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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 10:48:32 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		Well that's why you won't finding me say "I promise" more than once in a blue moon.

I won't promise unless I know I can follow through. If at all, circumstances change outside of my ability to adapt and follow through, it is my responsibility to do the best I can to make the situation "right" for the person who's not getting what they were promised. I expect the same in return and warn people about telling me anything with "I promise".

boi


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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 10:53:48 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz
Two things strike me about this.

Firstly, I am not convinced many of us go into marriage with the absolute ability to ensure that the vow we make today is something we will be able to live by tomorrow. Personally, I think this sort of 'forever and ever' vow was fine a thousand years ago when neither party was likely to live past 40, but nowadays, when both parties could live to be 90, and married for 70 years, I suspect it is a bit of a task to keep it going. We all understand the vows I am sure, but I suspect none of us realise what they might actually mean in any real sense. This might be short-sighted, but most of us, when it comes to this really are short-sighted. If you know at the age of 30 how you are going to feel about your partner at the age of 70, then you are a truly outstanding human being.

I think we are looking at this in two different ways.  I am coming at it from the standpoint that I am focusing on Me.  I believe you are focusing on how one interacts with another. 

What I am weighing are essentially two different wants.  One being sex and the other being integrity.  That other person in the relationship doesn't have an influence on those.  While I am not everyone and I am sure there are other people who would say differently, for Me, My integrity is always going to be more important than sex.  It doesn't hinge on the other person's health, fidelity, or any other outside influence.  The ability to look Myself in the mirror far surpasses the importance of what I get (or don't get as the case may be) between My legs.

quote:

Secondly, not every long term relationship is a marriage in the conventional sense. Sometimes, long-term relationships are not created in the exchange of vows in a church, public building, or anywhere else for that matter. It doesn't make any practical difference that some relationships evolve from a drunken fumble at a party into a into long term relationship, but sometimes the basis on which a relationship is built may be less than clear, and it may not be possible to point at the vows made in a ceremony and say: 'This is what you contracted to do - now deliver!'

Which is great.  If somebody doesn't have that wonderful "in sickness and in health" clause, they don't have to abide by it.  Anybody who wants to use that as a justification is free to do so.  They are free to seek out partners who will accept this explanation for not meeting their spouse and proceed to fuck their brains out.  At the same time, it won't be with Me.

Personally, I happen to think that people need to get over this idea that kink, sex, or BDSM is an equivalent to EEO.  If someone's got a sad story to tell along the lines of the spouse doesn't understand them or they are ill, I'll empathize with them.  Yet, I'm not required to participate with them.  (Trying to tie it into the original here.)  My personal standards have to be met for Me to agree to do that.  If someone can't verify that their spouse has agreed to that person's participation, that isn't My issue.


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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 10:55:31 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Thank you, LadyPact.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 12:11:41 PM   
Foxwell


Posts: 5
Joined: 8/20/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

i've never been in a situation(and hopefully, never will be) where i was unaware that somebody i played with was in a serious relationship. I have however, been in a position to know that a potential playmate was in a marriage where he wasn't getting his "needs" fulfilled by his wife, but he told me she was ok with him seeing me. I asked for him to set up a meeting between him, his wife, and myself...ya know, since she was fine with it. Never heard from him again. but what should somebody do if the vanilla partner finds out about the BDSM relationship? what would be the best way to handle that?


The best way to handle it is to not end up in that situation in the first place. If you didn't know your partner was in a relationship or that his lover wasn't okay with it then that's different and you've done nothing wrong. In that case your left with about two good choices depending on the circumstances. You can either approach the vanilla one and be honest about the situation, explaining that you weren't aware of any of this  or just break ties and avoid contact. The later option is best reserved for when it's clear your partners lover wouldn't be reasonable with you. (YOU BEEN SLEEPIN WID MAH HUSBIN YOU @#$#) You get the idea.

However, if you were aware of it then your probably better off just breaking ties and rethinking how you involve yourself in others lives. I know people will often say no, be mature, confront her blah blah blah and in a perfect world that probably would be the best course of actions, but that's just not the kind of place we live in. Your more likely to lose some blood than your worries if you told someones wife she her husband was cheating on her for you. I suppose the guilt might bother someone in this situation after just walking away from it, but to be honest. I think that's mostly  ,because nobody knows how to forgive themselves anymore.


