years ago and I doubt it would happen again because I hated the whole situation. I learned that it doesn't matter enough to know I had to lie, even to a liar, to prove what he was doing.)

But... I will not cheat in any manner, someone I am involved with and if my admitting that makes some think I am untruthful or delusional... great! They can believe whatever they want, I would not want them in my life because they are in denial of the goodness, strong convictions and ethics that someone can have within them and would always be expecting the lie or cheat within me. They wouldn't have the ability to trust and I wouldn't want someone who could say that it is normal and acceptable because it is typical, to lie and cheat and might be excusing and justifying themselves at some point.

I will say, I will not lie to anyone unless they are trying to harm me or someone I love and then, it is war because I had to lie to protect someone. I will take that person down legally and without having to lie about what they did. I will not cheat and that works with anything legal to my personal life. That is just the way it is and everyone who has been with me, knows I will not lie or cheat and no matter what went wrong in the relationship, they knew these two things about me and counted on them.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/26/2010 12:51:59 PM

DommeKeliDallas

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You mean BEFORE or AFTER she kicks your butt?