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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 11:46:19 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I don't think that "legality" is the issue, that's just a smokescreen. We all know--or SHOULD know---that we are taking a calculated risk when we do what we do.

If I was at a party at a private home and found that there were CHILDREN on the other side of that door marked "do not enter" I would be OUT of there in a hot minute because I do not believe in introducing five year olds to kink. I would be FURIOUS that I was not notified of the fact that there were kids in the house, and you bet I would let the hosts know.

I have seen discussions elsewhere about children at MUNCHES, and the general consensus was OMG TEH HORROR! Which is better, having your little ones listen to you talk about kink, or having them listen, and perhaps watch?

ETA--yes, I am just fuelling discussion here.

< Message edited by LadyHibiscus -- 9/21/2010 11:49:06 AM >

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 12:11:23 PM   
DisenchantedLife


Posts: 193
Status: offline 		I think it was wrong to walk out than post on the internet LATER.

IMO - the right thing would have been to find the host right then and there and ask if Everyone knew who was in the bedroom. I would make sure everyone knew at THAT moment there were minors on the premises. From my experiences, minors do a terrible job at listening. Whose to say they would stay in the bedroom and not come out for........ something to drink......... something to eat......... to ask a parent a question...... etc. I'd be more concerned with the minors coming out and being traumatized. My moral code would have me telling everyone right there on the spot and then letting them decide for themselves. And if the general consensus was that it was OK - try and find a way that my conscious would feel slightly better. IE suggesting an adult (or adults taking turns) staying in the room to monitor the minors. At least to protect them as much as possible. Or perhaps asking the parents if there was not a better place the minors could go instead? I guess I would try to problem solve on the spot.

I could not and would not walk out and leave the situation as is. I would feel that a wrong is being done and by simply leaving, I am an accomplice to the wrong. I am allowing it. So for me. I could not leave if there were minors on the property. I'd have to fix the situation and then leave. And if nothing else - go baby sit myself because I believe that while I make poor decisions and suffer my consequences - minors don't have much a choice. I would much rather ME suffering the consequences than the minors.


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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 12:23:48 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Having read some of the information provided on another site, I am absolutely astonished that, with the number of attendees at this event, that another arrangement couldn't have been made so that the minors were not in the house.  How hard would it have been for someone to have stepped up and volunteered to skip this party and have the kids stay overnight at their home?  Many groups do this anyway as a way to allow single parents attend BDSM functions.  It's simply a slumber party for the kids and people take turns.  

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 12:38:29 PM   
LadyRian


Posts: 486
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		I definitely agree.  What were these people thinking? 
At the very least, get a sitter, and a hotel room. Have the participants chip in to pay for it, if  for some reason the cost might be too steep. 


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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 2:51:06 PM   
D0M1NANT


Posts: 32
Joined: 3/18/2010
Status: offline 		Alot can be gained from reading the posts here.. Personally, when children are involved in the relationship I have behaviors that I will follow and rules that I will NOT. With little ears around, I am Daddy, not Master.. It would not be good for little ones to go to school and tell teacher that Master told mommy.. This is My way of avoiding that possibility. But I will not HIDE the lifestyle from children either. When questions arise, and they do constantly, I weigh the question with the little one involved. I then explain the answer in terms I am sure the little one asking will understand, and take it from there. I would host parties with minors in the house, but BELIEVE I would keep a very close eye on their location.. (Mind that does not mean they would be involved in any way..) But anyone coming into the house would be informed about their presence beforehand. As for the people leaving the party.. I can agree that without prior notice it would be wrong to stay. I would have left too.. What would have kept someone with such inclinations from slipping into the room where they were..? WAY too much backlash there...But thats just Me..

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 3:45:45 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		There are three sides to every story--in this case, the host's, the poster's and the truth that lies somewhere between the two.

I won't belabor the issue of children and play parties--I think the views expressed here clearly reflect mine as well--they should not have been in the house. Not only to protect the guests in case something should happen at the party, but the kids should be protected as well from unscreened strangers that may be in that house, and won't respect a paper sign on a door.  [Note to RS: even if the children did not witness anything, the authorities, depending on local laws, can still charge those present for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. I've seen parents face charges when there are drugs and other illegal items in the home, regardless of whether or not the child saw anything]

However, the second side to this--the person upset about the presence of children should have taken the matter up with the host, and if the host refused to divulge the "house guests" presence with the other attendees, then there may have other, more appropriate ways to alert other guests to the presence of minors.  An anonymous post was certainly not the best way to approach. 

Not getting support from the others?  Of course not. In this case, if you piss off/disagree with the host, you lose your (possibly only?) "public" play space. Some folks don't have a moral compass--or they just lack the comprehension of just how many things could really go wrong. 

I don't ignore my moral compass--but one improper action on someone else's part doesn't warrant one from me in return.

edited for typos--I gotta start wearing my damn glasses.


< Message edited by hausboy -- 9/21/2010 3:47:44 PM >

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 4:10:35 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I would not ignore MY moral compass to get my kink on, although I might ignore YOURS...


Good answer.