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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 1:20:48 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		FR

I'm 45 years old. If / when I get into my next long term relationship, it's a relationship that's gonna be occurring only during my less fit, less healthy years. It's almost guaranteed that if I'm in relationship for the next 20 years, say, there will be health challenges for me. Hell, I've got health challenges right now .. . . . .

It's not some 'theoretical' 70 years together & the last half may go sour . . . . . .

& I'm looking for intense relationship, that's part of what BDSM is to me. It's about an intensity of feeling that I bring to every relationship . . ... No half measures, ya know?

&, 'oops, you're impaired & can't be my ideal fuckmeat now' ain't what I'm looking for . .. . . Who knows, the other half could be the one who can't have sex. Hell, guys are the ones with all the erectile difficulties, do I chuck the bastard out once his wee-wee won't work reliably all the time anymore? Well, no, I wouldn't, cuz that's not how it works for me, but I hope my point is made ...

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 4:38:05 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		ED which can be treated with meds and still doesn't impact his ability to use his hands and mouth and toys is a far cry from Lou Gehrig's Disease where the patient is totally incapable of doing anything including holding hands.

I've known two men whose wives suffered from this. They still worked to pay the bills including the full time nursing care, they did all the work and took their share nursing her. Do I fault them from finding comfort and respite in someone else's arms once a week? Hell no. But telling their wives about this, knowing she couldn't talk to express her feelings? That would be slime in my view.

If the existing partner will not meet any intimacy needs, not sex, not hand holding, not hugs, not even sleep in the same bed. Then they deserve to reap what they sow.


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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 5:09:10 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Perhaps you don't mean for it to sound this way, but are you really saying that someone with ALS is reaping what they've sown? Cuz, wow, harsh . ... .

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

ED which can be treated with meds and still doesn't impact his ability to use his hands and mouth and toys is a far cry from Lou Gehrig's Disease where the patient is totally incapable of doing anything including holding hands.

I've known two men whose wives suffered from this. They still worked to pay the bills including the full time nursing care, they did all the work and took their share nursing her. Do I fault them from finding comfort and respite in someone else's arms once a week? Hell no. But telling their wives about this, knowing she couldn't talk to express her feelings? That would be slime in my view.

If the existing partner will not meet any intimacy needs, not sex, not hand holding, not hugs, not even sleep in the same bed. Then they deserve to reap what they sow.


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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 5:35:08 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		This is a tad off topic - but when my Sir was ill nigh unto death, he offered to find me someone to play with if i wanted/needed it , since he was physically unable to do it. He was cognisant of the fact that i had needs that physically he was unable to fufill.  And i appreciated the heck out of the offer - because it showed me how much he loved me that he would consider offering.



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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 7:44:56 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance
Theres a difference between having a conversation from the sick person bringing it up and sayin hey baby this chemos kicking the CRAP out of me and i get you have needs just be safe and dont tell me...

is different from saying hey my partner is going through chemo and i dont have the balls to talk to her about it, so im going to expose myself and my partner if she lives through this, to an untold amount of diseases, because well im a sleaze ball.

Most of the examples hertz provided were sleazy. If i was sick and could no longer provide for my owner, Id end the romantic relationship with him and hope hed find someone to make him happy, but its different if you talk about it.... and you go behind their back. being dishonest already strains a situation thats in a shitty spot to begin with.



Well I wouldn't end the relationship...I did after all make a vow to love, honor and cherish my husband and I take that seriously. You could argue that by cheating on me he is dishonoring me, but if the situation is that we still love each other very much, and I'm too physically ill to have sex, I would really try to not get upset about him having sex with other people. Him starting a new relationship would be too much for me to handle, but not just sex.

I don't know if I'd rather be told or not...if he didn't tell me in order to spare my feelings and not make me feel guilty for being unable to satisfy him sexually, I'd actually appreciate that. But I wouldn't want him consumed with guilt, and in that case I'd rather he give me the opportunity to be understanding.

I don't know if you're married or not, but when I got married, and said those vows, they weren't just a list of things we'd do for each other, they were a promise that he and I would build a life together, as a team. Obviously I hope that by the time I'm too sick to have sex he's also too old to get it up...lol...but if I end up getting breast cancer in my 40's and our sex life is practically nonexistent, I wouldn't love him any less if he wasn't able to overcome all of his physical needs.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 7:51:24 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		And there is a difference between having this talk and explaining expectations and cheating, nothing in my mind makes cheating okay, I dont care if im in a coma i dont care if i cant talk, i dont care if both my legs have to be amputated or if im brain dead, nothing makes cheating on your partner acceptable or okay

If i get breast cancer, then im going to talk over the options with my partner, if im married at the time, i would expect that for the year or so while i was having chemo hed be faithful, if i found out however that i had ms, id talk it over with my partner rationally.

