quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Horse hockey,

There are plenty of examples.

And I find it interesting that you are trying to claim that the conversion of a Christian church to a Moslem mosque doesn't count.  In what universe doesn't that count?

How about Dome of the Rock?

The entire concept is well known and documented in history.  Maybe there aren't many internet cites because it's the kind of thing that hasn't (until now) been something that is regularly discussed in non-professional circles.

And you are attempting to short circuit anyone who posts or writes about it in anything other than a professional historical site, by attempting to classify anyone who researches into books, and posts them on a non-pro site.

Weak.  Weak as hell.

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In the minds of those who lost someone, it could make all the difference. A random act, such as Oklahoma, with only a few people, can be... viewed as an isolated attack. This was planned, methodically, for years, before being implemented, with disasterous results.

No, not every Muslim is a terrorist. But we do give victims of an attack time to heal. The healing of those involved in this attack is still an ongoing process. This wasnt a random act, but a methodically planned one. Some of the missing have never been found. Im not sure there will ever be enough healing to repair the damage from that day. But, it does strike me as slightly insensitive to demand that people just "get over it".

Do you think McVeigh was coming back from the grocery store and thought "Oh! While I'm here I should blow that up!" Considering most people don't just have an exploding van on hand, I would say this took at least some degree of planning.

and your remark about "just get over it" is just what I mean.  The point is that they are misplacing the blame.  "just get over it" only makes sense if you believe that Islam was the culprit. An evil organization was the culprit.  If it was a monument to Al-Qaeda I would be a little more sympathetic.

I need to go buy pickled eggs! It's hard to get away from you people!

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

Well it shouldn't.  It should sound like a violent political stunt.  9/11 made us go over there and blow them up lots.  Besides...

Sheik Mohammed is not the one building the mosque!  It's a peaceful guy, appointed by a republican!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


LOL Your a joke as per usual. You make a claim then admit you cant back it up in anyway shape or form. Archer claimed Hagia Sophia was a built as a victory mosque, it wasnt. The Muslims used it for prayer, just as the Christians did at Cordoba, you skipped that bit.

As for the Dome Of The Rock, I explained that in my post, the site hadnt had a building on it for 700 years. You do know that Islam venerates the Jewish Prophets dont you which is why the Dome was built. ?

quote:

Um.. no. First of all, it's two blocks away. Second, think about what you know of recruitment for a country's military. Isn't it usually along the lines "Serve your country" or "Help fight off this threat to our way of life." In this country, they say "Join the Army because in return we'll give you benefits and help you learn a skill for when you get out." But not once have I ever heard "join the military because the other side is pussies!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Read my second post on the subject.

Go fish.

It is apparent that your mind is set in concrete, and that  you will ignore any information which contradicts your ideological beliefs.

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: footsniffa

Wow, the amount of ignorance and bigotry in this thread is fucking astounding. I never thought I'd see teabaggers on CM.

"flying carpets"? "convert to christianity"? "stay out of our country"?

Yeah, go ahead and say you're not bigoted after making statements like that.

And stop being played like a bunch of fucking rubes. This center has been planned for a long fucking time. Just last year many of the blowhards who are now stirring up the hate of the pasty white folks with their fanny packs and lawn chairs were praising the Imam and his plans for the center (Ingraham, Beck). This has been coming down the pipe for years, and muslims have been praying in the building since it was purchased. The hallowed ground that was the Burlington Coat Factory that went out of business is thankfully being developed as it had been on the market since about that day we'll never forget.

The only reason this is suddenly an issue is some of the hucksters found another way to squeeze some more money out of the rubes' fixed incomes and unemployment checks. Others think this is a great issue for November too but this is mainly the rubes getting suckered yet again.

Gee.  Such tolerance and love ...

You said

.... Wow, the amount of ignorance and bigotry in this thread is fucking astounding.

I read:

... a bunch of fucking rubes ...

... pasty white folks with their fanny packs and lawn chairs ...

... the rubes' fixed incomes and unemployment checks.

... the rubes getting suckered ...