OP - I would not ignore my own moral compass to get my kink on. I would have been very uncomfortable at the party and would have left immediately and likely never have returned to subsequent parties even with the guarantee that minors would be nowhere on the property. I thought the anonymous message to the group was just plain tacky. This is not some whistle blower situation where a career might be sacrificed. I would not have support the host in any way. I don't agree with what they did. Based on your accounts of the situation and of the outpouring of support the host has received I would likely no longer be a part of that group in any way.

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 4:22:55 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I ignored my moral compass a few times when I was young. It bothered me every single day till I could no longer look at myself in the mirror. I changed it by taking back my morals and from that day forward I have never ignored my moral compass and never will and if there ever comes a point where I feel that is about to happen I will walk away and never look back.

My morals and values are who I am and I can't be me and happy without them.

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 5:02:52 PM   
DommeJennice


Posts: 13
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline 		I have to admit, I have not seen children at a BDSM event before.  The best the OP did was leave.  I would further suggest not to contact them via internet or other sites because it may cause other problems.
When I was new to the life, and exploring things, I knew in my mind it was wrong.  I just did not have the "will" to leave it until it got into the way of my religious beliefs and had to make a decision to walk away. 
I was trained in SM techniques in a Dungeon for a couple of months.  Each time I went there, I had the strangest feeling that we were going to be invaded by the cops at anytime.  It just did not feel right to me.   Eventually, it closed, and I found out a lot about things.
No children at BDSM sites.   I do not allow anyone under 18 on any site I belong to.  Speaking of which, it is back to the cafe for me.
 
DommeJennice

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 5:18:04 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		To answer the question.... I don't really do morals. Ethics and honor as I see them yes, morals no.

As far as the incident described goes, I have always felt that once you had children, their well being came first.
Your own needs and desires second.

You can lock a kid in a padded cell and the clever child will find a way out. you can have a stereo blaring and some noise will still get through.

I would call this horse shit parenting.

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 5:23:12 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		If I am to be honest (and why not be, since none of you know me lol) I'd have to say that yes, I have severely bent what I'd always considered right and wrong to be where I am. But to me it is worth it and it turns out I'm very good at rationalizing.

It doesn't actively hurt anyone but it has the potential to, I think though if it comes down to that choice I will actually be unable to rationalize going on and I will walk away. I'm not positive, but that is what I feel I will do.

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 6:01:51 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		i don't know if the link still exists, i would like to see it. However, i believe i know which play party that the OP was talking about as a friend of mine attended that party, not knowing that there were minor children in attendance. If it is the group that i know of, there is a very strong group dynamic that the leaders of the group can do no wrong. For my friend's part, he is never planning on attending any more functions at this location ever again.

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 6:10:26 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I would be extremely pissed at having not been told there were children in the house as I would not attend a party where I knew there were going to be kids.
This is bugs me. They put everyone at a higher risk without their consent.

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/21/2010 9:00:00 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		DommeJennice, at a kinky street fair at the end of September in SF, there's kids there, usually little, like 4 or 5, The parents feel there's no harm in bringing dear sweet little johnny or Suzzy out to kinky events with nudity and everything.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeJennice

I have to admit, I have not seen children at a BDSM event before. 
 
DommeJennice


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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/22/2010 1:22:24 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus


quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

what i am saying is that some people have a house that is plenty big enough to host a party while the nanny in the granny flat en-suite behind the double locked fire door looks after the children

i do not jump to the conclusion that this is a totally rediculous unsafe party




Very true. I read the stuff over on Fet, and the description given was that the kids were in their bedroom, while the party went on allll around them. I guess there was a baby monitor, no adults watching them.


i generally do not read links... if that was the case then it sounds wrong indeed,
so why would a couple like this have any 'standing' in their local community in the first place?

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/22/2010 1:25:44 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja
i generally do not read links... if that was the case then it sounds wrong indeed,
so why would a couple like this have any 'standing' in their local community in the first place?


Maybe because this is their first screw-up? Or maybe they just hadn't been caught yet or called on their shit? Maybe they are fantastic group organizers when it doesn't involve their personal home?

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/22/2010 1:53:51 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		The way i read the op it sounded like they had regularly parties at their home
it sounds like the venue was just totally unsuitable

< Message edited by ranja -- 9/22/2010 1:56:14 AM >

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/22/2010 2:07:18 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Like I said... maybe they haven't been caught. Maybe this is the first time they were called on it. Maybe they don't actually have the kids there often. We don't know if the kids were always there or not.

*shrugs* It's entirely possible for someone to have achieved good standing in a community and then just screw up.

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/22/2010 3:43:25 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Using FR

To me, this is just another example of why 'references' don't mean shit to me.

There is a whole crowd of people that think these people are just fabulous. Yet I wouldn't want anything to do with them.

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RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? - 9/22/2010 3:44:20 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		The only BDSM gatherings I have seen children at have been family style low key munches which were advertised as such and people were told to bring the whole family if they chose to. We have even taken our two snow dogs for a BBQ family munch. These events and similar in pagan gatherings are designed to be social and to allow family to meet our alternative friends. Even with my own pagan group and others I have controlled in past decades, training nights would possibly see children in another part of the house which meant no nudity but lots of merriment. On serious ritual nights and especially on the eight festivals or Initiations these were and are done in a location away from the home front and no children allowed.

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