However if my partner comes home and says honey, your goign through menopause, and i just cant wait, hes sleeze, most of these diseases dont come on suddenly, they are things that have stages, and in the early stages is when discussions should be had.

If i get married i will sadly have a prenuptial that has an infidelity clause that says any unagreed sexual relations will forfeit 80% of assets to the faithful partner.

but then with the way marriage is today ill likely never get married.....

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 8:05:28 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

If i get married i will sadly have a prenuptial that has an infidelity clause that says any unagreed sexual relations will forfeit 80% of assets to the faithful partner.

but then with the way marriage is today ill likely never get married.....


That's totally your decision. Marriage isn't for everybody and not all marriages are built on the same foundation. It's whatever works for the 2 people involved.

Personally I would feel very uncomfortable sitting down and having a discussion about whether my husband can have sex with other people and what the boundaries are. I'd be even less likely to want to have that discussion if I were just diagnosed with cancer or any other terminal illness...I'd have other things on my mind and I would want him to be supportive.

If you would never tolerate infidelity in your relationship you have every right to set that boundary but it's a bit much to judge everyone as a sleaze no matter what their situation. For all you know, you could be more upset about the guy's infidelity than his own wife is.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 8:10:07 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Personally I would feel very uncomfortable sitting down and having a discussion about whether my husband can have sex with other people and what the boundaries are.


Honey, if you can't have that conversation with someone you'd consider marrying, you shouldn't be marrying him. Not being able to talk or discuss your boundaries in a relationship is a serious problem. Fidelity issues would only be the symptom.

boi


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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 8:44:46 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

This is a tad off topic - but when my Sir was ill nigh unto death, he offered to find me someone to play with if i wanted/needed it , since he was physically unable to do it. He was cognisant of the fact that i had needs that physically he was unable to fufill.  And i appreciated the heck out of the offer - because it showed me how much he loved me that he would consider offering.


Greetings kiwisub12:

I share in some ways with what you posted in your entry. It seems related as my companion surely knew what she was saying when she offered her love in a way that condoned my taking another female to serve my sexual desires.

When my beloved companion was dealing with the challenges with fighting cancer, prior to her passing, she too demonstrated her love toward myself in a selfless manner by offering this to myself. She knowingly encouraged me to take another female unto me for sexual gratification. Of course I did have sexual needs but to have taken another female unto me would not have sufficed. What satisfied me was not going to be transferable with another.

Her sound(s), touch, heart, body and soul missing left me colder than a frozen iceberg. While another female could have full well satisfied my sexual desires there would have been a haunting distant from my heart to hers. Our love surpassed physicality, indeed.

Even still the selfless love demonstrated by my beloved companion indeed did come to thought in reading your posted entry.

Take good care of you!

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 8:46:29 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Honey, if you can't have that conversation with someone you'd consider marrying, you shouldn't be marrying him. Not being able to talk or discuss your boundaries in a relationship is a serious problem. Fidelity issues would only be the symptom.

boi



Too late, we're already married.

I'm actually pretty sure he knows where I stand on this from passing comments in conversations we've had. I'm just not the "let's sit down and have a discussion in graphic detail" type of person.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/23/2010 8:52:28 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

  Celibacy is not a death sentence.  If it were, military spouses would be dropping off like flies when active duty members were deployed.



This is why there is bingo night at the NCO club, LadyP.

It may seem I'm lining myself up to be the defender of the cheaters here, but I'm really just advocating for a smaller brush when we paint them. Only two people ever really know what goes on in a marriage.

Cheating is mostly about two humans getting horny, and somehow, quite unexpectedly, their tingly bits wind up rubbing together. Just happens. How much reflection the cheater/s give it after depends on the individual personality. The big decision then gets made based on facts only known to the cheater, and another decision is made by the third party based on the person in the mirror in the morning.

I have, on occasion, assisted married women in their infidelities. Looking in the mirror after getting picked up at the club, screwed into exhaustion, and dropped off near the barracks by an E-8's wife, who had a taste for E-2, I was quite ok with the big stupid grin on my face.