Yeah, I see a lot of ignorance and bigotry on this thread, too.

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In the minds of those who lost someone, it could make all the difference. A random act, such as Oklahoma, with only a few people, can be... viewed as an isolated attack. This was planned, methodically, for years, before being implemented, with disasterous results.

No, not every Muslim is a terrorist. But we do give victims of an attack time to heal. The healing of those involved in this attack is still an ongoing process. This wasnt a random act, but a methodically planned one. Some of the missing have never been found. Im not sure there will ever be enough healing to repair the damage from that day. But, it does strike me as slightly insensitive to demand that people just "get over it".

Do you think McVeigh was coming back from the grocery store and thought "Oh! While I'm here I should blow that up!" Considering most people don't just have an exploding van on hand, I would say this took at least some degree of planning.

and your remark about "just get over it" is just what I mean.  The point is that they are misplacing the blame.  "just get over it" only makes sense if you believe that Islam was the culprit. An evil organization was the culprit.  If it was a monument to Al-Qaeda I would be a little more sympathetic.

I need to go buy pickled eggs! It's hard to get away from you people!

Even the most naive of people can see the difference between three people planning the bombing of one building wouldnt not take even one fifth the planning as 4 targets planned overseas.

No one is saying Muslims cannot pray in this country. They are saying just not at that site. Again, it matters little to me where. But obviously this is a huge issue for those who lost loved ones there.

Again, why are you ignoring them?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The point still remains few Churches, if any, were destroyed to make way for Mosques. Hagia Sophia for intsance had all images of the human form removed, the architecture was otherwise untouched to a large degree. Cordoba was built over a period of 200 years, it was also built by someone not even in Spain at the time of the Islamic conquest, yet that is on your list.

If anyones mind is set in concrete, it is those who claim the Mosques were all built as victory Mosques. Thats far from the actuality, for the most part. The same also happened in the reverse, yet I doubt you will call the Cordoba Cathederal a victory Cathederal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


As lucky and others have pointed out ... no one is saying all mosques are "victory mosque".  Why do you continue to insist that is the case?


Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

Because it doesn't fit in the nice, neat, racist mentality that allows those supporting the thing to immediately sideline and dismiss anyone who has a problem with a shrine dedicated to the religion responsible. They ignore the muslims who speak out against this building in this spot, the people who lost family and speak out against this building in this spot, the 71% of New Yorkers who are against this building in this spot.

it is that fucking simple.

It is the height of hypocrisy among leftists to appear blind to the insensitivity because they are the one group who will scream it to the mountain tops over just about any fucking issue. There's a difference here though. There's one reason and one reason only this debate rages. It has nothing to do with islam, nothing to do with a love or tolerance of mulsims, nothing to do with bigotry. And that reason is Obama. When the friggin thing became a talking point, Obama was attacked by right-wing pundits for his comments. Folk on the left have been acting like slobbering damned pigs ever since, tripping over themselves and foaming at the mouth to frame anyone who feels this mosque is not appropriate at that spot as racists, promoters of hatred, phobics, dumb asses and fringe elements.

The fringe is easy to see in this debate. Polls show that an overwhelming majority of Americans feel this structure does not belong at or near ground zero. This includes 54% of Democrats, 45% of liberals, 72% of whites and 58% of non-whites. In other words, opposition crosses political lines, social lines, racial lines - pick a fucking line. It crosses it, except maybe fringe. You know the opposing fringe to that who never questioned GWB's antics. This fringe is righteously indignant because of politics.

The analogy of the OP was wrong. It uses the same tactic in the Islamaphobia thread uses by establishing any other feeling as one rooted in bigotry or racism. And it's done cause those are the trump cards. And ya gotta wonder, given the analogy used by the OP if the 58 percent in the paragraph above are somehow bigoted too. I mean, really, we're not just talking pasty white folk here.

It is an absolute crock of shit. Take muslim out of it, islam out of it, re-write it with any group you want, sanitize it of any known collaboration of people and it boils down to a monument to the group that caused so much death and destruction. If you can't see the insensitivity in it, you're either blind or so intent upon protecting your party you don't realize that hypocrite just got a new face in the dictionary.