We can say that sex isn't a need all day long, but that's not a valid argument. Beer isn't a need either, but marriages get broken by alcoholism on a regular basis.

Some people look out and see a big, bright line, swear they would never cross it, and then rationalize themselves right into the marriage bed anyway. Or they get suckered across the line, cuz lust-crazed submissive males are capable of just about anything in pursuit of twisted nipples they can't get at home. Others don't see such sharp lines, just a murky region where the sex comes with a lower price tag, and an increased risk of getting your ass kicked.

As always, my advice to men in the market, if a married woman wants to fuck you to get even with her cheating husband/boyfriend, don't ever let that opportunity pass. It can be epic.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/24/2010 7:11:12 AM   
Firebirdseeking


Posts: 477
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline 		Cheating is NOT about 2 people getting "horny", and having it "just happen".  That is an incredibly naive perspective.  For one, men and women cheat for different reasons.  Men cheat for sex, and women for the excitement, if you believe the research.  However,  pain and shattered lives that often result.  Kids are often part of this.  You are naive.

Moreover, no one has to get married or stay married.  However, when you take those vows, no matter what, they say "foresaking all others".  If that is  a promise a person can no longer in good faith keep, then that person ideally would behave with integrity and deal with it appropriately.  You seem to feel OK with being part of someone else's unhappiness, as if you just dropped into a grocery store, got what you wanted, and left. 

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/24/2010 9:41:23 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
As always, my advice to men in the market, if a married woman wants to fuck you to get even with her cheating husband/boyfriend, don't ever let that opportunity pass. It can be epic.


Sod that for a lark.  Been there, done it.  Twice, in fact - with women who'd assured me that they were separated and certain to divorce. I was much younger and undoubtedly naive. 

In both cases I was dumped and the women went back to their husbands. 
The trouble is, a woman in that position will cast you in the role of rake and tempting devil.  You either provide excitement (correct, I think, Firebirdseeking), or you provide nothing that's of interest.  'Devilish rakes' don't have any feelings to hurt - that's not part of their character.  I was hurt quite badly and in neither case could the women begin to understand - or even care - why I felt that way. 

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/24/2010 9:59:24 AM   
PeanutTigerinBox


Posts: 1624
Status: offline 		For me it depends.

If I am booked as a pro sub then it ain't my business if they are married or not. It's their choice what they decide to do and when they decide to book someone like me then it is up to them.

On a private level I see it differently, there I would not want to be involved with someone who is in a relationship. But that's also as values differ, as a pro sub I am providing a service and leave my emotions out of it, whereas as a private person I prefer only to play with potential partners and have no interest to get laid just for his sake to run off afterwards.

As a pro sub it happened in the past that the wife from C-Dom did catch him out as she found a sms from me...at that time I did not know he was in a relationship and I replied his sms as he had bombarded me with sms...when we got back in touch years after our first meetings he told me that they split now. Recently we met again where he told me that my sms wasn't the only one his wife found in the following years which lead to it that then at some point she chucked him out.

Whilst he isn't the happiest bunny about living on his own now at least he was considered that he screwed it up and not his wife and therefore accepted that it is up to him to buy a new place and not to expect from her to move out.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/24/2010 10:11:40 AM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

However,  pain and shattered lives that often result.  Kids are often part of this.  You are naive.


I'll have to tell you the pain and shattered lives part happens way before the cheating does. I got a very clear demonstration.

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RE: When the un-knowing partner finds out... - 8/24/2010 9:07:01 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

You are naive.





Now that isn't an accusation that comes my way very often, Bird. LOL! If you want to accuse me of rationalizing my way across a social taboo, guilty. I've rationalized my way across a lot of those. Did you hear the one about how men aren't supposed to hurt women?

quote:

You seem to feel OK with being part of someone else's unhappiness


Judgemental much? The Buddha teaches that all life is suffering. I am both alive, and definitely, not the Buddha.

Some people want to draw a line of taboo at the ring and the bed. Some of those are complete fundamentalists on the subject. Another view is that sometimes a sexual relationship is based on nothing more than sex. (Sex is an awful lot of fun, when done properly, you know!) A one night stand with a married woman (or man) is just a one-night stand. (Some people are opposed to those as well, of course). A fling is a fling. Having your ex-buddy's soon to be ex-wife strip in your living room and stay for four days is a grand adventure. It's very easy to rationalize a new big bright line of "cheating" at making it an emotion based relationship.

That's where Peon screwed it up. He thought it meant something.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 80
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