It's the one you see in the mirror.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: footsniffa

Wow, the amount of ignorance and bigotry in this thread is fucking astounding. I never thought I'd see teabaggers on CM.

"flying carpets"? "convert to christianity"? "stay out of our country"?

Yeah, go ahead and say you're not bigoted after making statements like that.

And stop being played like a bunch of fucking rubes. This center has been planned for a long fucking time. Just last year many of the blowhards who are now stirring up the hate of the pasty white folks with their fanny packs and lawn chairs were praising the Imam and his plans for the center (Ingraham, Beck). This has been coming down the pipe for years, and muslims have been praying in the building since it was purchased. The hallowed ground that was the Burlington Coat Factory that went out of business is thankfully being developed as it had been on the market since about that day we'll never forget.

The only reason this is suddenly an issue is some of the hucksters found another way to squeeze some more money out of the rubes' fixed incomes and unemployment checks. Others think this is a great issue for November too but this is mainly the rubes getting suckered yet again.

Gee.  Such tolerance and love ...

You said

.... Wow, the amount of ignorance and bigotry in this thread is fucking astounding.

I read:

... a bunch of fucking rubes ...

... pasty white folks with their fanny packs and lawn chairs ...

... the rubes' fixed incomes and unemployment checks.

... the rubes getting suckered ...

Yeah, I see a lot of ignorance and bigotry on this thread, too.

Firm

ah the sweet smell of hypocrisy

quote:

ORIGINAL: footsniffa

Quickest ignore ever

quote:

ORIGINAL: footsniffa


Quickest ignore ever

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: footsniffa


Quickest ignore ever

Yawn

quote:

ORIGINAL: footsniffa

Hey now, I'm the only one allowed to mock here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan


Because it doesn't fit in the nice, neat, racist mentality that allows those supporting the thing to immediately sideline and dismiss anyone who has a problem with a shrine dedicated to the religion responsible. They ignore the muslims who speak out against this building in this spot, the people who lost family and speak out against this building in this spot, the 71% of New Yorkers who are against this building in this spot.

it is that fucking simple.

quote:



It is the height of hypocrisy among leftists to appear blind to the insensitivity because they are the one group who will scream it to the mountain tops over just about any fucking issue. There's a difference here though. There's one reason and one reason only this debate rages. It has nothing to do with islam, nothing to do with a love or tolerance of mulsims, nothing to do with bigotry. And that reason is Obama. When the friggin thing became a talking point, Obama was attacked by right-wing pundits for his comments. Folk on the left have been acting like slobbering damned pigs ever since, tripping over themselves and foaming at the mouth to frame anyone who feels this mosque is not appropriate at that spot as racists, promoters of hatred, phobics, dumb asses and fringe elements.

quote:



The fringe is easy to see in this debate. Polls show that an overwhelming majority of Americans feel this structure does not belong at or near ground zero. This includes 54% of Democrats, 45% of liberals, 72% of whites and 58% of non-whites. In other words, opposition crosses political lines, social lines, racial lines - pick a fucking line. It crosses it, except maybe fringe. You know the opposing fringe to that who never questioned GWB's antics. This fringe is righteously indignant because of politics.

quote:


The analogy of the OP was wrong. It uses the same tactic in the Islamaphobia thread uses by establishing any other feeling as one rooted in bigotry or racism. And it's done cause those are the trump cards. And ya gotta wonder, given the analogy used by the OP if the 58 percent in the paragraph above are somehow bigoted too. I mean, really, we're not just talking pasty white folk here.

quote:


It is an absolute crock of shit. Take muslim out of it, islam out of it, re-write it with any group you want, sanitize it of any known collaboration of people and it boils down to a monument to the group that caused so much death and destruction. If you can't see the insensitivity in it, you're either blind or so intent upon protecting your party you don't realize that hypocrite just got a new face in the dictionary.

quote:


It's the one you see in the mirror.